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Malastow vital records
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Lizo128



Joined: 04 Oct 2016
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:28 pm      Post subject: Malastow vital records
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Hello-
Can anyone help me with some links for record searches for village Małastów in the district of Gmina Sękowa, Gorlice County, Lesser Poland Voivodeship?

Thank you!
Liz
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:27 pm      Post subject: Re: Malastow vital records
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Lizo128 wrote:
Hello-
Can anyone help me with some links for record searches for village Małastów in the district of Gmina Sękowa, Gorlice County, Lesser Poland Voivodeship?

Thank you!
Liz


Liz,

it does not cover 1867.
http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Przemysl/dekanat%20Gorlice/

Gilberto
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Lizo128



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Location: Seattle, WA

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:31 pm      Post subject: Re: Malastow vital records
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Magroski49 wrote:
Lizo128 wrote:
Hello-
Can anyone help me with some links for record searches for village Małastów in the district of Gmina Sękowa, Gorlice County, Lesser Poland Voivodeship?

Thank you!
Liz


Liz,

it does not cover 1867.
http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Przemysl/dekanat%20Gorlice/

Gilberto
Thank you Gilberto!
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:57 am      Post subject:
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Hi Liz,

Is it possible that your 3x-great-grandfather was Greek Catholic? I ask this because when I look for vital records for Malastow on szukajwarchivach.pl there are many records from the Greek Catholic church there, although sadly there are no scans posted there (yet).

Go here: http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/search?q=Ma%C5%82ast%C3%B3w&order= and where it gives you Search Options, click on “vital records and civil records” and click on “refine.” What comes up are a series of records for births “urodzenia,” marriages “malzenstwa,” and deaths “zgony” for the Greek Catholic “greckocatolickie” church in Malastow, Gmina Sekowa. If they do come back to this and add scans from the church books (as one finds very often on this website) then you can see that there is a grouping of records there that would include your 3x-great-grandfather’s year of birth.

Now, just for fun, un-click “vital records and civil records” and instead choose “only units/collections with scans” and “refine.” The first entry that comes up “Dorf Malastow…” (German for village of Malastow) is a very lovely, detailed map of the village from 1850. You have to page through the 11 digital images to see it all.

I took a quick look on FamilySearch.org to see if there were Greek Catholic church records from either Elmira or Syracuse; no luck there. Of course, if Cecylia was Roman Catholic rather than Greek Catholic, the children might have been raised Roman Catholic.

On another note, Demko may be a nickname for Damian. You may see church records for him using this name. And perhaps you should also question whether Cecylia is anglicized from something.

Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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Lizo128



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Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:47 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks Sophia- The map was awesome, I downloaded it. I did send a record request yesterday and this is what I received back:

In response to a letter to inform you that in the book of births Greek Catholic town to Małastów in 1867 is not recorded no child named Szopa.
However, after the date of 21.12.1866 r. Recorded the entry of the birth of Daniel Szopa, son of Theodore and Rosalie Szopa Kirtak.
I do not know whether the name of Daniel in this case can translate into Demko.
=====

A few thoughts on this. He did go by Dan or Daniel in the US. (I believe the 'Den' on the naturalization was recorder error) The birth year is one off.. that's fine, most of his records have been inconsistent so it is still plausible. But if his birth name in the church record is DANIEL, it's hard to reconcile with DEMKO on the passenger manifest. Now I don't know which one is possibly him, or if both records are for him. They did attend Russian Orthodox Ukrainian church in Minnesota, not Roman Catholic. the 1787 Cadastral record shows families of Szopa and Kirtak in Malastow. http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/new/187.htm
Any thoughts on Demko vs. Daniel?
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:41 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Liz,
You ask for my thoughts on Demko vs. Daniel.
I do not know whom you contacted yesterday for your record request - - someone in Poland? It seems to be, from the way their response is written. So here is what I think. I think they were responding to you in English. For example, you see that this Daniel Szopa's father's name is given to you as Theodore. It would not have said "Theodore" in the original record; Theodore is English. If the records were in Polish, it would have said Teodor. If in Latin, it would have said Theodorus or something like that. So the simple fact that you are told Theodore says to me that the person writing to you has also given you Daniel, in English. So, you do not know how the name is rendered in the original document. In short, this may indeed be your 3x-great-grandfather, and there may not be any conflict with the Demko on the passenger list.
What do you think?
Sophia
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:27 am      Post subject:
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Liz,
I should add that Demko is a spelling that we have from whoever indexed the Baltimore arrival records. I look at the handwritten manifest and, sure, it looks like Demko but maybe the K is actually something else. Just keeping an open mind...
Best,
Sophia
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:06 am      Post subject: Demko vs. Daniel or ?
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Searching for etymology of Demko:

http://www.genezanazwisk.pl/content/demko
It says:
Personal name Demko, already noted in 1424, has the following potential etymology: 1. name Demitr (= Dmitri), 2. Name Demian (= Damian), 3. slang definition of dem = smoke, see. K. Rymut, names of the Poles. Historical and etymological dictionary, Kraków 1999, Vol. I, p. 130.

There is a wiki page in Polish gathering given names written in various languages
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odpowiedniki_imion_w_r%C3%B3%C5%BCnych_j%C4%99zykach

Sophia wrote:
Quote:
I look at the handwritten manifest and, sure, it looks like Demko but maybe the K is actually something else.


Reading in tea's leaves: if the original given name is Demitr, then its handwritten version, i.e. the "strange sequence of 3 letters" at the end may be anything easier to spell, and Demko is a very good candidate.

There is some logic in subsequent transformation. Demko to Dem/Den, then to Dan, tha last one beeing commonly used as a substitute to Daniel in the US.

Best,
Elzbieta
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Lizo128



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Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:24 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Hi Liz,
You ask for my thoughts on Demko vs. Daniel.
I do not know whom you contacted yesterday for your record request - - someone in Poland? It seems to be, from the way their response is written. So here is what I think. I think they were responding to you in English. For example, you see that this Daniel Szopa's father's name is given to you as Theodore. It would not have said "Theodore" in the original record; Theodore is English. If the records were in Polish, it would have said Teodor. If in Latin, it would have said Theodorus or something like that. So the simple fact that you are told Theodore says to me that the person writing to you has also given you Daniel, in English. So, you do not know how the name is rendered in the original document. In short, this may indeed be your 3x-great-grandfather, and there may not be any conflict with the Demko on the passenger list.
What do you think?
Sophia


Here is the letter from Poland:
Pani
Elizabeth
Nasz znak: OS.6344.342.2016 Data:2016.10.11

W odpowiedzi na pismo informuję, że w księdze urodzeń wyznania greckokatolickiego dla miejscowości Małastów w roku 1867 nie jest odnotowane żadne dziecko o nazwisku Szopa.
Natomiast po datą 21.12.1866 r. odnotowany jest wpis o urodzeniu Daniel Szopa, syna Teodora Szopa i Rozalii Kirtak.
Nie wiem czy imię Daniel można w tym przypadku przetłumaczyć na Demko.
Jeżeli chciałaby Pani otrzymać skan tego wpisu z księgi metrykalne elektronicznie to proszę wpłacić 8 zł (pln) na konto Archiwum państwowego w Rzeszowie.
- bank: Narodowy Bank Polski Oddział Okręgowy w Rzeszowie
- numer konta PL 51 1010 1528 0025 2522 3100 0000
- kod BIC (Swift): NBPLPLPW (do przelewów zagranicznych)
- adnotacja: OS.6344.342.2016
Skan zostanie przesłany elektronicznie po otrzymaniu potwierdzenia wpłaconej kwoty.

dr Stanisław Dobrowolski
kierownik Oddziału w Sanoku
Archiwum Państwowego w Rzeszowie
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:08 am      Post subject:
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Lizo128 wrote:

Here is the letter from Poland:
Pani
Elizabeth
Nasz znak: OS.6344.342.2016 Data:2016.10.11

W odpowiedzi na pismo informuję, że w księdze urodzeń wyznania greckokatolickiego dla miejscowości Małastów w roku 1867 nie jest odnotowane żadne dziecko o nazwisku Szopa.
Natomiast po datą 21.12.1866 r. odnotowany jest wpis o urodzeniu Daniel Szopa, syna Teodora Szopa i Rozalii Kirtak.
Nie wiem czy imię Daniel można w tym przypadku przetłumaczyć na Demko.
...


and
Quote:

the 1787 Cadastral record shows families of Szopa and Kirtak in Malastow. http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/new/187.htm


Liz,

There is no doubt that the original Polish record is for Daniel Szopa, son of Teodor Szopa and Rozalia Kirtak.

But your URL with carpato-rusyn let me think about Rusini, or Łemkowie or Lemko
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81emkowie

The word "Łemko" in Cyrillic is inside the above page,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/NaszLemko.png/220px-NaszLemko.png
In handwritten Cyrillic "Łemko" can be confused with "Demko".

Could it be possible that Demko on the passenger manifest is ethnicity, "Lemko"?
Then you have no contradiction with Daniel.

Best,
Elzbieta
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Lizo128



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Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:42 am      Post subject:
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Here is a pic of the manifest. It looks like Demko. The writer uses the same K in the other K's on the page. It still could be an error on the record, but if it's not, I can't be sure if Demko would have morphed into Daniel, especially when it looks as though the birth record actually uses 'Daniel'. I emailed back to confirm the record says Daniel and that the writer didn't anglicize it for me. Maybe it is Denko and not an M and the writer put an M? Denko is an easier stretch than Demko for Daniel. Again, reading tea leaves Wink

UPDATE:
One of the census records in MN lists his as Den. I just found a Homestead/Land Patent record that says Den Seopa. So it looks like Den wasn't a fluke. Is Denko even a name?



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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:16 pm      Post subject: Demko vs. Daniel or ?
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The manifest was written in the US.

What if scribe noted him as "Lemko/Demko" instead of his real given name?

Re: Den Seopa - Den is as good - or as bad - as Seopa.

Best,
Elzbieta
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:57 am      Post subject:
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Hi Liz and Elzbieta,

Many thoughts this morning. First, Liz, I do need to apologize to you for having assumed in my Oct 11th post that you had a message from the Polish archives written in English. My error. Thanks for posting the original. I think we have Google Translate to "thank" for anglicizing Teodor to Theodore....! Alright then, you have a birth record for a Daniel Szopa, whose parents were Teodor Szopa and Rozalia Kirtak, and this birth is for December 21, 1866. You will see, once you receive a scan of the original, what his date of baptism was, and that may have been later in 1866 or perhaps in January 1867. Either way, I do not see this in conflict with your 3x-great-grandfather's birth year of 1867. I feel quite strongly that this is the correct record. And a bargain, at only 8 zloty! I would still keep an eye on szukajwarchivach.pl as I said in an earlier post, because if those scans go online, you will be able to look further into whether Teodor and Rozalia had other children. Maybe, just maybe, one of them was a Demitr or a Damian...

Elzbieta, as tempting as it is to see Demko/Lemko, I do not actually think this is what happened on that manifest. Many manifests were actually written at the port of departure. This is why you occasionally see names crossed out with the notation "DNS" (did not sail) or crossed out for people who died on the voyage. Certainly, other notations were added once the ship arrived in the U.S. This manifest for the steamship Oldenburg gives an example of that - - written just above the name of the second person on the list is a long number and the word "oath" and a date - - it is a notation of naturalization. And we have to ask ourselves why we do not see such a note for Demko Szopa, since Liz showed us his naturalization document. I wonder if this Demko is a brother, or a cousin, of Daniel. Just keeping a little bit of skepticism about whether this is the right passenger list. Liz, you see that Demko is listed as already married (and at the moment, I do not think you are sure yet if your Daniel was in 1892) and you see that his destination was Pennsylvania (which is possible, and maybe he later went to NY). Were I in your shoes, I would keep this manifest in the "possible-but-not-certain" pile and I would try to find Cecilia's manifest. If she enters as a married Szopa, then you need to look at church records from HER village of origin for their marriage record. If she enters unmarried, well, do you even have a birth surname to search for her with?

Liz, if you have time and the interest to pursue it, you may try looking for what happened to "Ciprian Szewczik" (probably Cyprian, maybe Szewczyk) because he arrived on the same ship as Demko and he was also from "Malasto." Did they end up living near each other? Are they in any way related? Does Cyprian become a godfather to any of Daniel and Cecylia's kids?

Another thought about "Demko." It is not a name that I ever heard of. But go to FamilySearch.org and search on First Name Demko, and click the box for "exact" and do not enter any other info in the search. You will see lots of records pop up for people named Demko. So it must have been a name .... or at least a common mis-spelling, ha!

One more note about the Oldenburg manifest, because it absolutely fascinated me. I have looked at hundreds, hundreds! of manifests and never seen this. There is on Image 610 of 909 a page of statistics about the passengers on this ship, e.g. an average of how much money they brought, a breakdown of which states they were going to, etc. I knew that these statistics were collected, but I never saw them presented along with the passenger list.

This is so much fun!
Sophia
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:06 am      Post subject:
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The two pages of interest from the steamship Oldenburg manifest.


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Lizo128



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:57 am      Post subject:
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Hi Sophia-
Your post makes a lot of sense. Sorry, I should have posted the original email instead of Mr. Google Translate's version. Confused you. That is very fascinating about the statistics they gathered, I did not see it when I was looking at the manifest.

On Cecylia- I haven't been able to find her manifest.. of 4 of her children's death records that mention mothers maiden name, all give different versions of a surname that sounds like RACHEL. here are the names they gave: Rachael, Rachiel, Raklyw and Rechal.
I have not been able to find any birth or baptism records for any of the children. 5 born in NY, 2 in MN... their real birthdates (even years) are very uncertain, first names on a few are likely not even their true given names.
I am only guessing at Cecylia's village-- from his naturalization record the scribe phonetically records : Koleza... I am thinking he is saying Gorlice. So if that is correct, what village in Gorlice is again a mystery.

On Cyprian Szewczyk found traveling with him on 1892 census.. I find him again traveling from Malastow in 1899 with a much younger fellow, Nikolaus Pawlik. The interesting part of this is where they are going... Towanda NY (not PA) as I originally thought on the 1892 manifest. The only other record I find him on is a death record for his daughter Antonia Szewczyk Gonza in Auburn NY. So now i'm off to inspect the 1900 Towanda NY census. Cyprian's wife is Anna Tyhanick, so I will look records on her too to see if she links to Malastow.

How often are new records added to szukajwarchivach.pl ??

Thanks for your valuable input- these folks have had me stumped since 2009 and i'm finally starting to crack the shell.

Liz
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