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rfiorille



Joined: 26 Jul 2019
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:01 am      Post subject: Search for Andrzejwski in Brdow
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Dear Forum,

Please forgive my lengthy post but I feel the more information, the more helpful!

I am trying to 1.) find the birth record of my great grandfather Joseph Andrzejewski, 2.) determine if I know the correct town he was born in and 3.) consider the possibility that he may have been born earlier than my research shows.

Based on my research I believe that my great grandfather Josef Andrzejewski was born 10 February 1891 (possibly earlier) to Jan Andrzejewski and Katarzyna Gibar in Brdów, Kalisz, Kingdom of Poland (the Russian Partition), what is today Brdów, Babiak, Koło, Wielkopolskie, Poland. I have attached below the sources that have led me to this conclusion.

The first attachment is his United States World War I Draft Registration Card (c. 1917-1918). It says he was born February 10, 1891 in “Brdow, Kalis, Russia”.

The second attachment, the embarking Ship Manifest for the S.S. Graf Waldersee that left Hamburg on January 22, 1909 shows he was 18 (born c. 1891) and his previous place of residence I read as “Brdowo”.

The third and fourth attachments are pages 1 and 2 of the ship manifest from his arrival in New York on February 5, 1909. On both the pages I've deciphered his last place of residence as “Brdowo”. He gave his father’s name as “Jan Andrzejewski”. On the second page he declared he was going to join his cousin. I am unsure of the cousin’s name, but I'm deciphering it as “Walenty Wdorviak”.
*I took the address listed on the ship manifest for “Walenty Wdorviak” and checked it in the 1910 census but found no one there with that name, nor any name even remotely close.

I don’t have any knowledge in regards to the rules of conscription for the Kingdom of Poland in the early 20th century, but if Josef was required to serve in the army, is it likely he would have been able to leave the country just weeks before turning 18?

A bit more information about Josef Andrzejewski. He married Florentyna Zawadzka on August 23, 1910. I have not attached the marriage index record as it provides only their names and the date of the marriage. If Josef was born in February 1891 then he would have been 19 when he married. His arrival in Cleveland, Ohio in February of 1909 means that he married less than a year and a half after he arrived. I don’t know if this would have been considered ‘very soon’ after he arrived in a completely new country or not. Perhaps there was some arrangement to the marriage? Also, I’ve wondered if the Zawadzka family was possibly from the same area in Poland as Josef Andrzejewski?

Josef’s mother’s name was possibly Katherine/Katarzyna Gibar. I have no sources to back that up and I do not remember where I received that information. It was a long time ago when I put it into my research and I have not found any record or source with that name since. But maybe Gibar is a surname in Brdów or the surrounding area?

In the 1920 US Census (not included), Josef indicated his and his parents' birthplace as “Russia” and native tongue as “Polish” and his estimated year of birth is 1891. In the 1930 US Census (also not included) place of birth for Josef and his parents switches to "Poland" and estimated birth year is still 1891. Josef died in 1934 and the informant, his son-in-law, on the Certificate of Death (not included) said Josef was born in Warsaw, Poland to Joseph Androwski (the surname changed) and he didn't know Josef's mother's name.

I first attempted to search the https:// szukajwarchiwach pl/ website, but the digitized records for Brdów only go up to 1884. I did not search the records online because I feel the probability of finding my great grandfather in 1884 or before unlikely. I am also unable to read what I think is Cyrillic handwriting. I would maybe be able to make out the surname Andrzejewski, but that is about it. I then contacted the State Archives in Poznań, Branch in Konin via email. They were very helpful and promptly did a search of the archives for the years 1889-1893 and said they found no Joseph (Josef) Andrzejewski. They gave no additional information on whether there were any other Andrzejewskis in Brdów within the date range searched. They seem to only give information on what is specifically asked for (I don’t believe they would search for any or all Andrzejewskis born in Brdów in a given date range for example, although I have not asked).

I am honestly a bit stumped by the fact that the Polish archives didn't find Josef Andrzewski's birth record. I believe I have correctly identified his place of birth, but I think I may have the birth year wrong. Everything points to 1891, but perhaps there was some reason Josef incorrectly believed he was born in 1891 or maybe he had a reason to say he was younger than he was? I'm not sure. I have no other sources that give his age. I have yet to find his children's birth records (all born in the U.S. in Berea, Ohio between 1910 and 1922).

I feel that my next best option would be to request another search of the archives for Josef Andrzejewski born between 1885 and 1888. However, I just recently came across this Polish forum and thought it would be helpful to first ask for advice from those that have worked a lot in Polish Genealogy as well as with the Polish archives. I’m hoping perhaps a forum member can look at my research with fresh eyes and give me some ideas/opinions as to whether Brdów is Josef’s place of birth, if he was possibly born in an earlier year, as well as how best to proceed from here!

Sincerely,
Robert Fiorille



DRAFT CARD.png
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United States World War I Draft Registration Card. It says he was born February 10, 1891 in ?Brdow, Kalis, Russia?.
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HAMBURG MANIFEST.png
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Embarking Ship Manifest for the S.S. Graf Waldersee that left Hamburg on January 22, 1909 shows he was 18 (born c. 1891) and his previous place of residence I read as ?Brdowo?.
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HAMBURG MANIFEST.png



NY MANIFEST 1.png
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Page 1 of the ship manifest from Josef Andrzejewski's arrival in New York on February 5, 1909. I've deciphered his last place of residence as ?Brdowo?.
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NY MANIFEST 1.png



NY MANIFEST 2.jpg
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Page 2 of the ship manifest from Josef Andrzejewski's arrival in New York on February 5, 1909. He gave his father?s name as ?Jan Andrzejewski?. He declared he was going to join his cousin. I am unsure of the cousin?s name, but I'm deciphering it as ?Walen
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:31 am      Post subject:
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Jan Andrzejewski and Katarzyna Gibalska married in Brdów parish in 1882. Entry number 6.

here is their marriage record

unfortunately church records later that 1882 are not available online so You have to ask State Archive to search for the baptism record.

Here is Archive contact details:



Archiwum Państwowe w Poznaniu Oddział w Koninie
ul. 3 Maja 78
Konin 62-500
Konin-Starówka

Tel +48 63 242 92 77

Fax +48 63 246 74 56

[email protected]

http://www.poznan.ap.gov.pl


You have to ask Archive to search 1882-1909 period to find the baptism record You are looking for.



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THANK YOU Smile

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rfiorille



Joined: 26 Jul 2019
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:17 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you Marcelproust. This is a great start! Is there any more vital information from the marriage act? I'm unable to make out anything on the document. Are you able to highlight names on the image? Is the very first word that's underlined a surname?
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:38 pm      Post subject:
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rfiorille wrote:
Thank you Marcelproust. This is a great start! Is there any more vital information from the marriage act? I'm unable to make out anything on the document. Are you able to highlight names on the image? Is the very first word that's underlined a surname?


I will translate it and underline the names

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

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rfiorille



Joined: 26 Jul 2019
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:05 pm      Post subject:
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That would be extremely helpful. Thank you!
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:46 pm      Post subject:
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rfiorille wrote:
That would be extremely helpful. Thank you!


please notice that newlyweds did premarital agreement. If you want i can order this agreement from State Archive.



Nr 6
Żurawieniec

It happened in Brdów on the 7th day of February 1882, at 10 a.m. We make it known that in the presence of the witnesses: Franciszek Tontała, 62 years old and Paweł Szaradowski, 56 years old, both farmers living in Żurawieniec, there was concluded on this day religious marriage between:

Jan Andrzejewski, 24 years old, a single man, former soldier of Imperial Russian Army regiment, farmer living in Żurawieniec, born in Żurawieniec, son of spouses: Andrzej Andrzejewski and Katarzyna Andrzejewska nee Kwiatkowska, farmers living in Żurawieniec

and

Katarzyna Gibalska, a miss, 22 years old, living with her parents in Żurawieniec, born in Marynki located in Modzerowo parish in Koło county, Kalisz governorate, daughter of spouses: Jan Gibalski and Marianna Gibalska nee Rydlewska, farmers living in Żurawieniec.

This marriage was preceded by 3 banns of marriage on: 8th, 15th and 22nd day of January of the current year announced in Brdów parish church.
Newlyweds parents, present during writing this marriage act gave oral permission for this marriage.

Newlyweds did premarital agreement in the city Koło in front of notary Zalewski on the 27th day of January of the current year, number 207.

There were no obstacles to this marriage.
This act was read to the illiterate present and signed only by Us.

Priest Perczyński, Brdów parish parson.


red colour: groom
orange colour: groom's parents
green colour: bride
light green colour: bride's parents



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My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
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rfiorille



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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:46 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you again Marcelproust!

Your translation and highlighting the document are extremely helpful. I do have a question. If Josef Andrzewjewski was born in Żurawieniec, would his birth record still be found in Brdów parish?
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:58 pm      Post subject:
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rfiorille wrote:
Thank you again Marcelproust!

Your translation and highlighting the document are extremely helpful. I do have a question. If Josef Andrzewjewski was born in Żurawieniec, would his birth record still be found in Brdów parish?


Yes, Żurawieniec belonged to Brdów parish.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

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rfiorille



Joined: 26 Jul 2019
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:23 am      Post subject:
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marcelproust wrote:
please notice that newlyweds did premarital agreement. If you want i can order this agreement from State Archive.


Thank you for offering Marcelproust but I will contact the archives in Konin again first and ask them to search for Josef Andrzejewski born to Jan Andrzejewski and Katarzyna Gibalska between 1885 and 1888 before I ask you to order the marriage banns. I want to first confirm these are my great grandfather's parents.
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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:32 am      Post subject:
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rfiorille wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
please notice that newlyweds did premarital agreement. If you want i can order this agreement from State Archive.


Thank you for offering Marcelproust but I will contact the archives in Konin again first and ask them to search for Josef Andrzejewski born to Jan Andrzejewski and Katarzyna Gibalska between 1885 and 1888 before I ask you to order the marriage banns. I want to first confirm these are my great grandfather's parents.


I understand. Please let us know about the research results Smile

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

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rfiorille



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Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:33 am      Post subject:
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marcelproust wrote:
I understand. Please let us know about the research results Smile


Of course! Will do!
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:13 am      Post subject: Re: Search for Andrzejwski in Brdow
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rfiorille wrote:

Based on my research I believe that my great grandfather Josef Andrzejewski was born 10 February 1891 (possibly earlier) to Jan Andrzejewski and Katarzyna Gibar in Brdów, Kalisz, Kingdom of Poland (the Russian Partition), what is today Brdów, Babiak, Koło, Wielkopolskie, Poland. I have attached below the sources that have led me to this conclusion.

The third and fourth attachments are pages 1 and 2 of the ship manifest from his arrival in New York on February 5, 1909. On both the pages I've deciphered his last place of residence as “Brdowo”. He gave his father’s name as “Jan Andrzejewski”. On the second page he declared he was going to join his cousin. I am unsure of the cousin’s name, but I'm deciphering it as “Walenty Wdorviak”.
*I took the address listed on the ship manifest for “Walenty Wdorviak” and checked it in the 1910 census but found no one there with that name, nor any name even remotely close.

Josef died in 1934 and the informant, his son-in-law, on the Certificate of Death (not included) said Josef was born in Warsaw, Poland to Joseph Androwski (the surname changed) and he didn't know Josef's mother's name.


Hi Robert,
I have a few comments regarding names. First, although it is a small detail, you did ask about the name of the cousin on the 1909 ship manifest. I read it as Walenty Wdowiak. It is easy enough for me to pronounce (smile) but not so for everyone, so it likely got modified by the family once they moved to the U.S. and even if they did not change it, it was probably prone to incorrect spelling in documents like the census.
Next, the surname as given by the son-in-law on the death certificate. Since the root of Andrzejewski, Andzrej, is the name Andrew in English, it is not surprising to see some Andrzejewski families change their surname - - I have seen Andrews, as one example. Androwski could be another example of an actual name change, or it could be the best that the son-in-law could recollect when asked.
Here is the other surprising thing, to me. An alternative way of writing Andzrej is Jedrzej. (Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can explain this.) You might find that some families were "fluid," if I can use that word, in going between Andrzejewski and Jedrzejewski in old records.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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rfiorille



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Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:54 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Sophia,

Thank you for you deciphering Walenty's name. It was very helpful. I found a few records that indicate a Walenty Wdowiak was living in and died in Cleveland, Ohio. In his naturalization papers his place of birth is typed as "Brodon, Poland". I could be wrong, but I don't think there is such a town. I think this is perhaps the same situation that you mentioned in regards to his name on the manifest. Perhaps the person typing the name of the town modified Brdów to "Brodon". The papers also state that he arrived in the US at the port of New York on 23 May, 1905 from Rotterdam, Holland. He didn't know the vessel, but I found the SS Noordam arrived from Holland on that date. I looked through all the manifest pages and unfortunately didn't find Walenty. I was hoping it would have listed where he was from. However, even if it did, his papers also say he was born January 17, 1885. The records online for Brdów only go up to 1884 so I still need to request the archives to search for him in addition to Josef Andrzejewski.

In regards to the name Androwski given by the son-in-law on the death certificate, I didn't make it clear, but I did know that was what the name was changed to. So it was an actual name change and not the son-in-law's poor recollection.

The alternative spelling for Andrzej of Jedrzej is interesting and something I will keep in mind when getting deeper into the records.

I sent another request to the archives this morning so I'm hoping to hear back from them in the next day or two and I'll be sure to update.

The one thing I'm still wondering about and that I also mentioned in my first post is if Josef Andrzejewski would have been able/likely to leave Poland in 1909 if he was only 17. My thought is that he wouldn't because he would've needed to serve in the army. I'm still thinking he was born before 1889 and therefore older than 17 when he came to the US. It's a wait and see game for me. As soon as I hear back from the Archives in Konin, hopefully I'll know more!

Thanks!
Robert
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rfiorille



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Post Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:17 pm      Post subject:
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This morning I received a response from the Archives in Konin after asking them to search the years 1885 - 1888 for Josef Andrzejewski, son of John Andrzejewski and Catherine Gibalska, as well as any other children born to this couple in those years. They were very helpful in their response as they included information found from my initial request as well. Here is their response:

Data: 2019-09-24

W związku z Pana zamówieniem dotyczącym poszukiwań aktu urodzenia
Josefa/Józefa Andrzejewskiego (syna Jana i Katarzyny z Gibalskich) oraz
aktów urodzeń jego rodzeństwa, Archiwum Państwowe w Poznaniu. Oddział w
Koninie informuje, że dokonano przeszukania skorowidzów do aktów urodzeń
w księgach stanu cywilnego z lat 1885-1888, z przechowywanego w zasobie
tutejszego Oddziału zespołu archiwalnego 54/731/0 „Akta stanu cywilnego
Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”. (sygnatury: 138-141).

W przedmiotowych materiałach nie odnaleziono wpisu dotyczącego osoby o
imieniu i nazwisku: Józef (Josef) Andrzejewski, ani wpisów dotyczących
jego rodzeństwa, a tym samym ich aktów urodzeń.

Jednocześnie informujemy, że w toku przedmiotowej, jak i poprzedniej
kwerendy (zob. sprawa OK.----.--.2019) odnaleziono akty urodzeń osób o
nazwisku Andrzejczak, których matką była Katarzyna z Gibalskich a ojcem
Jan (zapisywany także w formie Iwan, stanowiącej rosyjski odpowiednik
imienia Jan), a mianowicie:
- Apolonia Andrzejczak (nr 107 z 1886 r.) - 54/731/0 „Akta stanu
cywilnego Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”, sygnatura 139,strona 63;
- Józefa Andrzejczak (nr 32 z 1884 r.) - 54/731/0 „Akta stanu cywilnego
Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”, sygnatura 137, strona 11;
- Franc (Franciszek) Andrzejczak (nr 92 z 1882 r.) - 54/731/0 „Akta
stanu cywilnego Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”, sygnatura 135, strona
31.
W przypadku zainteresowania sporządzeniem ich kopii (skanów) prosimy o
informację.

oprac. R.P.

Z poważaniem
Piotr Rybczyński
Kierownik Oddziału w Koninie


I plan to ask them for scans of the records, but I know that the records are available online from 1884 and earlier. So I went to the online archives and did a search based on the information they provided. These are the records I found and I wondered if someone could verify that these are the records for Józefa Andrzejczak and Franc (Franciszek) Andrzejczak that are mentioned in their message above. If they are then I will post them on the Russian Translation board for translation.

I am also interested if anyone has any thoughts on whether this Józefa Andrzejczak is likely my great grandfather Josef Andrzejewski. Is there some explanation for the differences in surnames if this is him?

Thank you!
Robert



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possible Franc Andrzejeczak birth act.png
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:06 am      Post subject:
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rfiorille wrote:
This morning I received a response from the Archives in Konin after asking them to search the years 1885 - 1888 for Josef Andrzejewski, son of John Andrzejewski and Catherine Gibalska, as well as any other children born to this couple in those years. They were very helpful in their response as they included information found from my initial request as well. Here is their response:

Data: 2019-09-24

W związku z Pana zamówieniem dotyczącym poszukiwań aktu urodzenia
Josefa/Józefa Andrzejewskiego (syna Jana i Katarzyny z Gibalskich) oraz
aktów urodzeń jego rodzeństwa, Archiwum Państwowe w Poznaniu. Oddział w
Koninie informuje, że dokonano przeszukania skorowidzów do aktów urodzeń
w księgach stanu cywilnego z lat 1885-1888, z przechowywanego w zasobie
tutejszego Oddziału zespołu archiwalnego 54/731/0 „Akta stanu cywilnego
Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”. (sygnatury: 138-141).

W przedmiotowych materiałach nie odnaleziono wpisu dotyczącego osoby o
imieniu i nazwisku: Józef (Josef) Andrzejewski, ani wpisów dotyczących
jego rodzeństwa, a tym samym ich aktów urodzeń.

Jednocześnie informujemy, że w toku przedmiotowej, jak i poprzedniej
kwerendy (zob. sprawa OK.----.--.2019) odnaleziono akty urodzeń osób o
nazwisku Andrzejczak, których matką była Katarzyna z Gibalskich a ojcem
Jan (zapisywany także w formie Iwan, stanowiącej rosyjski odpowiednik
imienia Jan), a mianowicie:
- Apolonia Andrzejczak (nr 107 z 1886 r.) - 54/731/0 „Akta stanu
cywilnego Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”, sygnatura 139,strona 63;
- Józefa Andrzejczak (nr 32 z 1884 r.) - 54/731/0 „Akta stanu cywilnego
Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”, sygnatura 137, strona 11;
- Franc (Franciszek) Andrzejczak (nr 92 z 1882 r.) - 54/731/0 „Akta
stanu cywilnego Parafii Rzymskokatolickiej Brdów”, sygnatura 135, strona
31.
W przypadku zainteresowania sporządzeniem ich kopii (skanów) prosimy o
informację.

oprac. R.P.

Z poważaniem
Piotr Rybczyński
Kierownik Oddziału w Koninie


I plan to ask them for scans of the records, but I know that the records are available online from 1884 and earlier. So I went to the online archives and did a search based on the information they provided. These are the records I found and I wondered if someone could verify that these are the records for Józefa Andrzejczak and Franc (Franciszek) Andrzejczak that are mentioned in their message above. If they are then I will post them on the Russian Translation board for translation.

I am also interested if anyone has any thoughts on whether this Józefa Andrzejczak is likely my great grandfather Josef Andrzejewski. Is there some explanation for the differences in surnames if this is him?

Thank you!
Robert


Hi Robert,
I think you may as well post these two records on the Russian Translation thread, and possibly your letter from the archives on the Polish translation thread as well, if you feel like you missed any of its content. Based on what the archives letter said, and since I cannot read the Russian records, I would say that this is not your great grandfather Jozef. It is a girl, Jozefa, very possibly his older sister. I am hesitant about whether your Andrzejewski family and this Andrzejczak family are one and the same, although the indication from the archives that the mother of these children is Katarzyna Gibalska, and the father is Jan, does favor that chance.
Best,
Sophia
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