PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Szczerley, Poland?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Author
Message
KaminskiJL



Joined: 29 Jul 2022
Replies: 20

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:16 am      Post subject: Szczerley, Poland?
Reply with quote

I am trying to locate the town/village that my grandmother, Eva Esa, immigrated from in 1904. Her passenger record states that she immigrated aboard the S.S. Noordland from Liverpool on July 6, 1904, arriving in the port of Philadelphia on July 18, 1904. The record further states that she was listed as Polish, but her last residence was Szczerley Russia. I can find no information on the town, so I don't know if it was in Poland or Russia. Any help would be appreciated.
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 837

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:07 pm      Post subject: Re: Szczerley, Poland?
Reply with quote

KaminskiJL wrote:
I am trying to locate the town/village that my grandmother, Eva Esa, immigrated from in 1904. Her passenger record states that she immigrated aboard the S.S. Noordland from Liverpool on July 6, 1904, arriving in the port of Philadelphia on July 18, 1904. The record further states that she was listed as Polish, but her last residence was Szczerley Russia. I can find no information on the town, so I don't know if it was in Poland or Russia. Any help would be appreciated.


Hi,
I looked at the manifest:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GP18-5JG?i=309&cc=1921481&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A23QV-GSR
There are a surprising number of places in Poland that begin with the letters "Szczer....." but none in which the next letter is an ""L."
If it is just a handwriting issue, then perhaps the "LE" in your "Sczcerley" is actually a "B" by which I mean perhaps the place is Szczerby. And again, there is more than one of these!
Take a look at this page from Slownik Geograficzny:
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_XI/849
The first one listed there says it is in the gmina (administrative district) of Szczutowo.
When I look at the villages listed today as belonging to that gmina, Szczerby is not listed; however, in the neighboring gmina of Rogowo, a Szczerby is listed among the villages, so perhaps the boundaries of these gminas changed over time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmina_Rogowo,_Rypin_County
You can see it on googlemaps, southeast of Rypin.
What do you think?
Sophia

Note: edited for spelling. The town is spelled SZCZERBY and I typed it wrong a few times in the original version of this post.
Sophia


Last edited by Sophia on Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile
Send private message
KaminskiJL



Joined: 29 Jul 2022
Replies: 20

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:31 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Sophia,
After doing a little handwriting detective work I believe it is possible that Szczerby was written down as Szczerley. I went back to her passenger manifest and did a little handwriting comparison. I looked at the Szczerley entry on her manifest line and compared it to several of the "Hebrew" entries in the Race or People column of the manifest. Whoever did the writing had a peculiar way of writing the lower case "b" such that it appears as a lower case "le". I think that this could easily have been mis-transposed as "Szczerley" when it was acually written in the manifest as "Szczerby". I suppose the only way to confirm would be to find some record of her surname in an official document in the village. I will try to pursue this.
Thank you so much for your help!
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 837

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:25 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

KaminskiJL wrote:
Hi Sophia,
After doing a little handwriting detective work I believe it is possible that Szczerby was written down as Szczerley. I went back to her passenger manifest and did a little handwriting comparison. I looked at the Szczerley entry on her manifest line and compared it to several of the "Hebrew" entries in the Race or People column of the manifest. Whoever did the writing had a peculiar way of writing the lower case "b" such that it appears as a lower case "le". I think that this could easily have been mis-transposed as "Szczerley" when it was acually written in the manifest as "Szczerby". I suppose the only way to confirm would be to find some record of her surname in an official document in the village. I will try to pursue this.
Thank you so much for your help!


You are most welcome!
I see what you mean with the "b" in Hebrew. So Szczerby may well be correct.
I don't want you to think I necessarily picked the right one of the 3 Szczerby entries in the Slownik Geograficzny, though. In fact, the other 2 are more likely to have been in the Russian Partition.
Specifically, it lists a Szczerby in Powiat Dzisienski, Gmina Plissa and another in Powiat Pruzanski, Gmina Horodeczna.
Sophia

Note added on Tuesday morning: I can see from the birth/baptism record that Marcel posted, which is written in Russian, that the Szczerby in Gmina Rogowa was definitely in the Russian partition. So you can disregard my suggestion here to look at the other two Sczcerby's (Gmina Plissa and Gmina Horodeczna).
Sophia


Last edited by Sophia on Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile
Send private message
mm_88



Joined: 31 Jul 2022
Replies: 17

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:41 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi,
I think that Sophia is right and Szczerby in gmina Rogowo is the village you are looking for.
In Słownik Geograficzny that Sophia linked you can find that the parish for Szczerby is Gujsk (Gójsk) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B3jsk

Ewa Esa was travelling with Bronisława Czachorowska to her cousin Józef Czachorowski. In Geneteka you can see that both surnames - Essa/Ess and Czachorowski - appears in Gójsk and in nearby parishes.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=D&w=07mz&rid=3422&search_lastname=es*&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=

Good luck!

_________________
Monika
View user's profile
Send private message
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3891
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:46 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

KaminskiJL wrote:
Hi Sophia,
After doing a little handwriting detective work I believe it is possible that Szczerby was written down as Szczerley. I went back to her passenger manifest and did a little handwriting comparison. I looked at the Szczerley entry on her manifest line and compared it to several of the "Hebrew" entries in the Race or People column of the manifest. Whoever did the writing had a peculiar way of writing the lower case "b" such that it appears as a lower case "le". I think that this could easily have been mis-transposed as "Szczerley" when it was acually written in the manifest as "Szczerby". I suppose the only way to confirm would be to find some record of her surname in an official document in the village. I will try to pursue this.
Thank you so much for your help!


Can you tell us what religion was Ewa?
Esa was her marriage or maiden surname?
What esle you can tell us about Ewa?
How old was Ewa in 1904?
Do You know Ewa's parents?

I think I found a birth record of a person names Ewa Hes in the Gójsk parish, in the village of Szczerby in the year of 1886. By the way. i live 9 kilometers far from Gójsk.
Please notice my translation, the surname Czachorowska appears.


Szczerby
269

It happened in the village of Gójsk, om November 24th/December 6th, 1886, at 3 p.m.
ppeared Antoni Hes, a shoemaker from Szczerby, 28 years old, in the presence of Tomasz Chojnacki, a farmer from the village of Szczutowo, 30 years old and Michał Dołkowski, a daylaborer from the village of Hermanów, 29 years old, and presented Us a female infant child, informing that the child was born on November 19th/December 1st of the current year, at 10 p.m., in the village of Szczerby, to his legal wife: Marianna nee Tyburska, 28 years old.
At the Holy Baptism, held today by the priest Jan Świderski, the child was given the name: Ewa, and the godparents were:Jan Parulski and Aniela Czachorowska.
This act was read to the illiterarte present and it was signed by Us only.

Priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the Gójsk parish, serving as Civil Registrar.


Here is the village of Szczerby:
https://goo.gl/maps/Anwevcu3yvskE7cLA



birth record.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  124.94 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

birth record.JPG



_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 837

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:31 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

marcelproust wrote:


Can you tell us what religion was Ewa?
Esa was her marriage or maiden surname?
What esle you can tell us about Ewa?
How old was Ewa in 1904?
Do You know Ewa's parents?



Hi Marcel,
On the ship manifest, Ewa Esa was 17 and she was single. That was in July 1904, so the birth record you found from December 1886 matches perfectly.
Sophia
View user's profile
Send private message
mm_88



Joined: 31 Jul 2022
Replies: 17

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:08 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Yes, and there are also birth records for Bronisława, Józef and Aniela Czachorowska (Ewa's godmother) - they were siblings. And there are so many things to discover with those scans for Hes and Tyburska families!
_________________
Monika
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2565
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:14 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Sophia wrote:
marcelproust wrote:


Can you tell us what religion was Ewa?
Esa was her marriage or maiden surname?
What esle you can tell us about Ewa?
How old was Ewa in 1904?
Do You know Ewa's parents?



Hi Marcel,
On the ship manifest, Ewa Esa was 17 and she was single. That was in July 1904, so the birth record you found from December 1886 matches perfectly.
Sophia


Hi Marcel & Sophia,

Everything aligns for the record being the correct one for Ewa. Gójsk (19th Century spelling: Gujsk) was the parish for Szczerby according to the Słownik geograficzny, The surname Esa is found under several spellings as is demonstrated by the index from Geneteka posted by Monika. That index contains the names of 2 of Ewa’s siblings. Their death records are attached along with their birth records. Also attached is the birth record of Ewa’s sibling Waleria, who married in 1913.

All this and Monika’s latest post should give a good jump start to further research.

All the best,

Dave



record-image_(5).jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.94 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

record-image_(5).jpg



record-image_(4).jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.61 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

record-image_(4).jpg



record-image_(3).jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.28 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

record-image_(3).jpg



1cb985b00f73786d5938682ce99c99fcc1c1af91e664b68495925b8401e9363b_max.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.75 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

1cb985b00f73786d5938682ce99c99fcc1c1af91e664b68495925b8401e9363b_max.jpg



ca2985f65cf098221e4581431f6fa06ef9f9a7842cd841eae1e87fa997cd1064_max.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.78 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

ca2985f65cf098221e4581431f6fa06ef9f9a7842cd841eae1e87fa997cd1064_max.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
KaminskiJL



Joined: 29 Jul 2022
Replies: 20

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:49 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Sorry, but I am new to working on a forum...
Eva was a practicing catholic. Esa was her maiden name. I am attaching a copy of her marriage license application to her second husband (my grandfather). On this application her surname is Maraga (actually Mroga). She was a widow. The only thing that I know of her parents is written on this application; father's name was Anthony, mother's name was Mary Bubulska. In 1904 when she immigrated she was listed on the passenger manifest as age 17.



Kaminski-Esa marriage application.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.31 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Kaminski-Esa marriage application.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 837

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:58 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

KaminskiJL wrote:
Sorry, but I am new to working on a forum...
Eva was a practicing catholic. Esa was her maiden name. I am attaching a copy of her marriage license application to her second husband (my grandfather). On this application her surname is Maraga (actually Mroga). She was a widow. The only thing that I know of her parents is written on this application; father's name was Anthony, mother's name was Mary Bubulska. In 1904 when she immigrated she was listed on the passenger manifest as age 17.


Hi,
In today's world, we are used to having official pieces of I.D., and if the spelling on one does not match the spelling on another, it is a headache. In the time of your Ewa's birth, the situation was rather different. Record keepers did not ask to see a piece of I.D. Rather, at her baptism, her Polish-speaking father spoke his name to a Polish priest who, because of the rules imposed by the tsar, was forced to write the record in Russian. Not only is it a different language, but it uses a different alphabet. The sentences get translated, but the names get transliterated. So here you have the situation in which a name was transliterated from the Latin alphabet of Polish to the cyrillic alphabet of Russian, and now you have Geneteka indexers and our good friend Marcel transliterating that Russian back to Polish. It is not unusual to have some variations in the spelling. (Fast forward to 2022. Here is an entry from Wikipedia: "Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy (born 25 January 1978), also transliterated as Zelensky or Zelenskiy, is a Ukrainian politician and former comedian actor who has served as the sixth and current president of Ukraine since 2019." Three different spellings of his name!)
This is my long-winded way of saying that those of us in this thread are interpreting the name Esa to be the same as Hes. It is also showing up as Essa in the indexed records.
As Marcel wrote out the birth record, you see the father as Antoni Hes. That is your Anthony Esa. The mother is Marianna, nee Tyburska. The marriage record you posted shows Mary Cubulska. Close enough, in my opinion, given that you know Mroga was written as Maraga. The Czachorowska connection, as Monika so nicely showed, is convincing to me, as well.
Does this help your thinking?
Sophia
View user's profile
Send private message
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3891
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:58 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Sophia wrote:
KaminskiJL wrote:
Sorry, but I am new to working on a forum...
Eva was a practicing catholic. Esa was her maiden name. I am attaching a copy of her marriage license application to her second husband (my grandfather). On this application her surname is Maraga (actually Mroga). She was a widow. The only thing that I know of her parents is written on this application; father's name was Anthony, mother's name was Mary Bubulska. In 1904 when she immigrated she was listed on the passenger manifest as age 17.


Hi,
In today's world, we are used to having official pieces of I.D., and if the spelling on one does not match the spelling on another, it is a headache. In the time of your Ewa's birth, the situation was rather different. Record keepers did not ask to see a piece of I.D. Rather, at her baptism, her Polish-speaking father spoke his name to a Polish priest who, because of the rules imposed by the tsar, was forced to write the record in Russian. Not only is it a different language, but it uses a different alphabet. The sentences get translated, but the names get transliterated. So here you have the situation in which a name was transliterated from the Latin alphabet of Polish to the cyrillic alphabet of Russian, and now you have Geneteka indexers and our good friend Marcel transliterating that Russian back to Polish. It is not unusual to have some variations in the spelling. (Fast forward to 2022. Here is an entry from Wikipedia: "Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy (born 25 January 1978), also transliterated as Zelensky or Zelenskiy, is a Ukrainian politician and former comedian actor who has served as the sixth and current president of Ukraine since 2019." Three different spellings of his name!)
This is my long-winded way of saying that those of us in this thread are interpreting the name Esa to be the same as Hes. It is also showing up as Essa in the indexed records.
As Marcel wrote out the birth record, you see the father as Antoni Hes. That is your Anthony Esa. The mother is Marianna, nee Tyburska. The marriage record you posted shows Mary Cubulska. Close enough, in my opinion, given that you know Mroga was written as Maraga. The Czachorowska connection, as Monika so nicely showed, is convincing to me, as well.
Does this help your thinking?
Sophia


I am 99% sure I have found the right birth record.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
KaminskiJL



Joined: 29 Jul 2022
Replies: 20

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

I agree with both of you that the record you found for Eva Esa is the correct record. Thank you all for your effort! I was told since a boy that in English her surname was Hess, and that Esa was the Polish translation of the Hess surname. The only thing on your record that gave me pause was the surname of her mother, Tyburska, being different from the maiden name of her mother, Bubulska, on the U.S. marriage record. However, several times during my research I have found inconsistencies between information provided by my ancestors and the actual information. An example would be my grandfather's immigration ship. He stated on his naturalization application that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Carmainia. My research showed that the S.S. Carmainia never ported in Philadelphia. Ultimately I found that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Main. Apparently Main and Carmania were close enough for him. The attitude of those that immigrated was often "forget about the past, live for the present". Nice to think about in principle, but exceedingly hard to follow from a research point of view.

Again, thanks to all of you for this research! I will correct my records and family tree to reflect her mother's correct maiden name, and her place of birth.

To Marcel, what would you think would be an acceptable payment for your efforts translating the birth record, and would you be interested in translating the other records provided in this thread?
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2565
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:14 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

KaminskiJL wrote:
I agree with both of you that the record you found for Eva Esa is the correct record. Thank you all for your effort! I was told since a boy that in English her surname was Hess, and that Esa was the Polish translation of the Hess surname. The only thing on your record that gave me pause was the surname of her mother, Tyburska, being different from the maiden name of her mother, Bubulska, on the U.S. marriage record. However, several times during my research I have found inconsistencies between information provided by my ancestors and the actual information. An example would be my grandfather's immigration ship. He stated on his naturalization application that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Carmainia. My research showed that the S.S. Carmainia never ported in Philadelphia. Ultimately I found that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Main. Apparently Main and Carmania were close enough for him. The attitude of those that immigrated was often "forget about the past, live for the present". Nice to think about in principle, but exceedingly hard to follow from a research point of view.

Again, thanks to all of you for this research! I will correct my records and family tree to reflect her mother's correct maiden name, and her place of birth.

To Marcel, what would you think would be an acceptable payment for your efforts translating the birth record, and would you be interested in translating the other records provided in this thread?


Hi,

Attached is a doc which you may find useful and links to the 1910 & 1920 Federal Census returns. 1910 Census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RKH-J5Q?i=56&cc=1727033&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMGZ1-WX2
1920 Census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRXK-H8W?i=17&cc=1488411&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMXSV-T8Q

If you want to be doubly certain about the maiden name of Eva’s mother a good source of data would be either of her ecclesiastical marriage records. There were two RC Polish parishes in Shenandoah, St. Casimir & St. Stanislaus, which have merged with several other parishes into the new parish of Divine Mercy. Here is a link to the parish: https://www.dmparish.com/ If you decide to contact the parish be sure to request a photo copy or a scan of the appropriate marriage register.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave



record-image_.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.2 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

record-image_.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3891
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:37 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

KaminskiJL wrote:


To Marcel, what would you think would be an acceptable payment for your efforts translating the birth record, and would you be interested in translating the other records provided in this thread?


it is up to You, i will apreciate the donation.
yes, i will provide the translations.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Villages and towns of our ancestors' origins All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2009-2022 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM