Henry Soszynski
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Replies: 107
Location: BrisbaneBack to top |
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:45 pm
Post subject: Clarification of Baptismal Record for Zofia Romańczuk
Greetings,
The original baptismal record for Zofia states that she was born illegitimately in 1918, and the attached 'adnotacja' in 1930 states that Marian was the father of the girl. It also seems to apply that she was his daughter by his legally married wife. This is based on a decision by the tribunal in 1983 (see attached). It seems to me that either Zofia became legitimate by the subsequent marriage of the parents i.e. l.p.m.s. or that the father was somehow accidently omitted from his daughter's original baptismal record in 1918 (available on request).
Kind regards,
Henry Soszyński
| Description: |
| Additional information regarding baptismal record #110 of 1918 |
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375.29 KB |
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1147
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:28 am
Post subject: Re: Clarification of Baptismal Record for Zofia Romańczuk
| Henry Soszynski wrote: | Greetings,
The original baptismal record for Zofia states that she was born illegitimately in 1918, and the attached 'adnotacja' in 1930 states that Marian was the father of the girl. It also seems to apply that she was his daughter by his legally married wife. This is based on a decision by the tribunal in 1983 (see attached). It seems to me that either Zofia became legitimate by the subsequent marriage of the parents i.e. l.p.m.s. or that the father was somehow accidently omitted from his daughter's original baptismal record in 1918 (available on request).
Kind regards,
Henry Soszyński |
Hi Henry,
In case you did not see it, there is an image of the other side of the paper on which the "adnotacja" was written, which is a filled-out form, just go back one scan (Scan 57) and you will see it. It adds the details that her marriage info (1947) was included in margin notes, although I do not see those notes in the scan that contains her baptism record (scan 59).
I also looked at how the index is written for 1918. While Zofia is acknowledged by both surnames, you can tell that her name was written in at a later time than when the index was originally written, on both scan 147 as Zofia Matuszyńska and on scan 148 as Zofia Romańczuk, because she does not have a sequence number by her name in either of those places, and the ink is different than other entries in the index.
I will leave it to someone else to answer your actual question because my translation skills are not good enough to be 100% sure, but my guess is that at the time of her baptism, her parents were not married and Marian acknowledged paternity at a later date.
Sophia
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Henry Soszynski
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Replies: 107
Location: BrisbaneBack to top |
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: Clarification of Baptismal Record for Zofia Romańczuk
| Sophia wrote: | | Henry Soszynski wrote: | Greetings,
The original baptismal record for Zofia states that she was born illegitimately in 1918, and the attached 'adnotacja' in 1930 states that Marian was the father of the girl. It also seems to apply that she was his daughter by his legally married wife. This is based on a decision by the tribunal in 1983 (see attached). It seems to me that either Zofia became legitimate by the subsequent marriage of the parents i.e. l.p.m.s. or that the father was somehow accidently omitted from his daughter's original baptismal record in 1918 (available on request).
Kind regards,
Henry Soszyński |
Hi Henry,
In case you did not see it, there is an image of the other side of the paper on which the "adnotacja" was written, which is a filled-out form, just go back one scan (Scan 57) and you will see it. It adds the details that her marriage info (1947) was included in margin notes, although I do not see those notes in the scan that contains her baptism record (scan 59).
I also looked at how the index is written for 1918. While Zofia is acknowledged by both surnames, you can tell that her name was written in at a later time than when the index was originally written, on both scan 147 as Zofia Matuszyńska and on scan 148 as Zofia Romańczuk, because she does not have a sequence number by her name in either of those places, and the ink is different than other entries in the index.
I will leave it to someone else to answer your actual question because my translation skills are not good enough to be 100% sure, but my guess is that at the time of her baptism, her parents were not married and Marian acknowledged paternity at a later date.
Sophia |
Hello Sophia,
Thanks for your input. In fact, I hadn't noticed that she appears under both surnames in the 1918 Index, this is exceedingly odd as the different handwriting indicates that Mr. 'Scribe blue pen' had omitted her from the original index and then someone (the priest adds her himself, when?). He wouldn't normally have known who her father was until possibly 1930, and the Priest then adds Zofia under both surnames. In both positions, these two additions point to Record #110, which states that her mother was 'niezameza'. Finally the tribunal in 1983 issues an amended Baptismal Certificate apparently indicating that her parents were legally married (when?).
I've attached the above record #110. Check out the Priests name. 
The possibility that the father's name was accidently omitted is also in the mix, though I haven't been able to find a marriage record for them.
All the best,
Cheers,
Henry
| Description: |
| Baptismal certificate for Zofia |
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1.24 MB |
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1147
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:07 am
Post subject: Re: Clarification of Baptismal Record for Zofia Romańczuk
| Henry Soszynski wrote: |
Hello Sophia,
Thanks for your input. In fact, I hadn't noticed that she appears under both surnames in the 1918 Index, this is exceedingly odd as the different handwriting indicates that Mr. 'Scribe blue pen' had omitted her from the original index and then someone (the priest adds her himself, when?). He wouldn't normally have known who her father was until possibly 1930, and the Priest then adds Zofia under both surnames. In both positions, these two additions point to Record #110, which states that her mother was 'niezameza'. Finally the tribunal in 1983 issues an amended Baptismal Certificate apparently indicating that her parents were legally married (when?).
I've attached the above record #110. Check out the Priests name.
The possibility that the father's name was accidently omitted is also in the mix, though I haven't been able to find a marriage record for them.
All the best,
Cheers,
Henry |
Hi Henry,
Now that you point out the word "nienameza" I can see it, and that fact, coupled with the fact that the baby was presented at the baptism by a woman (it is otherwise always the father whose name appears after "stawila sie" but here it is Katarzyna Rawiak) would indicate to me that it was not an accidental omission of the father's name from the record.
Regarding the index, yes, I think we can point to the scribe. They were likely thinking of asking for clarification of how the priest wanted the child indexed (this is where I would have used a yellow post-it note, but that wouldn't have been available at the time, ha ha) and simply forgot to finish the task. Most of the time, for illegitimate children, I have seen them indexed under the mother's surname.
One last tiny detail - - you are saying 1983 but I read that year as 1989.
Have you found other children of this same mother, and how has their surname been recorded? That might help you pinpoint a year of the marriage.
Best regards,
Sophia
P.S. One further thought. Do you think it is possible that Anastazja Romańczuk was not Roman Catholic? I am seeing the Romańczuk surname in the Greek Catholic and orthodox churches (just looking at search results on Lubgens).
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1147
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:32 am
Post subject:
Hi Henry,
One problem solved. Zofia is, in fact, in the original index on scan 148. She was entered there, in error, as Zofia Rawiak because she was presented for baptism by Katarzyna Rawiak.
Sophia
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Henry Soszynski
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Replies: 107
Location: BrisbaneBack to top |
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:16 am
Post subject:
| Sophia wrote: | Hi Henry,
One problem solved. Zofia is, in fact, in the original index on scan 148. She was entered there, in error, as Zofia Rawiak because she was presented for baptism by Katarzyna Rawiak.
Sophia |
Hi Sophia,
Interesting. It means that she is listed under three surnames, easily a record. However a small correction, in the index Zofia Rawiak points to record #110 not #148, she is five lines below Zofia Romanczuk. It seems that 148 is part of the identification for that Index page. Full reference is 88_639_0_-_43_148_59439843. Thanks for pointing out the 1983 error. I decided to post the record that the 1989 correction makes (see attached). As for other children, a Michal is mentioned in a family letter as emigrating to the USA in the 1950's, and he and any others would all be born 1920 onwards, which records aren't readily available. Regarding religion, her mother was probably originally 'Prawoslawne' liker her father, but the grandfather was 'Greckokatolickiej'. She is noted in the 1989 record as being of the RC faith.
All the best,
Cheers,
Henry
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