galicia seeker
Joined: 30 Apr 2021
Replies: 89
Location: Mississauga, OntarioBack to top |
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:24 am
Post subject: 1774 document in Polish
Hello, I am hoping that someone can translate the two documents attached. I think it might be a time sheet for labor provided? The second page is signed by one of my forebears, Iwan Kowal.
Thanks!
I don't need a word for word translation - just an idea of what I am looking at. Iwan Kowal was a blacksmith - other records have a Kowal working for the Stratyn estate.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1545
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: 1774 document in Polish
| galicia seeker wrote: | Hello, I am hoping that someone can translate the two documents attached. I think it might be a time sheet for labor provided? The second page is signed by one of my forebears, Iwan Kowal.
Thanks!
I don't need a word for word translation - just an idea of what I am looking at. Iwan Kowal was a blacksmith - other records have a Kowal working for the Stratyn estate. |
Hi Galicia Seeker,
On the page that lists things, here is what I see at the top:
"regestr roboty Iwana Kowala" which makes it a register of Iwan Kowal's work.
I am less certain of my ability to decipher the words that follow, but perhaps:
"około fabryki pałacu stratynskiego" which would be specifying where he did this work, so in a forge in the vicinity of the Stratyn estate is how I would interpret it, given what you said above. After that, he writes the date on which he was making the list.
Most lines after that begin with:
"z Robiłom" is how it looks to me but I think he is writing "zrobiłem" meaning "I made"
I wonder whether the concept of paying for someone according to the time spent on a task existed in this era. It seems more likely he was paid according to how many objects he made. You'll need someone with better eyes than mine to read the kinds of items he was making. I think there are some wrought iron doors on the list.
I hope this helps somewhat.
Best regards,
Sophia
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1627
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:50 am
Post subject: Re: 1774 document in Polish
| Sophia wrote: | | galicia seeker wrote: | Hello, I am hoping that someone can translate the two documents attached. I think it might be a time sheet for labor provided? The second page is signed by one of my forebears, Iwan Kowal.
Thanks!
I don't need a word for word translation - just an idea of what I am looking at. Iwan Kowal was a blacksmith - other records have a Kowal working for the Stratyn estate. |
Hi Galicia Seeker,
On the page that lists things, here is what I see at the top:
"regestr roboty Iwana Kowala" which makes it a register of Iwan Kowal's work.
I am less certain of my ability to decipher the words that follow, but perhaps:
"około fabryki pałacu stratynskiego" which would be specifying where he did this work, so in a forge in the vicinity of the Stratyn estate is how I would interpret it, given what you said above. After that, he writes the date on which he was making the list.
Most lines after that begin with:
"z Robiłom" is how it looks to me but I think he is writing "zrobiłem" meaning "I made"
I wonder whether the concept of paying for someone according to the time spent on a task existed in this era. It seems more likely he was paid according to how many objects he made. You'll need someone with better eyes than mine to read the kinds of items he was making. I think there are some wrought iron doors on the list.
I hope this helps somewhat.
Best regards,
Sophia |
Hi both,
What Sophia explains is absolutely correct.
It becomes difficult to translate word for word. The text is written in old Polish, contains the term within technical language that is not used for a long time.
This was written by Iwan Kowal. There is a register of his work for the Stratyn estatethe. Written in August 1779.
He lists all work in 25 cases and some more (5) down the page. It is blacksmith work.
At the very bottom of the page he asks for something that I unfortunately can't describe what?
«To sprawiedliwie opisawszy dopraszam sie wzgledu milosierdzia nadano chudym pacholkom gdyz nie mam o czym robic i wypelniac rozkaz ….gdy na mnie zajdzie»
What do you know about Iwan Kowal? As early as 1779 there were still many who did not use surnames. First name, occupation, nickname were written in most church books. Kowal in Polish means blacksmith. Iwan (Russian)= Jan (Polish)
-Barb
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galicia seeker
Joined: 30 Apr 2021
Replies: 89
Location: Mississauga, OntarioBack to top |
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 2:02 pm
Post subject: 1774 document in Polish
Thank you both so much! Google translate isn't much help and I didn't realize that this was written in "old Polish"!
The Kowal family is related to me, but I still have some figuring out to determine how. A little background:
1. There were 3 villages attached to the Stratyn Estate - Stratyn, Dubryniow and Pukow. In the late 18th and early 19th centuries all were owned by Count Krasicki who lived on 140+ acres right in Stratyn - see attachment. It must have been nice to inherit so much wealth! His folwarks and other endeavors were extremely successful, of course aided by the contributions of his peasant population. And yes, I have found early financial records for the Stratyn Estate that documents payments for work done by the town's people early in the 19th century (szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/).
2. My paternal family roots are in Dubryniow and Stratyn (Fedun/Feduniow) and my maternal family roots are in Stratyn (Kowalow). I don't know if the surname Kowalow is derived from Kowal, but I first noticed an Anton Kowal from Stratyn who was a witness at my gr gr grandfather's marriage in 1864. He also turned up 4 years earlier to witness a baptism of a Fedun baby.
3. No record of him (Anton) in any of the local or regional church records (starting in 1818) so I am assuming that he may have lived on the Stratyn Estate (dwor) itself and may never have married or may have moved to another family-owned estate. There are no Kowal names in the 1784 Josephine Census or any of the tax lists (after 1800) found to date for Stratyn or Dubryniow (There are no Kowalow names in the census either).
4. Iwan Kowal turns up because of the work done list you kindly helped me with - 1774 in my quest to see if he was related to Anton Kowal or any of the Kowalows. Iwan is also on an estate expense list in Stratyn - 1779 and a list of obligations - 1778 - see attachments.
5. As for the use of surnames, in these 3 villages they appeared pretty early, earliest record found was 1720 - two Kowals, Stach and Iwan - see attachment. Obviously not the same Iwan Kowal!
6. There is a very early record - estimated to be 1720's of a Stach Kowal who was exempt because he worked at the dwor - see attachment.
Lastly, I totally agree with you regarding surnames reflecting occupations. When I first saw this list of expenses for the estate, I didn't realize they were actual names! I was thinking gardener (Ogrodnik), cook (Kurcharz), etc. See Attachment. So yes, Kowal = blacksmith.
Thanks again for your help - this site is amazing, so wonderfully informative and relieves a lot of frustration!
Kind regards,
Gail
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galicia seeker
Joined: 30 Apr 2021
Replies: 89
Location: Mississauga, OntarioBack to top |
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 2:51 pm
Post subject: 1774 document in Polish
A couple of attachments that may not have made it through the first cut!
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1545
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galicia seeker
Joined: 30 Apr 2021
Replies: 89
Location: Mississauga, OntarioBack to top |
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:42 pm
Post subject: 1774 document in Polish
Thanks Sophia! The Stratyn Estate was idyllic indeed.
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galicia seeker
Joined: 30 Apr 2021
Replies: 89
Location: Mississauga, OntarioBack to top |
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:39 pm
Post subject: 1774 document in Polish
When researching our ancestors, we all look for church documents - births, deaths and marriages to create a family tree to assist us in defining where we came from; however, one of the key perspectives to understanding the world they lived in would propel us to read what the world they lived in actually looked like in context with the outside world in their time.
A scholarly publication such as the one with the link below (John-Paul Himka) explains so much and helps us to understand their world and why the peasants might have wanted to escape. My forebears left and I am so grateful that they did - in Galicia at the tail end of the 19th century there was little hope. Their world was complicated as is ours, but they took the leap.
https://archive.org/details/galicianvillager00himk_0
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