Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

Author

Message

viskaleta

Joined: 17 Mar 2023
Replies: 17

Back to top

Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 11:49 am Post subject: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

Hi
I am searching for a man Jan Milewski born October 1907 in Groty (Warsaw).
I do not know how to continue. Is it possible to write to an archive in Warsaw? Email address?
I have found him in two papers from Ancestry that he during 1940 and 1944, persecuted foreign and German persons. He was in Germany by than. I think his family was Jewish (cording to a DNA test)
He survived the war and had a son in 1951 but was not married to the mother.
Can anyone help me if it is possible to find anything or the address to write to an archive.
I will be pleased if someone can help me how I will continue.

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

viskaleta wrote:

Hi,
He was born on 23 October 1907 in Groty parish Babice. Died in Kwidzyn on January 25, 1948. Married Marianna Kopeć on April 17, 1933 in Warsaw.

Best regards,
-Barb

M-Milewski-Kopec, 1933 parish Warszawa sw. Trojca.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

767.31 KB

Viewed:

0 Time(s)

B-Milewski Jan, 1907 parish Babice.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

1.64 MB

Viewed:

0 Time(s)

Last edited by BarbOslo on Fri May 26, 2023 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

viskaleta

Joined: 17 Mar 2023
Replies: 17

Back to top

Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 12:25 pm Post subject: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

Thank you for your quick answer.
As a matter of fact I can not read the information. I can only translate with google if it is typewritten, as a matter of fact.
As I can see, it is something in the margin. 1933 and 1948? Can you tell me what? He had a son in 1951. And Jan was born the 20th or 23rd of October 1907 in the papers from the birth of his son.

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

viskaleta wrote:

I attached his birth record and wedding record. Two dates are listed in these documents. The first record is in Russian, the second in Polish. According to both, he died in 1948 in Kwidzyn. Can translate both but not now. Might try later tonight or tomorrow.

-Barb

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

BarbOslo wrote:

viskaleta wrote:

No. 250 Groty

It happened in Babice, on October 14/27, 1907, at 5 p.m.
Appeared Michał Mileski, 36 years old of the current year, a worker from Groty in the presence of Józef Kornacki, 50 years old and Antoni …brfiński (?), 50 years old of the current year, both farmers from Groty and presented Us a male infant child, who was born on October 10th/23rd, at 10 p.m., to his legal wife, Marianna nee Baran, 37 years old of the current year.
At The Holy Baptism, held today, the child was given the names Jan, and the godparents were: Jan Ejchler and Urszula Murecka.
This act was read to the declarant and the witnesses and it was signed by Us.
Priest's signature
Notes:
1. Jan Mileski married Marianna Kopeć on April 17, 1933 in Warszawa parish św. Trójca (Holy Trinity parish)
2. Jan Mileski died in Kwidzyn on January 25, 1948 - act no. 11/1948

-Barb

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

No.80
It happened in Warszawa, in the Holy Trinity parish, on April 17th, 1933, at 4:30 p.m.
We make it known that in the presence of the witnesses, Jan Torzewski, baker and Bolesław Cuss, bricklayer, both of age, living in Warszawa, a religious marriage was concluded on this day, between:
Jan Mileski, a single man, gardener, 25 years old, who was born in parish Babice in the Warszawa county, a son of Michał and Marianna nee Baran, the Mileski spouses, living in Groty, commune of Bliczne, county of Warszawa, parish of Babice
and
Marianna Kopeć , a miss, lives at her parents', 30 years old, who was born in parish Zakroczyn in the Warszawa county, a daughter of Marian and Bronisława nee Lisicka, the Kopeć spouses, living in Warszawa, in the house number 225, located at Czerniakowska street, belonging to the local parish.

This marriage was preceded by the three banns of marriage, announced in the parish churches: the local and in Babice, on March 26th, April 2nd and 9th of the current year.
The newlyweds declared they did not enter into the prenuptial agreement. The religious marriage ceremony was performed by the priest Władysław Pamulak the local vicar priest.
This act was read and signed by Us and those present.

Priest's signature
Jan Mileski
Maria Kopeć
Jan Torzewski
Bolesław Cuss

Note:
Husband died on January 25, 1948. Registry Office in Kwidzyn. Act no. 11/1948

Best regards,
-Barb

viskaleta

Joined: 17 Mar 2023
Replies: 17

Back to top

Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 12:40 pm Post subject: Searching a man from Groty.

Thank you so very much Barb.
You are so kind to help us.
But something is not correct.
As we have heard he was born in Groty 23 October 1907.
That is correct.
But I do not understand ..it happened in Babice on October 14/27, 1907. What does 14/27 means?
The rest of it can be correct with what we heard, We didn´t know he was married, but that can be correct.
BUT if it is correct that he died 1948 he could not be the father of a son born in 1951.
Is it possible to find out something more from the archives?
I know also that the son has Jewish ancestry (with DNA test), althou he tells that they do not have.
Was the marriage in a catholic church?
Is the name Jan Milewski a common name so several persons have the same name and the same birthdates?
If it is possible to try another way or ask for more information, to which arcive is it possible to write a letter?

I hope you understand that I am confused.
I am so glad to have the information I have got from you, you make a great job to help so many people.

Thank you so very much!!

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Searching a man from Groty.

viskaleta wrote:

I will write back later this evening and explain / answer some of your questions.
-Barb

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Searching a man from Groty.

For over 140 years, Poland disappeared from Europe's map. Austria, Prussia and Russia divided the country between them. The Warsaw region belonged to the Russian part. As you can see, Jan was born in 1907, and his birth record is written in Russian.

In Russia, the Gregorian calendar applies. There are 12-13 days between the dates written in the Gregorian calendar and the calendar we use which is called the Julian calendar. Therefore, each date is written with two numbers 14 / 27.

….it happened in Babice on October 14/27, 1907. On this day, Jan's father came to the Babice parish to announce that his son was born. There are not churches in each village. Groty is located about 2 km from Babice, and it was the nearest church. He says that his son was born in Groty on October 10 /23. Again we have two numbers. He was born on October 23.

Milewski is quite a popular surname, but finding another person with the same first name, last name, date of birth and place of birth? I don't think that is possible.

Note that at both birth and wedding his name is Mileski (without the w). It happens quite often that the "w" disappears. Jan is not Jewish. Neither of his parents have Jewish-sounding first names. Jan's mother's maiden name was not Jewish either.

In both documents I translated for you, Jan's date of death is given as January 25, 1948. Place: Kwidzyn. It cannot be the case. Kwidzyn is located in the Pomeranian Voivodeship, about 300 km from Babice.
I don't know who Jan Milewski is to you? You mention DNA testing and Jewish ancestry. Is this test taken by the "son" who was born in 1951 or others? Do you have the birth certificate of this man to see who was listed as his parents? Do you know where he was born? Do you know anything about Jan's other children? What do you know about Jan's wife? Note that the "son" was born almost 20 years after he married Marianna. A long time after. Possibly another woman was the mother (a Jewish woman). Possibly this woman had a husband named Jan Milewski as well?

Was the marriage in a Catholic church? Yes.

You ask if it is possible to find more from the archives? What will you be looking for? But really you can't find anything in the archives. Most of the documents are still in the Registry Office (called in Poland Urzad Stanu Cywilnego).
You can contact the Registry Office in Kwidzyn and ask for the death certificate of Jan. Then you will get a little more information about that death. You have the date and act number so it will not be difficult to find. You can also contact the church in Kwidzyn. Unfortunately, I do not have access to these documents.

Urząd Stanu Cywilnego (Registry Office)
Address: ul. Warszawska 19, 82-500 Kwidzyn
Telephone: 55 646 47 20
www.bip.kwidzyn.pl
E-mail: (send mail). Go to this page: https://www.cylex-polska.pl/firmy/urz%C4%85d-stanu-cywilnego-10453970.html

-Barb

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Searching a man from Groty.

Hello,
I have found a little more about Jan's wife. She was born on May 1, 1902 in Zakroczym (parish Zakroczym). Died aged 99, on July 20, 2001 in Grifino (act 177/01).
Gryfino is a town in Pomerania, northwestern Poland, in West Pomeranian Voivodeship. Is located about 20 kilometres south of Szczecin. Close to the border with Germany.

-Barb

viskaleta

Joined: 17 Mar 2023
Replies: 17

Back to top

Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 11:28 am Post subject: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

Thank you so very much. Your help is outstanding!!
I´ve got the birthcertificate of the son ”XXX” Milewski from Wroclaw Poland.
Born 1951, October 28. The father Jan Milewski, born 1907,October 23 in Groty,
and the mother Wladyslawa Marianna Jedrusik, born 1925, July 14 in Potok.
These two were not married and the father was much older than the mother.
I do not know anything about Jan Milewskis wife Maria Kopec. In 1951 they could have been divorced or she had died or a child outside the marriage. BUT you tell me, and it stands in the paper you got that Jan was dead in 1951. So either is the deathnotice not correct orthe father to XXX is not that Jan Milewski.
Thank you to help me with the dates and the differences between the dates.
Jan Milewski is my son in laws grandfather. I try to help him getting to know somethig of his fathers ancestrys. The only he knows about grandfather Jan is the name and dates from his father XXX birthdocument. He also know that Jan and his grandma did not got married or lived together.
His grandmother Wladyslawa Jedrusik took care of her son and raised him with help from the family and she married 1955, June the 10, probably in Warsaw, with a man Szpater. The son XXX lived not together with them, thats what I have heard.
Wladyslawa did not get any more children. So the father XXX has no siblings or halfsiblings on his mothers side. If he has halfsiblings on his fathers side I do not know and have never heard of.
So Marianna Kopec` I do not know about. If Jan and Marianna had children together it mybe possible to get in contact for more information.
The grandchild of Jan has taken a DNA test and have 25 % Jewish ancestry. If the grandchilds mother (has taken a DNAtest) and grandmother (his fathers mother) has no Jewish ancestry it must be on the grandfathers side.
So wrong deathdate or wrong father??
This is a document I found via Ancestry. He was born 20 October 1907 but still the correct birthplace Groty.

Thank you for helping me!

70670929_1, Jan Milewski.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

297.41 KB

Viewed:

0 Time(s)

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 12:49 pm Post subject:

Hello,
This sounds mystical. I think we have the right Jan Milewski. First name, last name, date of birth, place of birth are correct.
Groty, Zakroczym, Warszawa, Kwidzyn, Wroclaw, Gryfino, Potok. There are huge distances between these places.
I know that Jan's wife survived him. So it will be interesting to see who reports his death. Contact the Kwidzyn Registry Office and church and check this. Church registration could have given us answers about who he left behind. I see that there are 5 churches in Kwidzyn, but only two can be relevant. The rest were built later.
Also since the mother did not live with the father of the son born in 1951, she could theoretically name anyone as the child's father. Everything you know about the father of the child (1951) comes from the Registry Office in Wroclaw (right?). What about the church? Have you checked it? It is possible that they have noted something interesting. 1951 is the starting year for all searches.
This document from Ancestry, what is this? Who are these people mentioned in this document.
I can see what I can find about Jan's parents and grandparents. If there are any Jewish names, at least from the mother's / grandmother's side.
-Barb

viskaleta

Joined: 17 Mar 2023
Replies: 17

Back to top

Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:05 pm Post subject: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

Arolsen Archives. Registration of Foreigners and German Persecutees by Public Institutions, Social Securities and Companies (1939-1947). Bad Arolsen, Germany.

Europa, Registrierung von Ausländern und deutschen Verfolgten, 1939-1947

In the birth certificate of Jans son born 1951, it is Jan that report the birth.

I will try to write to the place you told me tomorrow.

BarbOslo
PO Top Contributor

Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1125
Location: Norway
Back to top

Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:59 pm Post subject:

Hi,
Hard to believe. This is exciting. A person who is "actually" dead reports the child's birth. Where is the error? It will be interesting to hear what answer you get. Delete the birth document from the forum as it concerns a person who may still be alive.
-Barb

viskaleta

Joined: 17 Mar 2023
Replies: 17

Back to top

Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 12:59 am Post subject: Searching a man from Groty, Warsaw

I hope I have deleted it now. Do you think I shall delete more of the text in the forum too?

PolishOrigins Forum