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jangle1

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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:16 pm Post subject: Miazga/Masgay and Dedo Family Help

Hi everyone! I’m new here and was elated to discover this website and forum. I have done some family research on and off and this is basically the gist of what I’ve been able to find, minus details I didn’t think would be relevant. Using FamilySearch, family knowledge, and Ancestry, this is where I have been stuck. I am still learning to use Geneteka and other resources looking for other records and their parents and residences before immigrating. I have seen some lengthy posts and if this is too much please comment and I will remove some. If anyone would be willing and able to help identify any parents or villages/residences of these 2, I would be eternally grateful, which gets said a lot, but it really is true! I’ve been stuck to this point for a while now and anything more at all would be so amazing to me.
I will attach several documents that will hopefully be helpful!

Paternal grandmother’s grandparents (Father’s side):

--Lawrence Masgay: Born September 1857 in Austria and died on 17 March 1925, in Luzerne Pennsylvania at the age of 67. I have seen his nationality as both “Austrian” and “Polish” but it appears language always shows up as “Polish.” His father’s birthplace is listed as “Russia” and mother’s is “Austria.” But in the 1910 Census both are listed as “Austria.” He had at least 3 sons and 4 daughters. The youngest boy, Walter 1908-1957, is my great grandfather. It appears that Lawrence immigrated to the US at age 27 in 1885. If I’m correct, it appears he might have used the name Waizynies Miazga when marrying Jadwiga Dedo on 22 June 1887 in Luzerne PA. I am familiar with the last name Miazga, Masgay, Masgi, Mazgay as being related to this person/family. I have seen his first name as Lawrence, Waizynies, and Wawrzeniec.

--Louisa Dedo: Born in August 1865 in Austria and died on 14 February 1947 in Nanticoke, Luzerne, PA at the age of 81. Mother and Father’s birthplaces are both listed as “Austria,” but also in “Poland” in some sources. She immigrated through NY City in 1886 and is also listed as having 3 sons and 4 daughters and married to Lawrence on 22 June, 1887 at age 21. I have seen her name appear as Jadwiga on some occasions and on the “New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1891” it appears she is even listed as male under the name “Jadwiga Dedo.” Not sure what the Louisa/Jadwiga switch is about. She married Lawrence Masgay in 1887.

Thank you in advance for any help! I would of course be willing to help monetarily for help/translating help Very Happy

-Jerry

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dnowicki
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Miazga/Masgay and Dedo Family Help

jangle1 wrote:

-Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Perhaps a bit of history may help you to make sense of what you find in documents from the USA. During the late 18th century the Polish—Lithuanian Commonwealth had been partitioned and Russia, Prussia and Austria each took parts of the Commonwealth and after the final partition in 1795 Poland was wiped off the map of Europe. Ethnic Poles politically identified as subjects of the empires which had seized the territory where they lived.

I would offer a bit of advice for what you can do on this side of the pond in order to identify the locations where your ancestors lived in Europe. Although Genetyka is a very valuable resource not every Parish in Poland has been indexed on that site. Since knowing the parish where your ancestors lived in Europe is key to successful research it is important to learn the name of the parish in order to locate records for your ancestors in Europe.

If you look carefully at the civil marriage license you posted at the very bottom you will find the return which was filled out by the priest who witnessed the marriage. Your ancestors were married in the town of Plymouth, PA. There were two Roman Catholic parishes in the area which served Polish immigrants. One Parish was in Plymouth itself and the second was in East Plymouth. It would make sense that they were married in the parish in the town of Plymouth itself. That Parish was the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary and it had been founded several years before their wedding. Since the couple and the priest both spoke Polish the information in the parish marriage register is usually more accurate than what you find in the civil register. Very often the marriage register contains detailed information about where the individuals lived in Europe. I would recommend that you contact the Parish Church in Pennsylvania and request a copy of the actual entry in the parish register, which could offer you a good chance of idenifying where your ancestors lived in Europe.

The parish of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary has merged twice and is now part of the new parish of All Saints but the marriage registers of all the parishes which were merged to form the new parish should be held by All Saints. Here is a link which gives a brief history of Nativity Parish https://liturgicalcenter.org/pl/parish-599 and here is a link to All Saints whichalso contains contact info https://allsaintsplymouth.com/history

Wishing you success,

Dave

BarbOslo
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:58 am Post subject:

Hi Jerry,
Dave has provided you with historical help and advice.
It is not an easy job. Surnames for both give the most hits for podkarpackie. It also mentions the passenger list for Jadwiga and the census from 1910. They wrote Austria for the place they come from. Genetyka does not give any hits for the year 1857 or 1868.
For your information, explanation with first name
WAWRZYNIEC (Polish), LAURENZ, LORENZ (German) LAWRENCE (English)
JADWIGA (Polish), HEDVIG, HEDVIGIS (German)
LUDWIKA (Polish), LOUISE
Sophia, Trish are you able to find passenger list for Wawrzyniec Miazga? In order to help, we need a specific location.
Regards,
-Barb

jangle1

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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:53 am Post subject: Miazga/Masgay and Dedo Family Help

Hi Dave and Barb!

Dave,
Thank you so much for providing some information and historical context for me! I really appreciate it. It is so awesome to be able to learn new information about them and the times in which they lived. I have been reading lots of articles and papers about the history of Poland/Lithuania since the partitions and it is all very fascinating to me! I was able to call the number from the link you included and spoke to a nice lady there who referred me to the Northeast Pennsylvania Genealogical Society. Looking at the files they have, it seems that they have Nativity BVM, Blessed Virgin Mary, records titled “Nativity BVN PLY Comb Bp Cn 1885-1906, Bp M 1885-1952, Cn D 1886-1954, and M D 1885-1910.” Unfortunately, records are not viewable online, so I will have to submit a form with some of the information from my original post and specify that I would like the records from above searched. They say to allow 4-6 weeks for results. I am so happy to have a next step even if it takes a month or so! Thank you so much for finding the information about the parishes and pointing me in the right direction, I’m so happy to not be stuck at a dead end!

Barb,
Thank you so much for providing some explanations for the names and for taking a look for me, even if Genetyka didn’t give any hits. I have tried searching by name for Wawrzyniec/Wawrzeniec/Lawrence with Miazga and variations, but have not been able to find his name on any passenger lists, but the 1910 census lists his immigration year as 1885. I am going through the New York Passenger Lists 1820-1891 right now, trying to see if I can manually find his name. There are lots of pages, but hopefully I will be able to find something. Do you think looking in New York is the right next step?

I will keep looking on both fronts! Thank you both so much for taking the time to try and help me! Any other advice/tips/help is always so much appreciated and I will try to update if I find anything!

Trish
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:41 pm Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi Everyone!
Barb, I didn't find a manifest yet for Wawrzyniec. However, I think I might have found his brother, Stefan. Stefan was going to see his brother in Plymouth. He is on line #9.

Name: Stefan Miazga
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Galician
Marital status: Single
Age: 40
Birth Date: abt 1857
Last Known Residence: Werynia
Place of Origin: Galicia
Departure Port: Bremen
Arrival Date: 17 Nov 1897
Arrival Port: New York, New York, USA
Residence Place: Wergnia
Final Destination: Plymouth, Pennsylvania
Money in Possession: $8.00
Person in US Relationship: Brother
Ship Name: Kaiser Wilhelm Der Grosse

Hope this helps!
Trish

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BarbOslo
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:08 pm Post subject:

Trish wrote:

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi Trish, Jerry od Dave,

It could fit. Stefan was born ab. 1853, and he is 4 years older than Wawrzyniec. He gives Wawrzyniec as brother and destination as Plymouth. He comes from Galicia, and the place called Werynia. See map.

- Barb

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Trish
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Miazga/Masgay and Dedo Family Help

jangle1 wrote:

--Lawrence Masgay: Born September 1857 in Austria and died on 17 March 1925, in Luzerne Pennsylvania at the age of 67. I have seen his nationality as both “Austrian” and “Polish” but it appears language always shows up as “Polish.” His father’s birthplace is listed as “Russia” and mother’s is “Austria.” But in the 1910 Census both are listed as “Austria.” He had at least 3 sons and 4 daughters. The youngest boy, Walter 1908-1957, is my great grandfather. It appears that Lawrence immigrated to the US at age 27 in 1885. If I’m correct, it appears he might have used the name Waizynies Miazga when marrying Jadwiga Dedo on 22 June 1887 in Luzerne PA. I am familiar with the last name Miazga, Masgay, Masgi, Mazgay as being related to this person/family. I have seen his first name as Lawrence, Waizynies, and Wawrzeniec.

--Louisa Dedo: Born in August 1865 in Austria and died on 14 February 1947 in Nanticoke, Luzerne, PA at the age of 81. Mother and Father’s birthplaces are both listed as “Austria,” but also in “Poland” in some sources. She immigrated through NY City in 1886 and is also listed as having 3 sons and 4 daughters and married to Lawrence on 22 June, 1887 at age 21. I have seen her name appear as Jadwiga on some occasions and on the “New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1891” it appears she is even listed as male under the name “Jadwiga Dedo.” Not sure what the Louisa/Jadwiga switch is about. She married Lawrence Masgay in 1887.
-Jerry

Hi Everyone,

Per the death certificate for Wawrzyniec Mazgay, it states his father's name is Michael and mother's name is unknown.

Name Wauszycowi Mazgay
Gender Male
Race White
Death Age 59
Birth Date abt 1866
Birth Place Poland
Death Date 17 Mar 1925
Death Place Plymouth, Luzerne, Pennsylvania, USA
Father
Micheal Mazgay
Certificate Number 25110

Per the death certificate for LJadwiga Dedo Mazgay, it states her father's name is John Dedo and mother's name is unknown. The record also states she died in 1948 not 1947.

Name Jadwiga Mazgay
[Jadwiga Dedo]
Gender Female
Race White
Death Age 76
Birth Date 1872
Birth Place Poland
Death Date 14 Feb 1948
Death Place Plymouth, Luzerne, Pennsylvania, USA
Father
John Dedo
Certificate Number 15223

Regards,
Trish

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Trish
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Miazga/Masgay and Dedo Family Help

jangle1 wrote:

--Louisa Dedo: Born in August 1865 in Austria and died on 14 February 1947 in Nanticoke, Luzerne, PA at the age of 81. Mother and Father’s birthplaces are both listed as “Austria,” but also in “Poland” in some sources. She immigrated through NY City in 1886 and is also listed as having 3 sons and 4 daughters and married to Lawrence on 22 June, 1887 at age 21. I have seen her name appear as Jadwiga on some occasions and on the “New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1891” it appears she is even listed as male under the name “Jadwiga Dedo.” Not sure what the Louisa/Jadwiga switch is about. She married Lawrence Masgay in 1887.

Hi Everyone,
I found this manifest, but it doesn't make sense. The name matches Jadwiga. The age matches Jadwiga. The arrival basically matches when she came per the census records. However, it states she is a "male" and not a female. No town is listed. What is everyone's opinion on this?

Regards,
Trish

Name: Jadwiga Dedo
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Austrian
Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1868
Place of Origin: Austria
Departure Port: Bremen, Germany
Destination: USA
Arrival Date: 6 Sep 1886
Arrival Port: New York, New York, USA
Ship Name: Aller

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BarbOslo
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:34 pm Post subject:

Good news, Trish. We are a step ahead. The death certificates give fathers' names.
It's Jadwiga. Jerry attached her manifest. I guess it's a typo with male / female. This does not give us any new information.

-Barb

BarbOslo
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:39 pm Post subject:

Werynia belongs to the parish of Kolbuszowa. Kolbuszowa is indexed. I can see the surname Miazga, but nothing matches Stefan, Warzyniec or Michal.
-Barb

Sophia
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:14 am Post subject:

Hi Everyone,
Thanks to the two death records that Trish posted, you will see that both Jadwiga and Wawrzyniec were members not of a Roman Catholic Church, but rather of the Polish National Catholic Church, specifically the Good Shepherd parish, at the time of their deaths. It does not appear that this church was formed yet, at the time of their marriage so do continue looking in Roman Catholic churches for the marriage record. Like many people of their generation in this part of Pennsylvania (and elsewhere in the country), if they were part of the PNCC, they would have been RC before that.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia

Sophia
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:12 pm Post subject:

Hi again everyone,
I understand how you can look at the various forms of the surname that Jerry has provided for Wawrzyniec (Lawrence) and decide to pursue records for the surname MIAZGA. However, I would like to offer another suggestion, and that is MAZGAJ. First of all, it seems to me a more logical progression from Mazgaj to Masgay. Secondly, I would point out that the manifest posted above for Stefan Miazga says he is going to his brother, but on the manifest it actually does not give his brother's first name, so I'm not quite ready to agree that this is Wawrzyniec's brother.
Both surnames, Miazga and Mazgaj, are used by Poles.
Jerry, these two links will take you to surname distribution maps so you can see where people with those surnames were living:
https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Mazgaj
https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Miazga
If you look just beneath the map, you see a long list of town names and next to each is the number of people in that town with the surname. Also, if you look at the map and magnify it with the + key, you will see a more and more detailed distribution of these towns. Hope this helps you.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia

Additional info, on July 24th:
I thought you might also like to see the surname distribution for DEDO:
https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Dedo
It is a much rarer name.
Best,
Sophia

Last edited by Sophia on Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total

jangle1

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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:07 pm Post subject: Miazga/Masgay and Dedo Family Help

Hi everyone! Thank you all so much for your time, contributions, and for helping me on this journey, I really appreciate it and feel very grateful to have learned so much in the last couple days!

Trish,
Thank you so much for all your help! I’m so blown away that you were able to find Stefan likely visiting Wawrzyniec in Plymouth! That looks very likely to me and is so cool! I’m also so amazed that you were able to find the death certificates! I’m so grateful to learn a little more about them and see the names of their fathers. Thank you so much for your assistance!

Barb,
Thank you for all of your input and helping it make sense! Thank you also for your help in locating Werynia and the Parish that he likely would’ve belonged to. It is so amazing to learn the areas/places where they might have lived and the culture and history of those locations too!

Sophia,
Thank you for the tip about the RC vs PNCC churches! I had noticed it said that on the death records, but wasn’t sure the actual difference between the two. This info is super interesting and very handy, thank you! I will keep investigating RC churches for the marriage record.

Looking at Stefan and Wawrzyniec it looks like;

Stefan: born about 1857 or about 1853

Wawrzyniec: born about 1855 according to 1910 Census (age was listed as 55 in 1910) However, on death certificate he is listed as being 59 in 1925, with a birthdate about 1866.

So, Stefan could be anywhere from 2 to 13 years older than Wawrzyniec. I’m not sure how probable it is, but I did find a record on Geneteka for a Stefan Miazga born in 1860 to Mikołaj and Marianna Dziubek in the parish and place of Przewrotne. This record is the only Stefan Miazga that I see on Geneteka with a close enough birthdate. I also found one for Zofia Miazga born 1875, also to Mikołaj and Marianna Dziubek and in Przewrotne. It appears that Stefan and Zofia are siblings at least. But, could Wawrzyniec be their brother?

Do you all think it possible that the Stefan that Trish found was living in Werynia but not from there and was actually from Przewrotne? If I have the right places, they look pretty close to each other.

Also, in Wawzyniec’s death certificate the father’s name is listed as Michael. Do you think it is possible that the informant mistook Mikołaj as Michael or made a similar mistake in regards to the name?

I still have not been able to find much on Jadwiga or her father and am not sure where to head next in respect to her.

Thank you all so much again!!
-Jerry

Sophia
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:43 pm Post subject:

Hi Jerry,
May I suggest that you wait until you hear from the genealogical society who holds the church records, before you get too far along on the path of accepting Stefan Miazga as being related to you. The marriage record should make it clearer what the family's original surname was (as you see from my other post, above, I have some doubt about Miazga) and hopefully will also tell you where they are from.
The death records seem quite solid, as being your family. You may need to take ages in death records with a little grain of salt.
All the best,
Sophia

dnowicki
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Miazga/Masgay and Dedo Family Help

jangle1 wrote:

Hi, Jerry, Sophia, Barb, & Trish,

Franciszek Hodur, who was born in Galicia aka Austrian Poland, immigrated to the USA and was ordained a Roman Catholic priest in 1893, and served as a Roman Catholic priest in Pennsylvania was the founder of the Polish National Catholic Church in1897. The Roman Catholic hierarchy in the United States was dominated by Irish and German Bishops during the late 19th Century. This was a completely normal situation given that Irish and German Catholics had arrived in the United States in large numbers prior to the beginning of the American Civil War. The Polish peasant immigration to the USA did not begin in large numbers until after the Civil War, especially from 1870 on. Hodur was one of the group of Roman Catholic clerics who felt that Poles should be represented by Polish bishops in the United States and of course Hodur felt that he should be the first Roman Catholic bishop of Polish descent despite the fact that he had only been a priest for four years. When he did not become a bishop he broke away from the Roman Catholic Church and founded the Polish National Catholic church in 1897. Another grievance which appealed to the laity involved the control of church property by parish trustees rather than by the bishop of the diocese. In order to perpetuate the new church he had himself ordained as a bishop by bishops of the Old Catholic Church in Utrecht so that he could validly ordain priests and bishops for the Polish National Catholic Church. The Old Catholic Church broke away from the Roman Catholic Church in a schism following the First Vatican Council in 1871 over the definition of Papal Infallibility by the Council

The first RC bishop of Polish descent was Paweł (Paul P.) Rhode, who was ordained as an auxiliary bishop for the Archdiocese of Chicago in 1909But it happened to someone else not to him. He had served as the pastor of Saint Michael the Archangel Catholic Church in South Chicago from 1897 until he was appointed as the bishop of Green Bay Wisconsin in 1915. Saint Michael Paris is the parish where I grew up and father Rhode officiated at the wedding of my maternal grandparents in 1903.What Hodur wanted came to pass 12 years after he split from the Roman Catholic Church but it happened to someone else not to him.

During the late 19th Century most Polish priests who served in the USA were born and ordained in Europe. It was only after the polish community in the USA had become well established that the sons of immigrants studied for the priesthood and were ordained in America.

Father Wacław Kruszka in his Historya Polska w Ameryce provides detailed information about Polish parishes in the USA. Information about the Parish of the Nativity of the BVM in Plymouth, PA is found on pages 91&92 of Tom 12 ROZDZIAL IV. POLACY W PENNSYLVANII. The book has been digitized and is available online from Harvard University https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:4256276$2128i
Unfortunately, It is probably of little use for those who are unable to read the Polish language. The gist of the entry is that the parish was founded in 1884 and served both Poles and Lithuanians who resided in Plymouth. The priest who officiated at the marriage of Wawrzyniec and Jadwiga was the second pastor of the parish and was of Lithuanian descent. The bottom line is that they were members of the Roman Catholic Church until at least 1897.

Attached our maps of Galicia AKA Austrian Poland and the kingdom of Poland AKA Russian Poland.

Wishing you much success,

Dave

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