jmcenaney
Joined: 22 Dec 2020
Replies: 58
Location: Etna, NH, USABack to top |
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:33 pm
Post subject: more from the Schalkenbachs of Trier
Hi, Michael.
I have a document from a source called "Trier, Germany, Births, 1798-1904". It is not a filled in form but a fully handwritten entry. It is just over one page and I'm curious as to the nature of the entry and why it is so long. If you could just give me the basics --- is it really a birth record? for the birth of whom? --- I would greatly appreciate it. I'm not going to ask for a full translation until I know it's relevant to my ancestors.
I do see the names Schalkenbach and Neusius repeatedly. Peter Schalkenbach (1730-1807) is my 5th great grandfather and his wife is Anna Maria Elizabeth Neusius is my 5th great grandmother. I have very little information about her. They had six children, two of which died young.
Thank you!
Jaime
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:11 pm
Post subject: Re: more from the Schalkenbachs of Trier
| jmcenaney wrote: | Hi, Michael.
I have a document from a source called "Trier, Germany, Births, 1798-1904". It is not a filled in form but a fully handwritten entry. It is just over one page and I'm curious as to the nature of the entry and why it is so long. If you could just give me the basics --- is it really a birth record? for the birth of whom? --- I would greatly appreciate it. I'm not going to ask for a full translation until I know it's relevant to my ancestors.
I do see the names Schalkenbach and Neusius repeatedly. Peter Schalkenbach (1730-1807) is my 5th great grandfather and his wife is Anna Maria Elizabeth Neusius is my 5th great grandmother. I have very little information about her. They had six children, two of which died young.
Thank you!
Jaime |
Hi Jaime,
In the First French Republic and First French Empire Trier was the capital of the Sarre department. Named after the river Saar (French: Sarre), it was created in 1798 in the aftermath of the Treaty of Campo Formio of 18 October 1797 which ceded the left bank of the Rhine to France. After Napoleon was defeated in 1814, most of the department became part of Prussia.
The French introduced with the Code civil or Code Napoléon vital records (which were continued by Prussia). The document you provided is a birth record in accordance to the Code civil.
The French also introduced the French Revolutionary calendar for about 12 years from late 1793 to 1805 instead of the Gregorian calendar. Hence this document was filed on 27 Frimaire of the year Seven of the French Republic, or on the 17 December 1798.
The wording of these birth records is very tortuous and circuitous. The first eight lines just introduce the registrar and his important task (compare the next document, it’s the same again). Beside the registrar (Johan Jakob Trost) you will find
- the informant and father (Peter Schalkenbach),
- two witnesses: Peter Neusius, a mason, 36 years old and brother of the child’s mother, and Nicolaus Schalkenbach, 32 years old,
- the mother Anna Elisabeth Neusius (she was not present),
- and the child Nicolaus Schalkenbach (he was presented to the registrar).
Finally Peter Schalkenbach and Peter Neusius signed with their mark, Nicolaus Schalkenbach and the registrar signed the document.
Best regards and Merry Christmas
Michael
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jmcenaney
Joined: 22 Dec 2020
Replies: 58
Location: Etna, NH, USABack to top |
Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:48 pm
Post subject:
You found my post even though I posted it in the wrong thread! Thank you for all of the context here -- this is the stuff I crave. Did the document provide ages for Peter or Anna? I have Peter as born in 1730 based on an indexed record I've never seen the original of. And this Nicolaus character -- if he was born in 1766, he'd be too young to be Peter's brother. Maybe he's a nephew. Tough to say as I don't know of any other family members of Peter besides his wife and children. Learning Anna had a brother Peter is a big win as I know so little about her as well. Finally, can you tell me where Peter and Peter signed with their marks? I see Trost and Schalkenbach. Is it to the left and above Trost where it looks like there are two X's? How great is it to see something handwritten by an ancestor over 200 years ago! Actually, one more question --- what does it say in the top right hand corner of the second page? Google Translate can't even decide what language it is. Thank you again, Michael. I hope you have a merry and relaxing holiday. 
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Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:06 am
Post subject:
| jmcenaney wrote: | | You found my post even though I posted it in the wrong thread! Thank you for all of the context here -- this is the stuff I crave. Did the document provide ages for Peter or Anna? I have Peter as born in 1730 based on an indexed record I've never seen the original of. And this Nicolaus character -- if he was born in 1766, he'd be too young to be Peter's brother. Maybe he's a nephew. Tough to say as I don't know of any other family members of Peter besides his wife and children. Learning Anna had a brother Peter is a big win as I know so little about her as well. Finally, can you tell me where Peter and Peter signed with their marks? I see Trost and Schalkenbach. Is it to the left and above Trost where it looks like there are two X's? How great is it to see something handwritten by an ancestor over 200 years ago! Actually, one more question --- what does it say in the top right hand corner of the second page? Google Translate can't even decide what language it is. Thank you again, Michael. I hope you have a merry and relaxing holiday. |
Jaime,
Your questions:
Did the document provide ages for Peter or Anna?
Peter Schalkenbach was “Drey und Siebenzig” or 73 years old, Anna’s age is not provided. I’ve seen deviations between 5 and 10 years in various documents regarding the same person, hence it might be possible, that Peter was born in 1730.
Can you tell me where Peter and Peter signed with their marks? I see Trost and Schalkenbach. Is it to the left and above Trost where it looks like there are two X's?
Yes, there are the two lines above “Trost” which read (the upper one): “Hand [x] zeichen Peter Schalkenbach” and (the lower one): “Hand [+] zeichen Peter Neusius”.
What does it say in the top right hand corner of the second page?
It’s the French trente-neuvième or the 39th – probably page of the vital records book.
Best
Michael
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