Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:54 am
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Thank you! I see Jan's birth record there! This is wonderful.
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:57 am
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I see it! Thank you so much. I am so excited to start shaping my family tree on the Polish side. Amazing!
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1127
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:52 am
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| KB773 wrote: | | I see it! Thank you so much. I am so excited to start shaping my family tree on the Polish side. Amazing! |
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1127
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 2:02 pm
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Hallo Mary,
Here is the translation of Jan's birth record.
No. 34 Bętlewo Mostowe
It happened in the village of Mokowo, on March 21st/April 2nd, 1854, at 2 p.m.
Appeared personally Marian Kuczmarski, a peasant, 28 years old, living in Bętlewo, in the presence of Maciej Kostrzewski, 50 years old and Szymon Szczepankoski, 45 years old, both peasants, living in Bętlewo Mostowe and presented Us a newborn male child, who was born in Bętlewo Mostowe on March 17th / 29th at 4 a.m. to his legal wife, Małgorzata nee Kostrzewska, 30 years old.
At The Holy Baptism, held today the child was given the name Jan, and the godparents were Jan Kuczmarski and Franciszka Kuczmarska.
This act was read to the declarant and the witnesses, who were illiterate, and it was signed by Us only.
Priest Ignacy Urbanowicz, the Mokowo parish-priest, serving as Civil Registrar.
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 3:10 pm
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Thanks for sending the map and the translation. This is so beyond my expectations on what I'd find for my Polish family tree.
I am so happy to also report that my attempts to translate Jan's birth record were pretty close to your translation, so I am making progress!
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1147
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Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:13 am
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| KB773 wrote: | Thank you Sophia!
The first thing I’ve been doing on Geneteka is changing it to English—I didn’t realize that it could change some search results. This is so good to know. I will keep it in Polish from now on.
I will follow up on the Kwityng anomalies. I’ve been sorting by name by clicking the little blue arrow next to ‘Nazwisko’, and then double checking to make sure it’s alphabetical in the results. Please let me know if there is a better way of sorting results.
One question: do you or anyone else know how to find the records for the parish of Betlewo in Mokow? (Marianna’s husband’s father, Jan Kuczmarski is from there). I found this reference to the parishes:
https://stephendanko.com/blog/7971
but I do not see anything resembling ‘Betlowo’.
Any and all tips are so appreciated! Thank you!
Mary |
Hi Mary,
Glad to know that you are making such great progress with using Geneteka. You've found the way of sorting results, it is the same way that I do it. Also, I see Barb has already answered the part of your question that had to do with the record from Betlewo. Great!
I have continued thinking about your Kwityng family. This surname was certainly rare in Poland, and I wonder whether any information about it has been passed along in your family history. Might they have come to Poland from another country, and the Kwityng spelling was used as a Polish approximation of the surname which was originally in another language? While I was mulling that over, I did a little thinking-outside-the-box exercise, and decided to use Geneteka to search the Skepe parish for all births where the father's name was Marian (without specifying his surname) and the mother's maiden name was Aniela Gajewska. Take a look:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=02kp&rid=3787&search_lastname=&search_name=Marian&search_lastname2=Gajewska&search_name2=Aniela&from_date=&to_date=
What you see, reading from the bottom up, is the birth of Wiktoria Kwityng in 1864 and her sister Anastazja Stanislawa Kwityng in 1862. I consider Antonina Kwityn, born 1859, to also be a sister. What intrigues me are the three children listed above them, now with the surname Kwiatkowski/a. What are the chances that there were two women named Antonina Gajewska, in the same village, both with a husband named Marian whose last name began Kwi.... and both having children in the same timeframe? Or is this all one family, with a surname changing from Kwiatkowski to Kwityng sometime between 1856 and 1859? I do not see any connection between the names Kwiatkowski and Kwityng, no similarity in the linguistic root as far as I know, so this is a bit of a stretch. However, if you are curious, you could look at these six records and see whether the ages of the parents are provided in each birth record, and determine whether they age (approximately) correctly from 1849 to 1864.
Best of luck in your continued research,
Sophia
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Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2024 5:25 pm
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This is intriguing and a wonderful project for me to look into! My grandfather died young and my grandmother didn't talk about him, so nothing was passed down about his side of the family.
This must be the same family Kwiatkowski/Kwityng....I can see I have some work to do! Thank you again. This is a good mystery!
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Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:09 am
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[quote="Sophia"] | KB773 wrote: |
What you see, reading from the bottom up, is the birth of Wiktoria Kwityng in 1864 and her sister Anastazja Stanislawa Kwityng in 1862. I consider Antonina Kwityn, born 1859, to also be a sister. What intrigues me are the three children listed above them, now with the surname Kwiatkowski/a. What are the chances that there were two women named Antonina Gajewska, in the same village, both with a husband named Marian whose last name began Kwi.... and both having children in the same timeframe? Or is this all one family, with a surname changing from Kwiatkowski to Kwityng sometime between 1856 and 1859? I do not see any connection between the names Kwiatkowski and Kwityng, no similarity in the linguistic root as far as I know, so this is a bit of a stretch. However, if you are curious, you could look at these six records and see whether the ages of the parents are provided in each birth record, and determine whether they age (approximately) correctly from 1849 to 1864.
Best of luck in your continued research,
Sophia |
I did my homework and searched the records. It was a great learning project for me.
I found all but the 1849 record for Marianna. Unfortunately, it didn't clear anything up! The ages of Marian and Aniela do not correspond chronologically. BUT, the godparents are often (not always) the same names for each child (a Lewandowski and a Tomaszyski reappear regularly as godparents.)
I was hoping it was a typo, because there is one Kwityng that is illegible, and was transcribed as Kwiatkowski (Jan's record 1854), but the following record 1856, the name is clear as day 'Kwiatkowski', not Kwityng.
This may remain a mystery, but if anyone has any suggestions about what they would do next in a situation like this, please let me know! Also, any leads on finding 1849 records for Skepe would be great.
Thank you very much for getting me this far!!!
Mary
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Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:13 am
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This is the image from Jan Kwiatkowski's birth record in which I thought maybe the father's name was Kwityng because the handwriting is practically illegible. (But for the following year, 1856, his name is clearly written as Kwiatkowski.)
Mary
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1127
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:47 pm
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[quote="KB773"] | Sophia wrote: | | KB773 wrote: |
What you see, reading from the bottom up, is the birth of Wiktoria Kwityng in 1864 and her sister Anastazja Stanislawa Kwityng in 1862. I consider Antonina Kwityn, born 1859, to also be a sister. What intrigues me are the three children listed above them, now with the surname Kwiatkowski/a. What are the chances that there were two women named Antonina Gajewska, in the same village, both with a husband named Marian whose last name began Kwi.... and both having children in the same timeframe? Or is this all one family, with a surname changing from Kwiatkowski to Kwityng sometime between 1856 and 1859? I do not see any connection between the names Kwiatkowski and Kwityng, no similarity in the linguistic root as far as I know, so this is a bit of a stretch. However, if you are curious, you could look at these six records and see whether the ages of the parents are provided in each birth record, and determine whether they age (approximately) correctly from 1849 to 1864.
Best of luck in your continued research,
Sophia |
I did my homework and searched the records. It was a great learning project for me.
I found all but the 1849 record for Marianna. Unfortunately, it didn't clear anything up! The ages of Marian and Aniela do not correspond chronologically. BUT, the godparents are often (not always) the same names for each child (a Lewandowski and a Tomaszyski reappear regularly as godparents.)
I was hoping it was a typo, because there is one Kwityng that is illegible, and was transcribed as Kwiatkowski (Jan's record 1854), but the following record 1856, the name is clear as day 'Kwiatkowski', not Kwityng.
This may remain a mystery, but if anyone has any suggestions about what they would do next in a situation like this, please let me know! Also, any leads on finding 1849 records for Skepe would be great.
Thank you very much for getting me this far!!!
Mary |
Hallo,
I think it was a mistake. Kwiatkowski is the correct surname.
Do you want this birth record?
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=B&w=02kp&rid=3787&search_lastname=kwiatkowska&search_name=marianna&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1849&to_date=1849
-Barb
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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:36 am
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Thank you, that makes sense. I will start looking into the Kwiatkowski lineage now (but I will still keep an eye out for any Kwityng in the records just in case!)
I don't necessarily need that record, but thanks again. I'm sure I will be asking many more questions as I delve deeper!
Mary
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1147
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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:13 pm
Post subject:
[quote="KB773"] | Sophia wrote: | | KB773 wrote: |
What you see, reading from the bottom up, is the birth of Wiktoria Kwityng in 1864 and her sister Anastazja Stanislawa Kwityng in 1862. I consider Antonina Kwityn, born 1859, to also be a sister. What intrigues me are the three children listed above them, now with the surname Kwiatkowski/a. What are the chances that there were two women named Antonina Gajewska, in the same village, both with a husband named Marian whose last name began Kwi.... and both having children in the same timeframe? Or is this all one family, with a surname changing from Kwiatkowski to Kwityng sometime between 1856 and 1859? I do not see any connection between the names Kwiatkowski and Kwityng, no similarity in the linguistic root as far as I know, so this is a bit of a stretch. However, if you are curious, you could look at these six records and see whether the ages of the parents are provided in each birth record, and determine whether they age (approximately) correctly from 1849 to 1864.
Best of luck in your continued research,
Sophia |
I did my homework and searched the records. It was a great learning project for me.
I found all but the 1849 record for Marianna. Unfortunately, it didn't clear anything up! The ages of Marian and Aniela do not correspond chronologically. BUT, the godparents are often (not always) the same names for each child (a Lewandowski and a Tomaszyski reappear regularly as godparents.)
I was hoping it was a typo, because there is one Kwityng that is illegible, and was transcribed as Kwiatkowski (Jan's record 1854), but the following record 1856, the name is clear as day 'Kwiatkowski', not Kwityng.
This may remain a mystery, but if anyone has any suggestions about what they would do next in a situation like this, please let me know! Also, any leads on finding 1849 records for Skepe would be great.
Thank you very much for getting me this far!!!
Mary |
Hi Mary,
So happy to know that you are keeping up with your research. Let me help you with one little detail, regarding the 1849 birth record. If you look at what FamilySearch shows as church records for Skepe, you get this page:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=4454974&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Poland%2C%20Kuyavia-Pomerania%2C%20Lipno%2C%20Sk%C4%99pe%22&subjectsOpen=348753-50
And on it you see two choices. The first choice, which is likely the one you followed in your search, is "Kopie ksieg metrykalnych 1826-1883" and this is the COPY of the church records. In this collection, birth records for the year 1849 seem to be missing. The second choice is "ksieg metrykalnych 1722-1854" which is the ORIGINAL book of church records. If you look, you will see that the 1849 births are included.
Good luck,
Sophia
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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:25 pm
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Thank you--that is exactly what I did wrong. I chose the first record and didn't even try the second record there. This helps a lot!
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1147
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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:28 pm
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| KB773 wrote: | | Thank you--that is exactly what I did wrong. I chose the first record and didn't even try the second record there. This helps a lot! |
Well, Mary, you did exactly what I would have done. You wanted to look at a broad number of years so that you could see several family members, and the second set does not include much of what you needed to see. It is just a bit of bad luck that in the copy of the records, one year seems to have gotten lost.
If there is any overlap in the years covered by both sets of records, sometimes it is interesting to see how a record looks in both versions. They should contain identical information, of course, but human error shows up from time to time.
Leave no stone unturned! And best of luck in your search.
Sophia
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