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janedufault
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Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Replies: 21
Location: Westport, Massachusetts, USA

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:42 am      Post subject:
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I just joined and it was suggested I post this in the "forum" for a wider audience. If this is not the place for it, please let me know.

I have been searching for quite some time for information about my grandfather, Joseph Ziemba, who was born in Jazwiny, Poland. (Actually listed as Austria at that time in history---1878) I have information I have obtained from various sources...obituary, some now deceased relatives, and a few web sites but cannot find anything that verifies this info on any ancestry web sites. I have specifically researched in Poland but to no avail. He spoke fluent Polish.

I have tried broad searches and more exact searches but nothing seems to verfiy my info. This is probably the nature of this kind of research but I've become frustrated and confused. Is there any better approach I should be taking?

I have even zeroed in on church records in various parishes in Poland with no luck. I have also searched the Ellis Island website.

This is the info I have so far:

Joseph Ziemba
b. March 16, 1878
place: Jazwiny, Poland
Father: Wojciech (Albert) Ziemba
Mother: Eva Baran
Emigrated to USA 1901 S.S Rotterdam
Lived in Fall River and Westport, Massachusetts, USA from 1901 until his death in 1945.
He married Victoria Dziedzic and they had 12 children all born here in the USA. The records say they emigrated in 1901 but I have not found their names on any ship manifest even knowing it was the S. S. Rotterdam in 1901. There is no record of their marriage here in the USA so I'm assuming they got married before they left Poland but I cannot find any record of that either. Victoria was from Skurowa, Poland and I have her birth record and baptism listed as Przeczyca in 1881.

I was hoping to find info that verifies everything I have so far. I know there are still relatives living in Poland but the relatives that stayed in contact with them have passed away and any letters or correspondence with them is now lost.

Any suggestions as to how I should continue would be very appreciated!

Thank you,
Jane Dufault
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 496

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:17 pm      Post subject:
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Jane.
When you said that you have researched in Poland, do you mean that you have gone to Poland and looked at church records? It sounds like you have done your homework, and yes, it can be difficult. My advice would be to get as much documentation as you can. I know that there probably will be conflicting information, but the more you see will maybe give a more consistent picture.

I would also say to try not to assume anything. I thought my grandparents married in Chicago, that's where their first three children were born, but it turned out that the married in Hammond, Indiana, where they later lived again. My mom and her immediate family didn't know that. Her cousin knew that. I hadn't thought of asking her. If there's anyone else you can think of that might know something, ask them.

The 1910 census has the information that Joseph and Victoria were married for 8 years. I don't think that question was on the census in 1920. In 1930 it said that Joseph was 22 when he married, and Victoria was 16. He was 52 and she was 45 in 1930, so that would lead one to believe that they could have been married before immigrating in 1901, but of course the 1910 census doesn't agree.

Where did you find the name of the ship that Joseph arrived on? If it was citizenship papers, my grandfather was not only not on the ship that he named - there was no ship of that name on the date he supposedly arrived. Also, he had named two different arrival dates on different papers, and maybe two ship names as well. I think he came under his brother's name to avoid the Austrian draft. I did see a Jozef Ziemba who arrived in January 1901 that was about the right age as your Joseph. He wasn't from Jazwiny, but they didn't give a birth place on the ship manifest in 1901, only the place of last residence. I don't know if that is your Joseph, but I do know that even IF he and Victoria were already married, he probably would have arrived first to earn enough money to send for her. Also, IF John is their oldest child, age 7 in 1910, and 27 in 1930, then it seems that they were either separated by the ocean, or they didn't get married until 1902...

Do you know where John was baptized? In my grandparents case, there oldest child turned out not to be baptized in the same place where they married (where I chased around looking for). Maybe John was though.

I think it's a good thing to get your information on many message boards, because you never know who might know something. And keep asking questions. If you have more specific questions about where you looked, etc. someone here might know something.

Best of luck!
Cheri
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janedufault
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Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Replies: 21
Location: Westport, Massachusetts, USA

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:56 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks so much Cheri for your response and suggestions. You have given me new things to think about as I continue. If there is one thing I have learned, it's that there are numerous conflicting facts and you do have to sort them out by searching for more information. I travelled to Poland in Sept. for the first time and did some research prior to that, but I did not visit the village where my grandfather came from. That is hopefully what we will do on our next trip but I wanted to do as much research as possible before we do that.

I started with ancestry.com, heritage.com, family search.org, etc. and didn't really find anything about his time in Poland. Most of what I've learned about his background there came from his obituary and some relatives who are now deceased. I do have his naturalization papers and that's where I got he emigrated on the S.S. Rotterdam in 1901. Most of what I've found about his background in the USA was through the census reports.

My grandparents had their first child, John on Dec. 27, 1902 and they were living in Fall River, Mass. at the time. I do have his birth certificate. That's why I I figured the 1901 arrival date was probably accurate. There is no record of their marriage in Massachusetts...at least nothing that I have found yet so I started thinking they might have married in Poland.

I am most concerned about finding out his background in Poland right now and you have given me some things to think about. I thought they always listed where they were born on the manifest and didn't consider it might have their last residence instead. I never even thought of looking at another ship until now.

I have looked at church records but only on the internet. I'm sure the info is out there somewhere...I just need to keep looking and asking questions. I spent five months looking for my grandfather's parents' names on the internet only to find that info from the funeral parlor that took care of his funeral arrangements in 1945. That funeral parlor is literally 2 miles down the road from me! The answer was so close to me and I didn't realize it. lol

Thanks again for your suggestions. They will definitely help me.
Jane
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PolishLibrarian
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Joined: 28 Aug 2010
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:23 am      Post subject:
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Jane~ Just a couple of observations from the Ancestry.com resources. Joseph's age consistently reported with an implied birth date of 1878 & the birth date reported the same on WWI & WWII registrations. Place of birth Jażwiny – there are several, the first that came up on Mapquest is near Warsaw so that would be Russian Partition not Austria as he reported on the Census. I didn't check the others to see where they all on the Poland map. On the 1930 census Joseph is 52 and Victoria 45 and they report age at first marriage as 22 and 16 or 30 years before - that would mean 1900 & sometime after April 1. On the 1920 census they both report emigrating in 1901, so it looks like they came together and were married. Also in the 1910 census Victoria had given birth to 5 children but only 4 were living - ages 7, 5, 3 and 1 1/2,but here it says they've been married 8 years which would mean 1902 (I see there was a Zofia Dziedzic listed as a boarder - wonder if she was Victoria's sister. If John was born in 1902 then possibly they had another child before John who died by 1910. Again all speculation...but food for thought.

Did Joseph become a citizen before 1923 so that his wife also became a citizen when he did. Did his naturalization papers list Jażwiny as his birthplace?

I searched Steve Morse Gold and found a Jozef Ziemba who arrived Jan. 17th 1901, was 24 years old (1 year off) was from Galicy town of Świerchowa which is east of Nowy Sącz and very close to Jaslo (not Jażwiny), it looks like he's single and going to a friend in Hayfield PA (quite a ways from Mass.), sailed on the Karlsruhe from Bremen. So this may not be him. No luck finding a Wiktorya Ziemba. If she was from Przeczyca that just a little north of Jaslo and 20 miles from Świerchowa. No answers. ~PL
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janedufault
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Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Replies: 21
Location: Westport, Massachusetts, USA

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:51 am      Post subject:
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Thank you PL for your observations. I'm glad you mentioned about Zofia Dziedzic in the 1910 census. I had forgotten about her being listed there. Yes, she is Victoria's sister and the other people listed in the household were boarders.

You are definitely right about the number of children. She had a daughter, Mary in 1903 who died the following year from pneumonia. I know this from my father who told us this when we were growing up. I have visited her grave and the dates on the stone are 1903-1904.

I contacted Family Search and they directed me to catalog listings of microfilm...the Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages, and deaths for Jazwiny (Pilzno)m, Galizien, Austria; now Jazwiny (Debica), Rzeszow, Poland. This looks promising but I'm not sure how to do it. I've got to read up on it first. Have you ever ordered microfilm before?

Joseph's naturalization papers (declaration of intention) were signed in April 1911. Does this mean he was definitely an American citizen? I didn't think my grandmother was. If he became a citizen, did she automatically become one too? It did list Jazwiny as his birthplace.

Thanks for the info about the Steve Morse Gold site. I'm going to utilize this one. I have come across the Josef Ziemba who traveled to PA. I don't think that was him.

I have been lucky in locating my grandmother, Victoria Dziedzic Ziemba's records. I have her parents' names and all her siblings. She was from Skurowa and was baptized in Przeczyca. Her baptism was listed as 1881 but all other records state her birth was 1884. That date is more consistent with all other records.

Thanks so much for providing me with more info and "food for thought." Every little bit helps! I appreciate it so much.
Jane
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:39 am      Post subject:
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Sorry if you already know this. There are actually 4 separate microfilms at Family Search for Jazwiny:
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/710494?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Scroll down to see them, they include:
Akta urodzeń 1784-1805 (birth records)
Akta urodzeń 1803-1894 (birth record
Akta małżeństw 1790-1926 (records of marriages)
Akta zgonów 1784-1889 (death records)
You choose the film number that you want, and order it. It needs to be viewed at a local Family History Center (in a Church of the Latter Day Saints or sometimes a local library, on their site you can find the closest Center).

I've never ordered the film online. It's been awhile since I've been to a Center. Neither of my mom's parents' villages were filmed. You can go to a Center first if you'd like and see if they happen to have any of these films on long term loan. That happens when someone has rented the film a number of times, and a copy stays in your local Center I believe - which could have happened if other people from your area had ancestors from Jazwiny.

The church records will be in Latin, which isn't really hard to decipher when the records are in columns. I'm not sure the year they started being in columns. Usually the Center has a microfilm machine that makes copies, or some people have taken photos of the microfilm on the machine.

I'm confused about the other Jazwiny villages that show up on Google maps. You probably will want to start with one microfilm (probably the one that would have Jozef's birth) to make sure that this is the right village.

I'm not positive, but I think Ziemba could also be spelled Zięba. The hook under the e makes the m sound. So maybe you should be searching for that spelling as well.

As always, I welcome input on anything I've written in case I am wrong, or it needs more clarification.
Cheri
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Ute
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Joined: 13 Dec 2009
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:39 am      Post subject:
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janedufault wrote:
Thank you PL for your observations. I'm glad you mentioned about Zofia Dziedzic in the 1910 census. I had forgotten about her being listed there. Yes, she is Victoria's sister and the other people listed in the household were boarders.

You are definitely right about the number of children. She had a daughter, Mary in 1903 who died the following year from pneumonia. I know this from my father who told us this when we were growing up. I have visited her grave and the dates on the stone are 1903-1904.

I contacted Family Search and they directed me to catalog listings of microfilm...the Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages, and deaths for Jazwiny (Pilzno)m, Galizien, Austria; now Jazwiny (Debica), Rzeszow, Poland. This looks promising but I'm not sure how to do it. I've got to read up on it first. Have you ever ordered microfilm before?

Joseph's naturalization papers (declaration of intention) were signed in April 1911. Does this mean he was definitely an American citizen? I didn't think my grandmother was. If he became a citizen, did she automatically become one too? It did list Jazwiny as his birthplace.

Thanks for the info about the Steve Morse Gold site. I'm going to utilize this one. I have come across the Josef Ziemba who traveled to PA. I don't think that was him.

I have been lucky in locating my grandmother, Victoria Dziedzic Ziemba's records. I have her parents' names and all her siblings. She was from Skurowa and was baptized in Przeczyca. Her baptism was listed as 1881 but all other records state her birth was 1884. That date is more consistent with all other records.

Thanks so much for providing me with more info and "food for thought." Every little bit helps! I appreciate it so much.
Jane

Jane,
I'm researching the Obryk families from Przeczyca, Blaszkowa and nearby villages and found a Weronika Dziedzic whose father's name is indexed as 'Thomas Dziedzic' in her death record and as 'Antoni Dziedzic', mother Anna Handzel, in her church marriage record . According to the information I have she was born 03 Dec 1877, arrived 1905, and was living in Webster, Worcester, Massachusetts, in 1899 where she married Thomas Kozlowski. She later moved to Chicago and married Stanley Obryk in Aug 1909. Marriage witnesses were Joseph Dzeidzic and Victoria Dziedzic. She passed away in 1959. Just wondering if any of these names are familiar to you.

According to the 'Dziennik Chicagoski' Death Notice Index, 1930-1971, Veronica Obryk, nee Dziedzic died on 24 Feb 1959. The death notice appeared on 26 Feb 1959 in 'Dziennik Chicagoski'.
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:00 pm      Post subject:
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janedufault wrote:

Joseph's naturalization papers (declaration of intention) were signed in April 1911. Does this mean he was definitely an American citizen? I didn't think my grandmother was. If he became a citizen, did she automatically become one too? It did list Jazwiny as his birthplace.
Jane

Jane, The Declaration of Intention was considered "First Papers". The Petition for Naturalization, and then Certificate of Naturalization were the "Final Papers". Did he have those? Shellie started a thread on the subject at Polish Origins here:
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=657&highlight=declaration++intention and among others, I added how I got my grandfather's naturalization papers. It is my understanding that if Joseph got his final papers before 1920 or so (when women got the right to vote), Victoria would have also become a citizen. At that time if a woman that was an American citizen married someone that wasn't a citizen, she lost her citizenship! If he was a citizen, it should have Na for naturalized for that question in the census. If he had applied, there would be a Pa for papers (I guess), and there would be an Al for Alien if someone didn't start the process.
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janedufault
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Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Replies: 21
Location: Westport, Massachusetts, USA

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:45 pm      Post subject:
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WOW...I am so happy I found this forum! You have all provided extremely valuable information. I did not know anything about the microfilm library or naturalization process Cheri so your info is very helpful. I have come across the Zieba spelling and did not know the hook gives it a "m" sound. I think it's time I seriously start to learn some Polish. I will look into all of this after the first of the year. The next few days are pretty busy but after that I plan on devoting more time to this.

Ute...I do have quite a bit more info on Victoria Dziedzic than on her husband, Joseph Ziemba and unfortunately, none of your info matches it. Her parents were Magdalena Ksiazek and Stanislaus Dziedzic. Thank you for responding though. You never know when a small bit of info opens the door to so much more. That's what happened when the funeral director gave me my great-grandparents' names from my grandfather's obituary. That info was worth its weight in gold!

Best wishes to you from Westport, Massachusetts for a happy, healthy, and "rewarding research" 2015!!!!!
Jane Smile
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