PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Indexation of Translations
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author
Message
Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1481
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:33 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Magroski49 wrote:

Additional columns: rather than using the vel column I would vote for inserting all additional information in the Notes column.


Ok. I added this guideline to both descriptions: http://polishorigins.com/document/births_and_deaths and http://polishorigins.com/document/marriages

Magroski49 wrote:
Two scans for one record: do you mean records continued in another page?


Yes, an example: the first part of the record http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/pietron_szczepan_marriage_1821_38__copy_528.jpg and its continuation http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/pietron_szczepan_marriage_pt_2_1821_38__copy_136.jpg .

Magroski49 wrote:
I have more transcribed records in our brazilian group, but I would have to check what has already been made available in Geneteka and other websites.

Gilberto


This is great Smile.
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
JS2985
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Replies: 123

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:04 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Zenon wrote:
Gilberto,
Second issue, somehow you got access and indexed records that are younger than 100 years old (from 1915 forwards). In Poland with have privacy law according to which records younger than 100 years old can be available only to family members. By publishing information about people and events related to them which happened in 1915 and forwards we would violate law. We don't want to do this. I am very sorry because you did great amount of work but we cannot show on-line the youngest record you sent.


Zenon,
Some of the marriage and death records I've had translated and indexed are also less than 100 years old. They all came from the FamilySearch website and are from Lublin. Here is what the Family Search website says about the privacy rules:

Whenever possible, FamilySearch makes images available for all users. However, ultimate rights to view images on our website are granted by the record custodians. Data Privacy rules prohibit viewing the following records:
• Czestochowa - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 100 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
• Radom - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 75 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
• Lublin - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 75 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
• Tarnow - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 75 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
Joann
View user's profile
Send private message
Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1481
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:17 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Joann,

Could you give us direct link to page with this information? I think we will have to consult this with someone who knows Polish privacy law.
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
JS2985
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Replies: 123

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:51 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Zenon wrote:
Joann,

Could you give us direct link to page with this information? I think we will have to consult this with someone who knows Polish privacy law.


Zenon,
Here is the link:
https://training.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Poland,_Roman_Catholic_Church_Books_(FamilySearch_Historical_Records)/Known_Issues
Joann

Zenon,
I just tried the link and it's not working so I've copied the page to a word document that I've attached as a pdf file.
Joann



Poland Roman Catholic Church Books.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Poland Roman Catholic Church Books.pdf
 Filesize:  285.27 KB
 Downloaded:  3647 Time(s)

View user's profile
Send private message
Elzbieta Porteneuve
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, France

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:21 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Zenon,
Gilberto,
Joann,

I looked up French law - since 2008 we have 75 years for civil records, and 0 for death records - with few exceptions for death records (unless ... medical secrets ... blablah).
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recherche_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9alogique_en_France
Section starting with "Loi no 2008-696 du 15 juillet 2008"

On official legal website (if you are a lawyer):
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=53EA97268825CF48166ACBF67A244395.tpdjo02v_2?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000019198529&dateTexte=

Today's wars are about public data, so it's a permanent fight for secrecy (dirty) vs. ordinary people like us.

Best,
Elzbieta
View user's profile
Send private message
rsowa
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 173
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USA

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:54 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

In the US, every state and the Federal Government has different rules about when some records can be released. Some of those rules limit access to next of kin for 50, 75 or even (for Louisiana) 100 years. When requesting copies of those records, the jurisdictions will know what they can, or cannot release. On more than one occasion, I have gotten letters back saying that a particular record I was looking for was too recent to be released.

Something to keep in mind, as the PO database grows, is that (I think) all the records that are being translated have already been made available online. In other words, the decision about public access has already been made by some other authority...usually whoever has custody of the records. For example, if the record images are posted online, and available for browsing, then I think we can assume they are safe to include in the PO database. Similarly, if an index of the records is available, and anyone can request a microfilm or copy of the image, then it also ought to be legal to include in the PO database.

my 2 cents.
Richard
View user's profile
Send private message
Agnieszka Pawlus
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 10 Mar 2013
Replies: 740
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:25 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Valerie,

25 newly added birth records from Kolbuszowa are available here: http://bit.ly/po_indexation

Thank you!
Aga
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
Cmstanley
PolishOrigins Patron


Joined: 03 Apr 2014
Replies: 67

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:12 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

This is an exciting project that will be so helpful!

I would like to halo with translations but will need to see if the open source spreadsheet program will work on my computer which is a Mac. Does anyone know? If not, I will give it a try and see.

As a brand new member (first translation recently done by Ryszard- thank you again!) I am so grateful for the work being done. I hesitate in bringing up a suggestion because I don't want to overstep my place, being new here. I will mention it but please take it in the spirit in which it's intended. My comment is on the format of this forum...I wondered if it was possible for comments to be nested, so that when translator posts a finished translation it shows up beneath the corresponding scan. It seems this would make it much easier for the member to see when their request has been answered, and also make the indexing easier going forward.

Again, please understand that this isn't meant as a complaint or as a suggestion to make work harder for those of you who are already doing so much. I fully understand that there may be reasons that it would be too difficult to change the platform and if this is the case, don't feel that you have to give me a lengthy explanation.

Again, thanks to all for the great work you are doing.

Christine Stanley
View user's profile
Send private message
Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1481
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:27 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Christine,


Although I had no opportunity to test it, I think that all of the templates as well as Google Drive online template will work on Mac.

All suggestions are welcomed Exclamation We have been working on a new version of our site and we will see if it is possible to implement a new version of Forum. However, my experience with different kind of forums (as user and operator) is that general structure of them is as we have it here. They are organized in threads (topics) and posts in given topics are presented chronologically. The latest are at the end of list of posts. There are different communication tools, for example p2 by WordPress, in which you have broader range of options when posting comments in a given post/topic but I think for our purposes traditional form of forum is tested and understandable for most people.

I think that good solution in this kind of forum we use is to quote post or part of it to which you respond. Please see my post below this one.

One of the objectives while creating assumptions to the Indexation of Translations project was to enable matching scans of original records with their translations. Now, when translation is indexed in one row of index you have link to both: original scan and its translations. You just clink on link in the 'Link to the scan' column and 'Link to the post with translation' and immediately you have in front of you the two most important pieces of information.

Thank you Christine for your comment and if only you have more please let us know. We do not guarantee that we implement all of them but for sure we will take them into account Smile.
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1481
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:41 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

JS2985 wrote:
Zenon wrote:
Gilberto,
Second issue, somehow you got access and indexed records that are younger than 100 years old (from 1915 forwards). In Poland with have privacy law according to which records younger than 100 years old can be available only to family members. By publishing information about people and events related to them which happened in 1915 and forwards we would violate law. We don't want to do this. I am very sorry because you did great amount of work but we cannot show on-line the youngest record you sent.


Zenon,
Some of the marriage and death records I've had translated and indexed are also less than 100 years old. They all came from the FamilySearch website and are from Lublin. Here is what the Family Search website says about the privacy rules:

Whenever possible, FamilySearch makes images available for all users. However, ultimate rights to view images on our website are granted by the record custodians. Data Privacy rules prohibit viewing the following records:
• Czestochowa - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 100 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
• Radom - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 75 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
• Lublin - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 75 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
• Tarnow - All birth images must be 100 years or older; all marriage images must be 75 years or older, and all death images must be 30 years or older.
Joann


Dear All,

We have consulted with three different sources: our friend who do the indexation work in Geneteka and Pomeranian Genealogical Association, manager of USC (Civil Registers Office) in one of the biggest cities in Poland and one of the branches of Polish State Archives. They all said that to births and marriages there is the rule of 100 years. As for deaths there were different interpretations: from no restrictions to 100 years.

There is no mention about this issue directly in the Act of Protection of Privacy issued by Polish parliament.

So as long as there no any other valid proof that we are allowed to publish records younger than 100 years old we will follow this rule in our project.
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
Zenon
PolishOrigins Team Leader


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1481
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:43 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

After only one and a half weeks from the start the indexation project I want to share a few thoughts with you.

Your engagement is a great, positive surprise for us. You suggested that we should also give space for indexing not only translations from the Forum but also records collected (and often indexed in your own way) during your own families research or genealogy/interest groups you are associated with.

I really want we go for it! But this means that most probably soon we will have many more indexed records than expected. More records indexed means necessity of using more scalable and reliable tools to present results. To prepare (or find) such tools and coordinate the whole process meansmore project management work, which includes working out a good solution by team of people with necessary knowledge

I am ready for that. I am sure we can find a good database specialist to join our project team (in fact we have in our team Michal who is web developer and thanks to which the whole website works in its current form, kudos to Michal!).

As many of you know from practice each project has three main constraints: cost, scope and time. Cost of creating or even buying decent database tool is not a big issue in today’s world. Development of information technology reduced cost of such tools significantly. Scope of our project is unknown and the moment but I think (I hope!) we should prepare for much bigger numbers of indexes than counted in hundreds.

The biggest problem is time for managing and developing the project. We started tours’ season early this month. Our guides (including yours truly) are on the road most of the time. For example, I am leaving tomorrow and will be on the road until at least May 20th (with two very short breaks). The coming months are similar. This means almost no time at all for any other kind of other engagements during the season which ends at the end of October.

This is what I propose at this stage. We should continue working on the Indexation project in the form we started it. All who are willing to index either their translations or records from any other sources please do this following the instruction and forms prepared: http://polishorigins.com/document/indexation . All of your files (or entries from Google Drive form) will be moved to the final database: http://bit.ly/po_indexation . We will test what are the limits of current solution - Google Drive spreadsheet. If there is too many records we can create temporary solution by, for example, creating more spreadsheets to present results divided according to a logical rule (e.g. alphabetically for the first letter of parishes). But you can be assured no single entry sent by you will be wasted. Aga, who is now the project coordinator, will be successively moving your indexes into the final database. If we discover problem with size of current database document we will create more of them and all indexes sent by you will be saved.


When only we have some time we will be working on a target, scalable solution. All kind of input, your experience, is welcomed (thank you Jim Paprocki for sharing his experience from working on one of the Rochester Churches Indexing Project).

I hope that by, as Valerie wrote, taking baby steps in some time in the future we will create something meaningful for many.



Other remarks and comments:

* We should think about implementing process of verification of entered indexes to keep good quality data. This is not a problem with scans and translations available online for everyone but in case of private sources available only for person who does indexing we should find a solution.

* Comment to people who work on the online Google Drive spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anvb6syA7Zs9dFZOVDhkYlRENDZDaEUtWUxCZFBXTmc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 please don’t remove entries of others and do not change sharing settings. The document is available for everyone for editing. Yes, this is also experiment based on trust that entries of others will not be deleted. Of course, we have access to history of the document and we can always restore the entries of anyone. In case of accidental deletion you can always use ‘undo’ command.

If we will learn that this is not the best solution we will think about modifying it, for example restrict access for invited persons only. But so far it works well.



Thank you all for so early engaged in the indexation process and sent your comments Exclamation
View user's profile
Send private message
Send e-mail
Cmstanley
PolishOrigins Patron


Joined: 03 Apr 2014
Replies: 67

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:00 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Zenon wrote:
Christine,


Although I had no opportunity to test it, I think that all of the templates as well as Google Drive online template will work on Mac.

All suggestions are welcomed Exclamation We have been working on a new version of our site and we will see if it is possible to implement a new version of Forum. However, my experience with different kind of forums (as user and operator) is that general structure of them is as we have it here. They are organized in threads (topics) and posts in given topics are presented chronologically. The latest are at the end of list of posts. There are different communication tools, for example p2 by WordPress, in which you have broader range of options when posting comments in a given post/topic but I think for our purposes traditional form of forum is tested and understandable for most people.

I think that good solution in this kind of forum we use is to quote post or part of it to which you respond. Please see my post below this one.

One of the objectives while creating assumptions to the Indexation of Translations project was to enable matching scans of original records with their translations. Now, when translation is indexed in one row of index you have link to both: original scan and its translations. You just clink on link in the 'Link to the scan' column and 'Link to the post with translation' and immediately you have in front of you the two most important pieces of information.

Thank you Christine for your comment and if only you have more please let us know. We do not guarantee that we implement all of them but for sure we will take them into account Smile.


Thank you for the response. You are right, the index will make it much easier to reference the documents.

Christine
View user's profile
Send private message
Agnieszka Pawlus
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 10 Mar 2013
Replies: 740
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:04 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Dear Forum Members!

It has been already 1 month since our indexation project started.
It is time for short recapitulation:

So far we have 1252 birth records, 1035 marriage records and 363 death records indexed!

There are records not only from our Forum but also from some microfilms available on FamilySearch.

We would like to thank all users who angaged in our project: Don, rsowa, Megan, Valerie, Helli.
Two forum members deserve special thanks for their regular commitment: Gilberto for indexing the microfilms and Joann, who to index the older translation from our forum (so far she indexed 14 pages of Russian records translations ans she keeps going!).

Thank you for your passion and dedication!

We also thank for all remarks and observations, we will do our best to improve the index and the whole growing project.

We look forward to all of you, who would like to take part in this project.

Greetings from Kraków!
Aga


Main page of the indexation project: http://polishorigins.com/document/indexation
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
Agnieszka Pawlus
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 10 Mar 2013
Replies: 740
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:45 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Last minute news: today we have added 90 new records to the index (46 birth, 12 marriage and 32 death) - thanks to Joann, who is constantly indexing Russian records translations section from our forum (and she has done 31 pages so far)!

You can search the index here: http://bit.ly/po_indexation

(use the combination of CTRL + F and enter the surname or place name that you are interested in)
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
Agnieszka Pawlus
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 10 Mar 2013
Replies: 740
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:33 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Dear Forum Members!

Thank you again for your commitment to our indexation project!
As you probably noticed, this week we had to modify the main index by creating multiple sheets. The former database extended the technical capabilities of one document.
Currently we have 23 different sheets for parishes sorted in alphabetical order: http://bit.ly/po_indexation

Last week thanks to commitment of Gilberto and Leonore we added the indexes of several microfilms from FamilySearch archives.

Here are some examples of parishes that we added recently:
Dobrzejewice
Drobin
Kłodawa
Kluczewo
Kruszyn
Lekno
Lipno
Pokrzydowo
Raciążek
Tolkmicko
Tralewo
Trankwice
Warka
and more...

I hope that this index will help you to make some interesting discoveries.

If anyone would like to help us with indexing, you can contact us: [email protected] (or here on PolishOrigins' Forum)

Have a good weekend!
Aga
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Research in Poland All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2021 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM