Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - Help Deciphering Place Names

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Squirrel6s

Joined: 22 Apr 2014
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Location: East SF Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:19 pm Post subject: Help Deciphering Place Names

Hello! I am new to genealogy and am doing research to find more information about my ancestors... in Poland, obviously. Smile

I have found my great grandfather's name (Piotr Malinowski) on a Philadelphia Passenger List of the SS Friesland which sailed from Liverpool in 13 May 1908 and arriving 25 May.

According to whoever transcribed for Ancestry.com, the place of birth is Turso Wilera, Russia. I am not sure if that is in present-day Poland and I am having trouble finding out more information. On the attached image, you can see the nearest relative he left behind... grandfather Bartlomiej Walicki. However, there seems to be something between "Turso Wilera" and "Russia" underneath the line with his grandfather's name. Any ideas about what that says?

Thank you!!! --Susanne.

Philadelphia Passenger P Malinowski-zoom.jpg

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Magroski49
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject:

Susanne,

I think it is a misspelling for Turza Wielka, then in Plock province (the word you could not read).
At the present time, it is part of gmina Lipowiec Koscielny, in mlawskie powiat.
On line records here: http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Lipowiec/
What is his birth year?

On a second and closer look I think it is Turza Wilcza, then in Plock and now in kujawsko-pomorskie province, powiat lipnowski.

Gilberto.

Squirrel6s

Joined: 22 Apr 2014
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Location: East SF Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject:

Gilbert,

Thank you! That seems quite reasonable to me. In reading on these forums I was reminded of the cyrillic-latin alphabet may be doubling the language barrier! Do you mind me asking why you've changed your interpretation on second look? Is it because of location? I am just trying to learn how genealogists think... not to second-guess you. Smile

There seems to be some discrepancy with his birth year... my family source says 1892. However, other records indicate anywhere between 1890 and 1894. Smile

His father is Wladicow or Walter or even Wladyslaw/Iladyslaw. I believe Bartlomiej was his maternal grandfather.

Are the records you've linked to above for a specific area? I feel very in over my head! Smile

Magroski49
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:43 am Post subject:

Susanne,

When I saw it was Plock, I looked for a Turza nearest to Plock as possible. Actually, there are three Turza Wielka, and two of them were located in Plock province. That written on the manifest seems closer to Wilcza than Wielka, that's why I changed my opinion.

Wilcza is in gmina Tluchowo. Geneteka has indexes covering up to 1847. However, there is only one Walicki (marriage in 1845) and only one Malinowski (death in 1837) there.
http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=3058&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=malinowski&search_lastname2=&rpp2=20&rpp1=0&bdm=S&w=02kp&op=gt&lang=pol

The previous link I have sent refers to place around Mlawa.

Gilberto

Squirrel6s

Joined: 22 Apr 2014
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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:23 pm Post subject:

Gilberto,

Thanks again. Smile

One more question...

Since there are very few people recorded in Wilcza-gmina Tluchowo, I thought I should take a closer look at the city which was your first guess. Wielka. Is there a way to search the records you initially replied with for names or am I going to need to read through all the pages? That is a daunting task since I don't know any Polish! Smile

http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Lipowiec/

I did glance through some of those records... what is listed in the left hand margin of each page besides the entry number? Is that the name of an event?

Cheers!!

Susanne.

Squirrel6s

Joined: 22 Apr 2014
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:53 am Post subject:

And... I just did more investigating... they must be in Russian! Smile

Magroski49
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:50 am Post subject:

Susanne,

It is possible that the Malinowski and Walick moved to Wilcza after 1847. You could request a search for his birth record, but that will be a bit expensier (not a big deal!) since you don't know the exact date nor his parents' names. One hour of search costs 25 zlotys (payed in advance, with no return if record is not found) and a scanned copy (A4 size) costs 4 zlotys.
If doing so, please inform the Archive the place is Turza Wilcza, in gmina Tluchowo.

The State Archive address is:
Archiwum Państwowe w Toruniu Oddział we Włocławku
87-800 Włocławek, ul. Ks. Skorupki 4
tel: (54) 232-28-57
fax: 232-28-57
email: [email protected]

As to Wielka:
Usually records are displayed in the following order: births, and then the index; marriages > index; and deaths > index. Sometimes you will find births, marriages, deaths and then births index, marriages index and death index.

Records from June 1868 on will be in russian. Many of these records present the names both in russian and then /in polish/. The index is usually in russian (rarely in polish).

1890 birth index is here:
http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Lipowiec/1890/_M_3516.jpg
in order to locate the birth indexes for 1891 to 1894, have in mind that about 60% of the records listed are births, 10% are marriages and 30% are deaths.

To identify how Malinowsk and Walicki will look like in russian please read:
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=2250

Gilberto

Squirrel6s

Joined: 22 Apr 2014
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject:

Hi Gilberto. I managed to get in touch with one of Peter's grandchildren via ancestry.com and have confirmed his birth date according to his Social Security application and death certificate. I do also know his parents' names but like I mentioned earlier in this thread, the spelling of his father's name is up for grabs. He went by Walter once he arrived in the States, but death certificate says Iladyslaw, naturalization was Wladicow, other records say Wladyslaw. I have found several internet pages on how to write to the national archives, including the tutorial here on polishorigins. Should I list alternate spellings in the letter? Do you think that, with an exact birth date and parents' names, it would be worth writing to the archives? Best to hand write or cut and paste on the computer?

Also, is this address familiar to you? Is it the National Archive address? Sort of like we have states in USA or provinces in Canada with separate archives and governments?
Naczelna Dyrekcja Archiwów Państwowych
ul. Długa 6, skr. poczt. 1005
00-950 Warszawa
POLAND

Can you tell what the difference is between that one and the address you gave me? I am inclined to write to the address you provided.

Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Joined: 09 Nov 2012
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Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject:

Squirrel6s wrote:

the spelling of his father's name is up for grabs. He went by Walter once he arrived in the States, but death certificate says Iladyslaw, naturalization was Wladicow, other records say Wladyslaw

Susanne,

If I may jump in your conversation.

Neither Iladyslaw, nor Wladicow are Polish given names, those are just random writings in the US.

Władysław is Polish given name, but it's quite difficult case for English speakers.
Both W spells V, like in Vermont, both ł - l with inclined dash - spells W, like in wood.
I have collegues in France, when they asked for naturalisation, they were advised to replace their given name (Władysław and Włodzimierz respectively) by Walter.
Walter is straighforward in many languages.

It could be a similar situation.

I am quite sure that in Polish archives his name is Władysław.

Concerning the postal address: the one you have is Naczelna Dyrekcja - Central Management, of Polish Archives. They probably manage organisation of all regional archives, coordinate work, set policy, but I doubt they deal with records. The address provided by Gilberto is the one of interest to you.

Best,
Elzbieta

Magroski49
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject:

Susanne,

Just to add a note to Elzbieta's info: You can write to the AP Wloclawek's email address. No problem if it is in English, but the answer will be in Polish, in about one month. If the search is sucessful, you can ask them to send the scanned image to your email address, if you prefer.

Gilberto

Squirrel6s

Joined: 22 Apr 2014
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject:

Elzbieta, I did try searching on genetka for those versions of his name and when none presented, I decided it must not really be a Polish spelling. I will go with the Wladyslaw version when I write to the archives. Thank you for jumping into the conversation!! I welcome any and all advice I can get. Smile

This is SO FUN!

Gilberto, email sounds like a good plan. Smile

Thanks again!

Susanne.

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