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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm      Post subject:
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Hi again,

Have you heard of The name Stanislaw Dziuba in your family talk? Possibly as a brother of Jan?

Reason I ask is that I found military draft records, census, Baltimore passenger list And death record for Stanislaw Dziuba. His passenger list says he was headed to a friend in Auburn NY. His other records also have him residing in Auburn. He arrived in 1912 and his passenger list says he was born in Ryczow, Malopolskie, Poland. He died in Auburn in 1927, but per find a grave notations, he was later reinterred at another cement the county. He was born 1889.

I know this is not a sure thing, but you might want to put it in your “shoebox” as a possible clue.

Cynthia


Last edited by mcdonald0517 on Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Erin Dziuba



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:29 pm      Post subject:
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Hi I did find a marriage doc with a photo for Jan but not much info.


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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:40 pm      Post subject:
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Erin,

The marriage doc you found On Ancestry is only an index with a reference to the county license #. Now, you need to contact the county via the link I provided you and request his full marriage license application which contains far more information.

Cynthia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:26 pm      Post subject:
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Erin Dziuba wrote:
Hi I did find a marriage doc with a photo for Jan but not much info.


Hi Erin,

The RC parish which served the Polish community in Auburn was St. Hyacinth (61 Pulaski St.). The church is still in use, although it is now part of new parish formed by the merger of several parishes. The new parish is Saints Mary & Martha. I would suggest bypassing the county marriage records and contacting the parish directly, which should save you considerable time and effort. Here is a link to their website with all sorts of information (including email address) https://www.marymarthaauburn.org/

If you contact the parish request a photo copy of the entry in the marriage register not a marriage certificate (which will not include the info you will need). That should provide you with info which will help direct your further research.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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Erin Dziuba



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:28 pm      Post subject:
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Thank You. I contacted the town but haven't heard back from them. I will reach out to the parish directly as you suggested.


dnowicki wrote:
Erin Dziuba wrote:
Hi I did find a marriage doc with a photo for Jan but not much info.


Hi Erin,

The RC parish which served the Polish community in Auburn was St. Hyacinth (61 Pulaski St.). The church is still in use, although it is now part of new parish formed by the merger of several parishes. The new parish is Saints Mary & Martha. I would suggest bypassing the county marriage records and contacting the parish directly, which should save you considerable time and effort. Here is a link to their website with all sorts of information (including email address) https://www.marymarthaauburn.org/

If you contact the parish request a photo copy of the entry in the marriage register not a marriage certificate (which will not include the info you will need). That should provide you with info which will help direct your further research.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:08 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Dave,

I was hoping you would see this thread and join in! I suspected St. Hyacinths was the Polish Catholic Church in the area but wasn’t sure. Good advice to go directly to the church - county is probably back-logged due to COVID. Hadn’t thought of that. Good to hear from you and hope you are well.

Best,
Cynthia
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Erin Dziuba



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Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:37 pm      Post subject:
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I reached out to both the county and the church. I will post an update when I have one. I really do appreciate all the help given here. Some name I am given are spelt differently on different forms which require extra digging. For instance Mary Gron was given to me sometimes spelt Marya on census and her grave has Marja. I feel that will be the case when I finally confirm Jan's parents.


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:46 pm      Post subject:
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Erin Dziuba wrote:
I reached out to both the county and the church. I will post an update when I have one. I really do appreciate all the help given here. Some name I am given are spelt differently on different forms which require extra digging. For instance Mary Gron was given to me sometimes spelt Marya on census and her grave has Marja. I feel that will be the case when I finally confirm Jan's parents.


Hi Erin,

The differences in orthography/spelling in the name Mary—Marya and Marja—originate in history and in regional linguistic differences of the Polish language. Both Marya and Marja were commonly found during the 19th and early 20th Centuries. Keep in mind that Poland had been partitioned and was ruled by Germany, Russia, and Austria until after WWI. This situation increased the regional differences which had existed prior to the Partitions. Regional dialects were not unique to Poland. The same phenomenon was found in the USA as well as other countries. Attached are a map of the major Polish dialects and one of English accents/dialects in the USA. During the 20th Century regional differences were lessened by mass media (radio & TV). In Poland the main reform of orthography took place in 1936. Just to add another variation to the name Mary... after 1936 the standard spelling became Maria. No matter how the name is spelled it is the same person. You simply need to choose a spelling and stick with it in the story of your family. My own personal choice has been to stick with the pre-1936 orthography in my writing for individuals who were born, lived and died in Poland. How to deal with given names of relatives who immigrated to the USA is another question. My rational is that is how the names of my ancestors would have been written during their lifetime, but, in my opinion, there is no right or wrong choice. Just to add another layer of variation records were kept in Polish, Latin, Russian and German during the years of the Partitions. No matter the language in which records were kept in real life individuals were known by the vernacular (Polish) version of their given names. It bugs me when people refer to their ancestors from the German or the Austrian Partitions by the Latin version of their given name as though they were long dead ancient Romans. I see no reason to use the Latin version since the only time the individual was addressed by that version was in church during the celebration of a Sacrament and I doubt the person would have known that the priest was addressing them by the Latin version of their name. This from someone who spent years studying and teaching Latin and has a fondness for the lingo. However, I never wanted to pretend that I was an ancient Roman. Such are my thoughts regarding names.

Anyway, I hope this explanation may help you to understand and make sense of the variations in names.

Dave



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Erin Dziuba



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Post Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:24 pm      Post subject:
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Hi,

So the name I was given for Jan's parents look correct. It must not be the right ship. I will continue looking at the Ellis Island site to see if I can find a better fitting Jan Dziuba. I was told he landed on Ellis Island. I am going to delete Kataryna as I do not believe that she belongs on the tree. The Church provided the text file on family search not the original.

It would have to be before 1913 because of the wedding.



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Erin Dziuba



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Post Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:49 pm      Post subject:
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New update: My 'First Cousin once removed' basically my grandfather's sister kid called to provide an update on a relative and we got to talking. She had a picture of my Great Grand father Jan (I never saw one before). I asked if they might have came down from Canada and she said it was possible but wasn't positive. I will need to expand my search. They did settle in western NY area and that is close to Canada.

She also mentioned that she was once told one of them (either Jan or Marja) was Jewish. First time I heard that. I was always told both were Catholic. With this information I will change my search tactics. I have nothing to verify her information from but it could be why I was hitting dead ends earlier.



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:22 am      Post subject:
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Erin Dziuba wrote:
Hi,

So the name I was given for Jan's parents look correct. It must not be the right ship. I will continue looking at the Ellis Island site to see if I can find a better fitting Jan Dziuba. I was told he landed on Ellis Island. I am going to delete Kataryna as I do not believe that she belongs on the tree. The Church provided the text file on family search not the original.

It would have to be before 1913 because of the wedding.


Hi Erin,

It is more than a little strange that the church would have sent you a print out of the civil license data from the county rather than the ecclesiastical record, which is a Sacramental record. The two had distinct purposes, one civil and the other religious. Who from the parish responded to your request? The Family Search catalog lists records from St. Hyacinth’s until 1910. Here is the link: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/451272?availability=Family%20History%20Library If you look at the notes you will see that the text of the records is in Latin, which was standard until the late 1960s. Also, you will note that the records were filmed at Holy Family rectory (less than one mile from St. Hyacinth’s). The reason they were filmed there is not clear. The LDS volunteers who did the microfilming usually did it at a central location—often at the chancery office of the Diocese. It is also worthy of note that the records were filmed in 1986. Usually the diocese set a year limit for privacy purposes. In Chicago the limit was records 75 years old or older. The privacy limit could explain why 1910 was the end year. The bottom line is that Latin Sacramental records, which are what you need, exist for St. Hyacinth’s. Here are links to St. Stanislaus in Buffalo, NY
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS4N-643S-W?i=1545&cat=23415 and to St. Adalbert’s in Buffalo https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS4L-19Q6-J?cat=23389 to give you an idea of what Sacramental records look like. These are in two styles of printed registers but each style does include the place of origin for both the bride and the groom. In the St. Stanislaus register the data is found in the groom’s and the bride’s columns titled “Patria” (Fatherland). In the other register the data is found after the words “ex loco” (from the place). Anyway, the point is that Sacramental Registers often can point you to the correct location to research in Europe.

I would recommend contacting either the parish or the Archives of the Diocese of Rochester in another attempt to obtain the info you need. Perhaps it would be better to call rather than to email since it is a bit harder for someone to blow you off on the phone than it is by email. Here are links to the parish and to the Archives contact info. Contact Info St. Hyacinth https://www.marymarthaauburn.org/contact/ and Diocese of Rochester archives: https://www.dor.org/about/office-ministry-directory/archives/ The Archives could likely tell you where the records are housed, if they are not in the Archives.

The info is too important to further research to give up yet. Another possible location for the info would be citizenship records (If they were naturalized.) The so called “First Papers” aka the Declaration of Intention usually gives the specific place of origin.

Wishing you the best of luck in your quest,

Dave
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Erin Dziuba



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Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:23 pm      Post subject:
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Hi,

The 'fun' continues. A second church email again failed to provide the Sacramental record but had the details. Interestingly enough the person who sent it to me grandparents were witnesses to my great grandparents wedding. I think we may be related to each other and sent a follow up email to connect. I am still waiting on first papers.

Here are the details:


'Here is the information regarding the marriage of John Dziuba to Mary C. Gron Married November 4, 1913 at St. Hyacinth Church, Auburn, NY by Stanislaus J. Szupa

Joannes Dziuba Parents Franciscus Dziuba and Maria Munica. Baptized 17 NOV 1886 from Rycgow Galicya

Mariana Graj Parents Joanuro Graj and Maria Barczyk
Baptized 9 July 1888 from Dobrociesz Galicya

Witnesses were my grandparents:
Stanislaus Dziuba and Catherina Bodurka who were later married themselves on November 26, 1913'

-----
They were both baptised in Galicya. Is the a site that might have more details on that area? I believe it is called Kingdom of Galicia.
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:23 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Erin,

Congratulations on get some clues! I want to make a suggestion regarding the name of Jan’s birth place provided by the church - they say he was baptized in 1886 in Rycgow, Galicia. There is no such place, however, there is a Ryczów in what was then considered Galicia or Galycia. Also, if you refer back to a response I provided in this thread on March 19, I found a Stanislaw Dziuba immigrating to Auburn NY. he was born in 1889 in Ryczów. Seems very likely Stanislaw was related to Jan.

Cynthia
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:39 pm      Post subject:
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Hello again,

I haven’t been able to find any parish records online, but here is the website for the Gmina (district) of which Ryczów is a part. They have an English version of the website you can select. They have history, culture, and some photos. They also have contact information for the parish.

http://www.spytkowice.net.pl/multimedia/galeria/

Hopefully others from the community will also provide you with resources.

Best,
Cynthia
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Erin Dziuba



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Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:56 pm      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Hi Erin,

Congratulations on get some clues! I want to make a suggestion regarding the name of Jan’s birth place provided by the church - they say he was baptized in 1886 in Rycgow, Galicia. There is no such place, however, there is a Ryczów in what was then considered Galicia or Galycia. Also, if you refer back to a response I provided in this thread on March 19, I found a Stanislaw Dziuba immigrating to Auburn NY. he was born in 1889 in Ryczów. Seems very likely Stanislaw was related to Jan.

Cynthia


Thank you Cynthia I wasn't sure then if John (Jan) was related to Stanislaw still not quite sure how but I think they are now. I hope to get more information from the granddaughter but it is certainly a clue! Thank you of the tip I will concentrate on Ryczów.
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