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kimbo8867



Joined: 02 Sep 2014
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Location: Cornwall, NY USA

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:32 pm      Post subject: is LAZICKI a jewish or catholic surname?
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Hello, my great grandfather Frank Lazicki was a tailor in an area of Poland called Dziergowo (or possibly Dzierzgowo). He came to the states in 1900 stayed for 20 years and went back to Poland with three of his 5 boys. He then sent the boys back 2 years later, and my grandfather, who was young at the time, was told his father had died. However, many years later, it is believed that was not the case. My grandfather was brought up in Passaic, NJ as a catholic. His mother was Francis Sopuch Lazicki. There were some rumors that her husband Frank may have been Jewish. So I guess I am asking is how can one know? Were tailors typically jobs held by jewish persons? I think he may have been somewhat financially secure. My grandfather told me that his father got killed in a stage coach robbery. But years later a cousin of his heard a relative on the phone saying that Frank simply did not want to return to the states. Any input appreciated. Thank you
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:18 pm      Post subject:
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Kim,

Hope this article can clarify: http://www.polishroots.org/Research/SurnameSearch/Surnamesendings/tabid/118/Default.aspx

P. S. I have just found Frank's arrival and his birthplace as well. I have to leave now, but later I will detail my findings.

Gilberto
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:17 pm      Post subject:
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Kim,

I have found an entry for Franz, 32, and Teodor, 22, arriving at Ellis Island on October 6, 1899, sailing from Hamburg on ship Italia, departured on October 11. I read their profession as "baker".

Their surname was misspelled as Lazicky (no Y after K in polish grammar) and their last place of residence was misspelled, too, as Chorza. Actually, it is now Tańsk-Chorąże
woj. mazowieckie
pow. mławski
gmina Dzierzgowo
located just 4 miles Northwest from Dzierzgowo.

Since Dzierzgowo records are online through Poczekalnia project (http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/) I was able to find Franciszek's birth record in 1865 (not 1867, as stated on the ship manifest). You can view and download it here (entry #62); http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/1865/_M_2932.jpg

That village is plenty of Lazycki.
Parents' names were Jan Lazycki and Agnieszka Sparzak.He was born on April 1st in Dzierzgowek, a village of 157 souls, between Dzierzgowo and Tansk-Choraze.

As to the Sopuch, I think this is their marriage:
1881 - #85 - Jakub Sopuch and Franciszka Ciborowska, in Goworowo .
Birth dates are indexed from 1889 on, so I could not find a birth for Frances (Franciszka).
However, I have found the following children:
1891 398 Helena
1894 403 Franciszek
1897 413 Władysław
1899 252 Zofia
1902 403 Jan
1906 160 Stanisława
You can view their records (and more Sopuch families in Goworowo) here:
http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=243&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=sopuch&search_lastname2=&exac=1&rpp1=0&bdm=A&w=07mz&op=gt&lang=pol

Finally, Franciszka birth record must be in Archiwum Diecezjalna in Plock. Though their records are not online, you can order thse two LDS films to view it:
Akta urodzeń 1881-1888 1809646
Akta urodzeń 1888-1889 1809647 Items 1 - 2

Gilberto
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:12 am      Post subject:
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Kim, Gilberto

Let me provide you with typed birth record of Franciszek Łazicki.
He was baptised, Roman Catholic.

Actually, Łazicki is Polish name, the word "łazić" means " to traipse", "to walk"; a close one "włóczyć się" means to roam.

The spelling of "Ł" is like "W" in wood.

Best,
Elzbieta
==

http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/1865/_M_2932.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: 2 April 1865, 3 pm, in Dzierzgowo
FATHER: Jan Łazicki, laborer residing in Dzierzgówek, 33 years old
MOTHER: Agnieszka born Sparzak, 30 years old, his wife
KTO: Franciszek Łazicki born 1 April 1865, 10 am, in Dzierzgówek
WITNESSES: Antoni Komora, shepherd, from Dzierzgówek, 47 years old, and Szymon Łączyński, farmer owner from Szumsk, 47 years old
GODPARENTS: Antoni Komora and Maryanna, his spouse

Nr 62 Dzierzgówko
Dzialo sie w wsi Dzierzgowie dnia drugiego kwietnia tysiac osiemset szescdziesiatego piatego roku o godzinie trzeciej po poludniu. Stawil sie Jan Łazicki, wyrobnik w Dzierzgówku zamieszkaly, lat trzydziesci trzy majacy, w obecnosci Antoniego Komory, owczarza, z Dzierzgówka, lat czterdziesci siedem, i Szymona Łączyńskiego, gospodarza z Szumska, lat czterdziesci siedem majacych, i okazal nam dziecie plci meskiej, oswiadczajac iz takowe jest urodzone w Dzierzgówku, na dniu pierwszym kwietnia roku biezacego, o godzinie dziesiatej rano, z jego malzonki Agnieszki z Sparzakow, lat trzydziesci majacej. Dziecieciu temu na chrzie swietym w dniu dzisiejszym, przez ksiedza Wiktora Ildefonsa Trejdosiewicza odbytym, nadane zostalo imie Franciszek, a rodzicami jego chrzestnymi byli Antoni Komora i Maryanna malzonka. Akt ten oswiadczajacym i swiadkom pisac nieumiejacym odczytany podpisalismy.
Wiktor Ildefons Trejdosiewicz, Proboszcz Dzierzgowski, Utrzymujacy Akta Stanu Cywilnego

Translated:

It did happen in the village Dzierzgowo, on the second day of April, year one thousand eight other sixty-five, at three o'clock in the afternoon. Appeared in Jan Łazicki, laborer residing in Dzierzgówek, thirty-three years old, in the presence of Antoni Komora, shepherd, from Dzierzgówek, forty-seven years old, and Szymon Łączyński, farmer owner from Szumsk, forty-seven years old, and presented us a male child, declaring he is born in Dzierzgówek, on the first day of April of the current year, at ten o'clock in the morning, with his wife Agnieszka born Sparzak, thirty years old. On the holy baptism held today by the priest Wiktor Ildefons Trejdosiewicz, the child has been given the name of Franciszek and his godparents were Antoni Komora and Maryanna, his spouse. This act was read to the declarant and witnesses not knowing how to write, we signed.
Wiktor Ildefons Trejdosiewicz, Pastor in Dzierzgowo, keeping Civil Vital Records Registry

==
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kimbo8867



Joined: 02 Sep 2014
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Location: Cornwall, NY USA

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:13 pm      Post subject: Thank you!
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I just wanted to say Thank you! Never in a thousand years did I ever expect to get any information on the polish part of my tree. I have been researching my tree for 25 years and have had much success with all the other lines, but hit road blocks with my Polish roots.

I am digesting all of it now, and downloading the links and info. I was never certain if the ellis island records showed the "correct" Frank, so I couldn't really take it further. However, it was dumb luck that I happened to find something on a passport application link that showed my grandfather as a child and his two brothers returning home from Poland after having been there for two years. When I saw the city, I thought I would try my luck here. I am amazed.

The piece of info that I would really love to find out one day, is if he married again or had indeed died in 1922 as my grandfather thought. I will certainly be in touch, and want you both to know that you have really made a difference in my quest! Kim


Magroski49 wrote:
Kim,

Hope this article can clarify: http://www.polishroots.org/Research/SurnameSearch/Surnamesendings/tabid/118/Default.aspx

P. S. I have just found Frank's arrival and his birthplace as well. I have to leave now, but later I will detail my findings.

Gilberto
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kimbo8867



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Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:32 pm      Post subject: Arrival record for Franz Lasicky
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Hi Gilberto,

I found the ellis island record for Franz and Teodor. I could make out that they were going to Union City, NJ (not far from Paterson or Passaic NJ, where he ended up living) but I could not read the relative that sponsored him or paid his voyage, which would be in the last column. One thing that disturbs me is that it says he was married. My great grandmother, Frances Sopuch, was listed as single on her ships manifest. She was much younger than he. She came here in 1905 and listed Ludwinov or Ludwinow as her origin.

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi-bin%2Ftif2gif%2Eexe%3FT%3D%5C%5C%5C%5C192%2E168%2E100%2E11%5C%5CIMAGES%5C%5CT715-0584%5C%5CT715-05840146%2ETIF%26S%3D%2E5&pID=102412020821&name=Franziska%26nbsp%3BSobuch&doa=Jun+05%2C+1905&port=Hamburg&line=0011

the link above is Franziska Sobuch's manifest entry.

I think a few Lazickis married Sopuchs as well.

I was wondering about the name Sopuch. Was it originally Check?

Thanks again Gilberto! Kim



Magroski49 wrote:
Kim,

I have found an entry for Franz, 32, and Teodor, 22, arriving at Ellis Island on October 6, 1899, sailing from Hamburg on ship Italia, departured on October 11. I read their profession as "baker".

Their surname was misspelled as Lazicky (no Y after K in polish grammar) and their last place of residence was misspelled, too, as Chorza. Actually, it is now Tańsk-Chorąże
woj. mazowieckie
pow. mławski
gmina Dzierzgowo
located just 4 miles Northwest from Dzierzgowo.

Since Dzierzgowo records are online through Poczekalnia project (http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/) I was able to find Franciszek's birth record in 1865 (not 1867, as stated on the ship manifest). You can view and download it here (entry #62); http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/1865/_M_2932.jpg

That village is plenty of Lazycki.
Parents' names were Jan Lazycki and Agnieszka Sparzak.He was born on April 1st in Dzierzgowek, a village of 157 souls, between Dzierzgowo and Tansk-Choraze.

As to the Sopuch, I think this is their marriage:
1881 - #85 - Jakub Sopuch and Franciszka Ciborowska, in Goworowo .
Birth dates are indexed from 1889 on, so I could not find a birth for Frances (Franciszka).
However, I have found the following children:
1891 398 Helena
1894 403 Franciszek
1897 413 Władysław
1899 252 Zofia
1902 403 Jan
1906 160 Stanisława
You can view their records (and more Sopuch families in Goworowo) here:
http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=243&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=sopuch&search_lastname2=&exac=1&rpp1=0&bdm=A&w=07mz&op=gt&lang=pol

Finally, Franciszka birth record must be in Archiwum Diecezjalna in Plock. Though their records are not online, you can order thse two LDS films to view it:
Akta urodzeń 1881-1888 1809646
Akta urodzeń 1888-1889 1809647 Items 1 - 2

Gilberto
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kimbo8867



Joined: 02 Sep 2014
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:57 pm      Post subject: I think i may have found Frances Sopuch birth
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Hi Gilbert,

I hope I am not being a pain, but when I brough up the link of the Sopuch births, I on line 13 I see Francis Sopuch. Thats in 1894. Is that Frank or Frances? By the way, I met Frances a few times. She lived to be 103 give or take, depending on how accurate her birthday is. She gave 10/31/ as her month and day.




Magroski49 wrote:
Kim,

I have found an entry for Franz, 32, and Teodor, 22, arriving at Ellis Island on October 6, 1899, sailing from Hamburg on ship Italia, departured on October 11. I read their profession as "baker".

Their surname was misspelled as Lazicky (no Y after K in polish grammar) and their last place of residence was misspelled, too, as Chorza. Actually, it is now Tańsk-Chorąże
woj. mazowieckie
pow. mławski
gmina Dzierzgowo
located just 4 miles Northwest from Dzierzgowo.

Since Dzierzgowo records are online through Poczekalnia project (http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/) I was able to find Franciszek's birth record in 1865 (not 1867, as stated on the ship manifest). You can view and download it here (entry #62); http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/1865/_M_2932.jpg

That village is plenty of Lazycki.
Parents' names were Jan Lazycki and Agnieszka Sparzak.He was born on April 1st in Dzierzgowek, a village of 157 souls, between Dzierzgowo and Tansk-Choraze.

As to the Sopuch, I think this is their marriage:
1881 - #85 - Jakub Sopuch and Franciszka Ciborowska, in Goworowo .
Birth dates are indexed from 1889 on, so I could not find a birth for Frances (Franciszka).
However, I have found the following children:
1891 398 Helena
1894 403 Franciszek
1897 413 Władysław
1899 252 Zofia
1902 403 Jan
1906 160 Stanisława
You can view their records (and more Sopuch families in Goworowo) here:
http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=243&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=sopuch&search_lastname2=&exac=1&rpp1=0&bdm=A&w=07mz&op=gt&lang=pol

Finally, Franciszka birth record must be in Archiwum Diecezjalna in Plock. Though their records are not online, you can order thse two LDS films to view it:
Akta urodzeń 1881-1888 1809646
Akta urodzeń 1888-1889 1809647 Items 1 - 2

Gilberto
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:08 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Kim,
I'm attaching the relative's name that Franz and Teodor were going to. Maybe someone would be able to decipher the name. The i-l is in-law, and it might say broth, so maybe brother-in-law.
Cheri



Franz and Teodor's relative.jpg
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Franz and Teodor's relative.jpg


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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:28 am      Post subject:
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Kim and Cherie,

I cannot read his first name, but the surname looks to me a Puzibinsky. If Franz was single by then and Teodor, at 22, wasn't expected to be married, my assumption is that this person was married to a Lazycka. I have searched Geneteka marriages for Dzierzgowo but could not find any surname that looks similar.

I can't tell you if Sopuch was originally a Czech surname.

In line 13, the record says Franciszek (male). Frances would be Franciszka. The name appears in polish as Franciszek, but I don't know if in russian it was written Franciszek or Franciszka. However, if Frances declared 17 in 1905, then she was born in 1888. This year is not available online, you would have to rent the LDS film I mentioned in my previous post.

Ludwinowo is the correct name of the village. It is located 2miles away from Goworowo.

Gilberto
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:40 am      Post subject:
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Magroski49 wrote:
Kim and Cherie,

I cannot read his first name, but the surname looks to me a Puzibinsky. If Franz was single by then and Teodor, at 22, wasn't expected to be married, my assumption is that this person was married to a Lazycka. I have searched Geneteka marriages for Dzierzgowo but could not find any surname that looks similar.
...
Gilberto


Hi All,

I think the first name is Apolina.

It ends with "-insky" (why "y"?, Russian transliteration?)
It is possible to have -binsky, but "b" and "t" might be too close to say.
Is the second letter "u" or "r" followed by "iz", Priz? does not look much Polish.

I tried to search Polish existing names, Przyczynski is one of close.
Let's imagine transformation by non-Polish speaker. First you suppress both "z" of double consons (to make it possible to spell outside of Poland), then "y" by "i", it's Pricinski. Nobody but Poles spell "c", so let put "t" in replacement of "c" - Pritinski. Quite close to the handwritten jpg.
My best guess, assuming the relative person was Polish, is Apolina Przyczynski (Przyczynska in Poland).

Best,
Elzbieta
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kimbo8867



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:28 pm      Post subject:
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[quote="Magroski49"]Kim,

I have found an entry for Franz, 32, and Teodor, 22, arriving at Ellis Island on October 6, 1899, sailing from Hamburg on ship Italia, departured on October 11. I read their profession as "baker".

Their surname was misspelled as Lazicky (no Y after K in polish grammar) and their last place of residence was misspelled, too, as Chorza. Actually, it is now Tańsk-Chorąże
woj. mazowieckie
pow. mławski
gmina Dzierzgowo
located just 4 miles Northwest from Dzierzgowo.

Since Dzierzgowo records are online through Poczekalnia project (http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/) I was able to find Franciszek's birth record in 1865 (not 1867, as stated on the ship manifest). You can view and download it here (entry #62); http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/AP-Mlawa/Dzierzgowo/1865/_M_2932.jpg

That village is plenty of Lazycki.
Parents' names were Jan Lazycki and Agnieszka Sparzak.He was born on April 1st in Dzierzgowek, a village of 157 souls, between Dzierzgowo and Tansk-Choraze.

As to the Sopuch, I think this is their marriage:
1881 - #85 - Jakub Sopuch and Franciszka Ciborowska, in Goworowo .
Birth dates are indexed from 1889 on, so I could not find a birth for Frances (Franciszka).
However, I have found the following children:
1891 398 Helena
1894 403 Franciszek
1897 413 Władysław
1899 252 Zofia
1902 403 Jan
1906 160 Stanisława
You can view their records (and more Sopuch families in Goworowo) here:
http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=243&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=sopuch&search_lastname2=&exac=1&rpp1=0&bdm=A&w=07mz&op=gt&lang=pol

Finally, Franciszka birth record must be in Archiwum Diecezjalna in Plock. Though their records are not online, you can order thse two LDS films to view it:
Akta urodzeń 1881-1888 1809646
Akta urodzeń 1888-1889 1809647 Items 1 - 2

Gilberto

Hi Gilberto, this is Kim from NY again with the Lazicki questions. Upon further study and review of old notes, I am now leaning more toward another Franz Lasicki (that's how it was spelled in ellis island records) arrival. This one arrived on 2/22/1906 was 22 at that time was single, Polish and last place of residence was Czary, Russia. Where is Czary compared to my great grandmothers town of Ludwinow or Growowo? I suspect the two families, Sopuch and Lazicki lived near each other because my great grandmother had a sister that married a Lazicki. Any input when you get a moment would help me. Thanks Gilbert, Kim in NY
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:48 pm      Post subject:
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kimbo8867 wrote:


Gilberto

Hi Gilberto, this is Kim from NY again with the Lazicki questions. Upon further study and review of old notes, I am now leaning more toward another Franz Lasicki (that's how it was spelled in ellis island records) arrival. This one arrived on 2/22/1906 was 22 at that time was single, Polish and last place of residence was Czary, Russia. Where is Czary compared to my great grandmothers town of Ludwinow or Growowo? I suspect the two families, Sopuch and Lazicki lived near each other because my great grandmother had a sister that married a Lazicki. Any input when you get a moment would help me. Thanks Gilbert, Kim in NY


Kim,

There is a Czarnowo and a Czernie close to Goworowo and Luwinow. Maybe the name was misspelled in your source?

Gilberto
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