Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:12 am
Post subject: Scandavian women in Poland
My maternal grandmother was born in northeastern Poland, a few miles from the Belorussian border, in the 1880's. I have had my DNA analyzed, and my mT DNA matches indicate a Scandinavian origin for my maternal line. My grandmother was thoroughly Polish, spoke Polish, and practiced Polish culture. So, how did her maternal ancestors get to Poland from Sweden via Finland and when? Not having located her birth record in Poland, I can only guess. Does anyone else find themselves in this situation? Has anyone documented Scandinavian origins for Polish women? Any ideas are welcome.
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rsowaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 177
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:14 pm
Post subject:
I recommend you research Polish history during the period 1600-1700. There were a large number of wars between Sweden and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Especially during the period 1648 and 1667 which is referred to as "The Swedish Deluge". Poland was effectively decimated and those that survived, probably married into Scandinavian families. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28history%29 Frankly, I would be surprised if there was NO Scandinavian DNA in those of us with Polish roots.
Not sure if it is relevant at all, but two of the branches of my ancestral lines include red and blond hair..including my Dad that had flaming red hair. My assumption has been that we got it from those Scandinavian invaders. 
Best,
Richard
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 597
Location: GermanyBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:20 am
Post subject:
| rsowa wrote: | I recommend you research Polish history during the period 1600-1700. There were a large number of wars between Sweden and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Especially during the period 1648 and 1667 which is referred to as "The Swedish Deluge". Poland was effectively decimated and those that survived, probably married into Scandinavian families. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28history%29 Frankly, I would be surprised if there was NO Scandinavian DNA in those of us with Polish roots.
Not sure if it is relevant at all, but two of the branches of my ancestral lines include red and blond hair..including my Dad that had flaming red hair. My assumption has been that we got it from those Scandinavian invaders.
Best,
Richard |
Richard,
That's interesting. I recently came across an ancestors's marriage record whose name was spelled O'Bryk, born in the Jaslo region, while in records of other family members the name is spelled 'Obryk'. I was wondering if O'Bryk could hint at a Scandinavian heritage as well (or does it sound more Irish??).
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valerie potuck
Joined: 01 Apr 2014
Replies: 21
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:03 pm
Post subject:
How very interesting this subject is. I wondered the same thing. My husbands y dna came back also Scandinavian. His haplo group is I1.
His family is from Karptske Turka Raion Ukraine (Galicia) the nationality is Ruthenian
We thought all this time he was Polish & came from Poland. This is new information to us. Lots of blue eyed blondes in the family.
I am just starting to research the Ruthenian people & this area of Galicia.
Thanks for the history of Poland during of 1600-1700.
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sirdanPO Top Contributor
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Replies: 304
Location: ** Southeast Pole**Back to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:10 pm
Post subject:
The "Swedish Flood" in XVII century would be indeed one of the reasons. But while going deeper in history, there are more interesting facts, about Vikings residing on east Europe territories in ancient times. Rather was it trading, or maybe conquering, they might "left" some gens. Vikings in ancient times were strong and ruled quite big area. Some internet site suggest they founded kievan rus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 check for viking or scandinavian words. Here is small sample too http://www.simkovich.org/carpatho-rusyns.carpathorussianhistory.htm
Also look here http://admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com/ click on dot on Poland country, there are some connections with Norway area. The study is based on data from 1,490 people from around the world, not sure if thats enough to take study seriously. Study suggests, that "admixture" could happen at wide spread of time around 1000 year and a bit earlier. It is indeed interesting subject, but i looks like scientists still tries complete puzzles. Gens, chromosomes, language origins, archeological artefacts, this really helps to answer question what was the history here at the beginning of the A.D.
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valerie potuck
Joined: 01 Apr 2014
Replies: 21
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:51 pm
Post subject:
Sirdan, thank you again you have given me great info to research. So very helpful.
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starshadowPO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 May 2013
Replies: 306
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Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:57 am
Post subject:
One of my great-grandmothers came from Lomza, and I've been getting a lot of DNA links from her side into Lithuania and Finland. It seems the Bialystok area was quite a melting pot.
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PhilipPO Top Contributor
Joined: 03 Mar 2014
Replies: 117
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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:25 pm
Post subject:
Hi gcking,
| Quote: | | My maternal grandmother was born in northeastern Poland, a few miles from the Belorussian border, in the 1880's. I have had my DNA analyzed, and my mT DNA matches indicate a Scandinavian origin for my maternal line. My grandmother was thoroughly Polish, spoke Polish, and practiced Polish culture. So, how did her maternal ancestors get to Poland from Sweden via Finland and when? Not having located her birth record in Poland, I can only guess. Does anyone else find themselves in this situation? Has anyone documented Scandinavian origins for Polish women? Any ideas are welcome. |
I agree what Richard said
| Quote: | | There were a large number of wars between Sweden and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Especially during the period 1648 and 1667 which is referred to as "The Swedish Deluge" |
It was a very important war in the polish history, during many wars entire families moved to other countries.
But on the other hand there were also many merchants traveling during that time. I've read about British merchants coming to Poland but also Italian artists and architects worked for the Polish government at the time.
Phil
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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:26 pm
Post subject: Scandanavian blood
As some of you probably know, when Poland was part of an empire or commonwealth with Lithuania not only were there tons of minority people in the commonwealth, but there were wars with Germany, invasions from the Tatars from central Asia and the invasion from Sweden, which at the time wasn't just where it is today. It encompassed Finland, Estonia and probably part of Latvia and Russia today. So they didn't have to come across the Baltic sea, they just needed to head south into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I'm sure there was a lot of rape going on, and I can imagine a lot of women being taken back to the Swedish lands. That was the way of war.
Tracing back on the maternal side would seem to be difficult to do being that most countries kept records and gave names in a paternalistic way. I'd be interested in hearing if you were able to trace back your maternal line more than a few generations.
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:19 pm
Post subject:
My maternal line stops with my great-grandmother, and I don't know much about her. My grandmother supposedly came from the town of Sidra, just a few miles on the Polish side of the Belorussian border (from her immigration record), but of course back then it was Russian Poland. Anyway, the records from that area and time do not seem to have survived. It took me almost 40 years to establish her actual maiden name, because she was illiterate and my mother always wrote it phonetically. We all thought that it was Jenczaryk when actually it was Henczaryk. That's why I was so interested in the mT DNA data. I understand about the wars, but the invaders should show up more in the Y-DNA as they were mostly soldiers. I think it more likely that it was a soldier in a Russian army operating in Finland who brought her maternal ancestor back home!
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:49 pm
Post subject: Swedish ancestors
Gcking,
Not quite following your DNA logic, but clearly this was an area that was heavily invaded by the Swedes, and the Russians were said to have been of nordic stock, so it could have been Russian/Finnish or something like that.
You know there are a lot of research options for Polish records. Years ago, I thought they were all lost, but I have had some luck finding some of my ancestral records. Gotta keep digging.
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johndrca
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Replies: 6
Location: TorontoBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:29 am
Post subject:
In 1977 , archeologists discovered a Goth burial site a few kilometers south of Hrubieszow and dated it to the years 200 to 400 A..D. Maslomecz (cmentarzysko nordyckiego ludu Gotow) , contains the remains of approximately 600 persons , the majority women and children whose origins appears to be from South Sweden. The locals have since created a Skansen Village as a tourist destination. The gravesite is in a diamond shape with the centre core vacant and the individuals arranged around this point. Many of the women were without heads.The valley where this site is located must have been part of the Amber Road leading from the Baltic to the Black Sea ; hence the Norse migration.
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:33 am
Post subject:
| johndrca wrote: | | In 1977 , archeologists discovered a Goth burial site a few kilometers south of Hrubieszow and dated it to the years 200 to 400 A..D. Maslomecz (cmentarzysko nordyckiego ludu Gotow) , contains the remains of approximately 600 persons , the majority women and children whose origins appears to be from South Sweden. The locals have since created a Skansen Village as a tourist destination. The gravesite is in a diamond shape with the centre core vacant and the individuals arranged around this point. Many of the women were without heads.The valley where this site is located must have been part of the Amber Road leading from the Baltic to the Black Sea ; hence the Norse migration. |
John,
Thank you for sharing.
The following scientific article gives a description:
http://www.pan-ol.lublin.pl/biul_5/art_505.htm
Best,
Elzbieta
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aleksanderzPolishOrigins Team
Joined: 21 Jul 2017
Replies: 56
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:28 am
Post subject:
Smreczak,
The Dagome name you mention is one of the theories about Mieszko's baptism name. Dagome could also come from Frankia side, not necessarily Scandinavia. It would be a baptism name, which means Mieszko was still his first.
There are a lot of theories that Polans originated from Vikings as in Kiev's Rus case, but they weren't proven.
And the Western and Eastern Polans you have mentioned were completely two different tribes.
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