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DsS



Joined: 15 Mar 2015
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:58 am      Post subject: Inquiry re Szeliga family name
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Hello... I'm a newbie on this Forum.

I am wondering please if you could possibly be able to help me with the letter of a place name that are on a ships list of passengers to New Zealand. The word starts with what looks like an O but in fact I realised it is a J (I think ?)..


My relative Marianne Szeliga aged 24 yrs was traveling with a family Kubala. The Kubala family it says were from Frankstadt and that Marianne Szeliga was from Jraust (Oraust?)

Marianne Szeliga's father is said to have come from Frankstadt... As I cannot find this place Jraust or Oraust, I am left with a Mystery of sorts. I originally thought Jraust/Oraust may have been somewhere in Frankstadt, or even in the regions of Szeliga village?
The boat was called STONEHOUSE and it sailed in 1874.

I'm throwing this one out there to you 'in hope'... Smile

Many thanks

Debs

Edited to add: My Marianne Szeliga born c1850 was later known as Mary Szeliga here in New Zealand and her father was Michael Szeliga and her mother 'Mary' Szeliga, no written evidence of her maiden name. I have know idea of where they actually did come from other than a on Marianne's (Mary) Death Cert here in NZ, states her father was from Frankstadt.

I would be grateful if anyone could help me locate details of the family and where they come from. Marianne is the only Szeliga to come to NZ from the family. I have no idea if she ever had any siblings?



Szeliga STONEHOUSE 1874.jpg
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Marianne's name is spelt differently on a couple of records, but it is actually Szeliga.
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Szeliga  STONEHOUSE 1874.jpg


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nfstev



Joined: 17 Feb 2015
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:54 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Debs,
I am assuming the “Frankstadt” in your posting was the one that was located in the old Austria Partition when your family immigrated to New Zealand.
“Frankstadt” is now known as Nový Malín and is located in the Šumperk District, of the Czech Republic.
I am attaching a circa 1910 map that shows the village of Frankstadt. I looked around the surrounding villages for a location that looks like JRAUST/ORAUST but came-up empty.
Best regards,
Norbert



Frankstadt Austria 35-50 cropped.jpg
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:10 pm      Post subject:
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nfstev wrote:
Hi Debs,
I am assuming the “Frankstadt” in your posting was the one that was located in the old Austria Partition when your family immigrated to New Zealand.
“Frankstadt” is now known as Nový Malín and is located in the Šumperk District, of the Czech Republic.
I am attaching a circa 1910 map that shows the village of Frankstadt. I looked around the surrounding villages for a location that looks like JRAUST/ORAUST but came-up empty.
Best regards,
Norbert


Norbert,

From what I see in the link below there were two Frankstadt:
Frankstadt bei Mährisch Schönberg (Frankstadt a.d. Mähr. Grenzbahn): Nový Malín (bis 1948 Frankštát)) M,25
Frankstadt am Radhoscht (earlier: Frankstadt bei Mistek): Frenštát pod Radhoštěm M,17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_German_and_Czech_names_for_places_in_the_Czech_Republic#O

Gilberto
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DsS



Joined: 15 Mar 2015
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:15 pm      Post subject:
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Hello...nfstev and Magroski49, so grateful for your information. I was looking at some of the history of the area and was under the impression the Frankstadt, Austria was at one point taken under the German influence. But it then raises further questions also of the Polish name Szeliga which my Marianne's father's surname. Did they originate from the town of Szeliga?
Of course I have to try and source my family roots in Frankstadt first.
Is there any source that I maybe able to follow do you think in that area... Birth Deaths and Marriages Registry, Churches, or other links? I have tried the Mormons Data base, and the Ancestry.com which show a lot of Szeliga and name variations going to USA.
But it seems my Marianne to New Zealand is allusive... sadly
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:14 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Debs,
It does not say Jraust or Oraust. What it says is "Transferred to S.W." meaning her name has been transferred to a section of the ship's manifest for Single Women. I deduce this from the manifest for the ship which has been transcribed online http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Stonehouse.htm
You can see on that transcription people are listed as families, or as single men or single women. Look how many "transferred to s.m." and "transferred to s.w." there were.
Best regards,
Sophia
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PolishLibrarian
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:28 pm      Post subject:
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DsS~ Just a few observations. Both locations for the Austrian town of Frankstadt that Gilberto found are not that far from the current Polish border. Searching http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/ for each of the surnames - Kubala occurs 2nd most frequently in Bielsko-Biala and the Szeliga name most frequently in Nowy Targ, both counties close to the Czech border. The second location that Gilberto found (now Frenštát pod Radhoštěm) is the closest to Bielsko-Biala and Nowy Targ. Have you checked FamilySearch for records for Frenštát pod Radhoštěm as a place name?

Marianne is listed as a servant traveling with the Kubala family, but it's also possible she could be the sister of Agnes. It seems like many older children (12-14 years old) were also transferred from the family unit and listed on the Single Women list (there were quarters on the ship separate from Family quarters for the Single Women and Single Men. Have you considered searching NZ records for Agnes Kubala's death to see if her surname before marriage is listed? Just a thought. Don't know how difficult that is in NZ, since I don't live there. But I have visited and it is beautiful!!! Smile ~PL
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nfstev



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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:36 am      Post subject:
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Hi Debs,
As we indicated in our previous postings, there were two (2) locations in Austria with the name Frankstadt. Both are now in the present-day Czech Republic. One is called Frenštát pod Radhoštěm and is located in the District of Nový Jičín. The other is called Nový Malín and is located in the District of Šumperk.
I had personal family research done in the area of Hranice, Czech Republic for my wife’s family. I engaged a firm called Czech Census Searchers and they provided all of the research and translations of the documents. http://czechfamilytree.com/
There are census records available in the Czech Republic for the years 1850, 1857, 1869, 1880, 1890, 1900, 1910, and 1921. Some of these census records have been microfilmed and can be viewed on-line at the Family Search Organization:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-39750-12757-91?cc=1930345&wc=SJ24-MNG:226979201,1291768203,226974803,1291776002#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecapi%2Fsord%2Fcollection%2F1930345%2Fwaypoints
It appears that none of these documents have been indexed. You can browse through the documents one-by-one. You start out by selecting a District Nový Jičín than select the village within the District, such as Frenštát pod Radhoštěm. Repeat the process for Šumperk and Nový Malín.
I am attaching a copy of a translated 1857 Census for my family as an example of the information that is available.
Best regards,
Norbert



1857 Czech Republic Census--Drottner, Johann Family 1 of 4.jpg
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PolishLibrarian
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:25 am      Post subject:
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Debs~ If you go to this website http://mapire.eu/en/ and choose the box that says The Third Military Survey (1869-1887) (I did not use the 3D box) you will be presented with a map of all of Europe with the Austrian military survey map imposed over the appropriate area. In the search box (upper left) enter the current name of the Czech town you want to see, choose from the selections offered and hit the Search button. It will take you to the place on the survey map. At the top there is a slider that you can slide to the left to see the current Google map superimposed over the old survey map. This can give you a sense of where the two Frankstadt's are located.

It appears the Frenštát pod Radhoštěm is on a railway line that goes north to the border with Poland and from there a railway line goes east to Bielsko-Biala, so it would be fairly easy to travel from one location to another (Kubala name frequent in Bielsko-Biala). I guess I'm just building a case for this Frankstadt. But Norbert gives you another good lead with the Czech Census Searchers. The nearest census prior to their 1874 departure is 1869. If your ancestor was 24 in 1874 then she would have been about 19 in the 1869 census. A guess might be that Agnes was Thomas's second wife as there is 18 years difference in their ages. Because of this and the fact that Agnes and Marianne are close in age (28 & 24) I suggested Marianne and Agnes might be sisters. ~PL
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nfstev



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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:17 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Polish Librarian and Debs,
I really like the Historical Maps of the Habsburg Empire site with the Google Map overlays.
It appears that the New Zealand Kubalas are in fact from Frenstat. Here is link to an Ancestry Message Board where there is an exchange of information about the New Zealand Kubalas among family members.
http://boards.ancestry.ca/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=9&p=surnames.kubala
I went to the Family Search Site and searched the index for the Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910. The search produced for 755 records for the Szeliga surname and 4,476 records for the Kubala surname.
Both the Kubala and Szeliga surnames appear in Slovakia and the Czech Republic.
http://forebears.io/surnames/kubala
http://forebears.io/surnames/szeliga
The bottom line for Debs is that her search should be focused in or around Frenstadt.
Best regards,
Norbert

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nfstev



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Post Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:28 am      Post subject:
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Here is a Hamburg passenger list for your ancestor's first leg of her emigration on board the vessel Will from Hamburg Germany to London.


Szeliga Marianne March 20 1874 Hamburg Departure Record.jpg
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DsS



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Post Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:11 am      Post subject:
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OH Gosh.... I don't know how to express my heart felt appreciation!!! Smile) I am so so happy to have this information, it is HUGE to me! Thank you thank you and thank you again... XO

I'm not sure if there is an Icon with Tears of Joy and Happiness to express how I am feeling at the moment everyone above who have posted ALL the info/links/facts and thoughts and suggestions.... My heart is racing now...haha.. I'm so excited...

Yes I had been wondering about this business of Agnes possibly being Mariannes sister... I have just today been in contact with a GG Grandson of Thomas and Agnes. His name is Adrian Kubala. He doesn't know anything other than the ship that his GG Grandparents came on. The family have wondered since who the other lady Szeliga was, travelling with them. He did say that the family were thought to be Catholic's. That obviously will help with some records..

Thank you very much, I will get my head round all this info.... Heart is still racing ...lol.... Smile)
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:37 am      Post subject:
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Debs~ The ship manifest Norbert posted is actually for the Capella (Witt was the captain) - apparently this ship got them to England and then they switched to the Stonehouse to sail to New Zealand. On this manifest (other pages) there are several other families also from Frankstadt.

Since I'm in the US I've only subscribed to the US version of Ancestry, but records from international sources show up on my search results list. Those results told me that Thomas Kubala died in 1913 and Agnes died in 1929 (it appeared they lived on the S. Island and perhaps in Southland). The death certificate might show Agnes's maiden name (and first names of her parents) if the person reporting knew that info (it wouldn't have been her husband reporting since he predeceased her). Again I don't know if Ancestry has the death certificate or if this was only an index record because I couldn't look at it without a World subscription. ~PL
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:48 am      Post subject:
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Hi Polish Librarian,
Ancestry has only the index record, not the image of the death certificate. There is also an entry on Ancestry for New Zealand Cemetery Records which sheds a little light, although with some inconsistency regarding Agnes' age (82 or 83 years old). It shows that Thomas Kubala is buried with his wife Agnes and their 3 week old grandson Cyril in Gore Cemetery in Eastern Southland, New Zealand. For Agnes it gives a place of birth as Austria. The informant for Agnes' info is "R.T. Weir." Perhaps Debs new contact Adrian knows who that is. Or Debs maybe be able to access the death certificates, which, as you suggested, is probably the best hope for finding out if Marianne and Agnes were sisters.
Best regards,
Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:50 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Hi Polish Librarian,
...Or Debs maybe be able to access the death certificates, which, as you suggested, is probably the best hope for finding out if Marianne and Agnes were sisters.
Best regards,
Sophia

Thanks Sophia for looking at the Ancestry World results. Also if Thomas & Agnes's children married in the Catholic church, the church marriage records may give Agnes' birth surname. Again not sure how accessible those records are in NZ. ~PL
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:10 pm      Post subject:
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I just searched Ancestry on the 2 children's names on the manifest. There's a family tree for Roman which says his mother Agnes was an Adamck (although I wonder if this should be Adámek). Roman married in 1897 & they had 8 children. In the tree itself it say both Thomas & Agnes were born in Frenštát pod Radhoštem, North Moravia, Czech Republic (although no printed source noted, but Thomas's parent's names are noted (no Szeliga connection)). So probably Agnes & Marianne were not sisters. There are pictures of Thomas, Agnes & Roman, but interestingly Roman is the only child of Thomas & Agnes on this tree. I wonder if the infant Agnes survived the journey. EDITED: I found another tree for Roman and this one shows he had 6 siblings, but all born after 1874.
Roman Kubala
Macdonald Family Tree
Birth: 1872 - Czech Republic
Marriage: 1897 - New Zealand
Death: 19 Feb 1957 - Gore, Southland, New Zealand
Parents: Thomas Kubala, Agnes Adamck
Spouse: Albina Maslan


Last edited by PolishLibrarian on Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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