Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - Can anyone translate this Prussian Birth record?

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mcdonald0517
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: Can anyone translate this Prussian Birth record?

Hi everyone,

After 3 years of searching, I finally found my great Geandmother and her family! Now I need to find someone who can translate German script. Can anyone in the forum do this or recommend someone who can? I have several birth records so far from Frąknowo.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Cynthia

Last edited by mcdonald0517 on Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject:

As a follow-on to my first post, attached is my great Grandmother, Paulina Kryger (Kruger) birth record. There are two pages, left side and right side.

If anyone can make out the German script I would greatly appreciate it.

She is the second entry on the page.

Thank you!
Cynthia

image.jpg

Description:

Page one Paulina Kryger birth

Filesize:

1.54 MB

Viewed:

5492 Time(s)

image.jpg

Description:

Page two Paulina Kryger Birth

Filesize:

1.56 MB

Viewed:

5492 Time(s)

Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:50 am Post subject:

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Cynthia,

I do hope someone will help.

Here is my deciphering of titles (incomplete, I do not speak German, alas), and Paulina's line

Best
Elzbieta

==
CORRECTED mistake: children were subdivided into legitimate and illegitimate. Thanks Sophia.
==
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/image_195.jpg
Jahre 1851 // Year 1851
Column: Title
C1: Zahl aller Gebornen und Gemeiten: zahl aller Geborenen und Gemeinden: Number of all births and Communities
C2: Zahl Sohn. | Tochter: Number of [son. | daughter], guessing: first number legitimate, second number illegitimate CORRECTED
C3: Tag der Taufe: day of baptism: mit ziffern und buch haben: with numbers and accounting
C4: Taufename: name of baptism
C5: Tag und Stunde des geburt: day and hour of birth:
C6: Name Stand und Wohnort der Vater: Name and place of residence of the father
NOTE: columns C1 and C2 are for statistics purpose

http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/image_803.jpg
vom 5ten Oktober bis zum 23 November // from 5th October to 23 November
Column: Title
C7: Name Stand und Wohnort der Mutter: Name and place of residence of the mother
C8: Wohnort des Vaters - Mutter: Location of the Mother
C9: Name Stand und Wohnort der Taufe Vater: Name and place of residence of GodFather
C10: Name … Geistlichen | Name and … Priest (Clergy)
C11: Bemerkungen: Remarks

==
Pauline Krüger's line:
43 – 12 girl – 5 October – Pauline Catharina – 28 ? September? – Andreas Krüger
Marianna Radziminski – Frankenau? – 1. Catharina Roszkowski? 2. Wilhelm Roszkowski? X? – (Saweryn) – (illegible remark)
==
C1: Zahl aller Gebornen und Gemeiten: zahl aller Geborenen und Gemeinden: Number of all births and Communities: 43
C2: Zahl Sohn. | Tochter: Number of [son. | daughter], guessing: first number legitimate, second number illegitimate: 12th girl, legitimate
C3: Tag der Taufe: day of baptism: mit ziffern und buch haben: with numbers and accounting: 5 October 1851
C4: Taufename: name of baptism: Pauline Catharina
C5: Tag und Stunde des geburt: day and hour of birth: 28 September 1851, ??
C6: Name Stand und Wohnort der Vater: Name and place of residence of the father: Andreas Krüger
C7: Name Stand und Wohnort der Mutter: Name and place of residence of the mother: Marianna Radziminski
C8: Wohnort des Vaters - Mutter: Location of the Mother: Frankenau?
C9: Name Stand und Wohnort der Taufe Vater: Name and place of residence of GodFather: 1. Catharina Roszkowski? 2. Wilhelm Roszkowski? X?
C10: Name … Geistlichen | Name and … Priest (Clergy): (Saweryn)
C11: Bemerkungen: Remarks: (illegible remark)

==

Last edited by Elzbieta Porteneuve on Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject:

Thank you Elzbieta! For not speaking German, you sure provided quite a bit of information! I really appreciate your efforts. Too bad that remark is difficult to read. I was really curious about it. I was wondering if it perhaps noted them as Roman Catholic. You see, I found her birth record in the Evangelical parish books at Skattau. Yet, later records for the Kruger (Kryger) family in the Masovian province were in Roman Catholic parish books. Maybe the Russian records were civil registrations rather than baptisms.

Again,

Thank you!
Cynthia

Sophia
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:17 pm Post subject:

Hi Cynthia and Elzbieta,
I can contribute a little bit of help.
First, my compliments to Cynthia for getting as good an image as you got under the challenging circumstance of using microfilm which is white on black. Next, my compliments to Elzbieta for deciphering as much as you did. Wow!
Yes, this is the year 1851, baptisms.
The count is indeed divided into columns for sons and for daughters. One small correction, though, as to the meaning of the column headings beneath that - - not living and dead, rather it is "ehelich" and "unehelich" which means legitimate and illegimate births. So, at the top of the page, you see the running tally carrying from the previous page - - on the baptism 41, the totals had been 26 legitimate sons, 2 illegitimate sons, 11 legitimate daughters and 2 illegitimate daughters. Got it? So on this page, the baptism above your Pauline is Friedrich, and he is the 42nd baptism, and he is the 27th legitimate male who was baptised. Your Pauline is the 43rd baptism, and she is the 12th legitimate female baptised.
In the column giving information on the father, it asks for "Name, Stand und Confession des Vaters" so not Wohnort (place where he lived) but rather Confession (spelled with a K these days) which is asking for the denomination of his religion, the most common answers to which would be katolisch (catholic) or evangelisch (protestant). So Cynthia, you do not need the remarks section to be translated to learn the answer to that question. We just need to understand what was written in this column. I am not sure what you think, but I think we are seeing "ditto marks" meaning his religion is the same as the father above him who was the same as the one on the previous page. Or maybe, because it was an Evangelical parish, it is the assumed religion and they only wrote the answer to Confession if it was different from Evangelical. You may wish to go back to the microfilm and look at other entries on other pages to see if the words katolisch or evangelisch ever appear.
I will take a look at other columns and see if I can see anything else.
Best,
Sophia

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject:

Sophia, thank you so much for your contributions. It does indeed help my understanding of these German records. I will take your advice and next time I am at the research center, I will look at previous entries to see how far back the "ditto" marks go in the book.

I also want to thank the following people for their unflagging assistance in my search these past 3 years - which finally paid off!! They are:

Elzbieta, for all of your translations of a variety of Kryger records as I searched to find clues to the origins of this family. And for your assistance in proposing options for the mysterious village of Frank....? in the existing records I had for the Kryger family.

Ryszard, again, for all of your translations of the Russian records for other Kryger family members that eventually led to my trying Frankenau which today is Fraknowo.

Gilberto and Sophia for providing me with the keys (i.e., column headers) to unlock the mysteries of the German parish books so I could have a map of what I was viewing. This led to my actually finding Paulina's birth record.

And, to that little voice inside of me that urged me to look beyond Roman Catholic records and order the films for the Protestant church! Bingo.

What is always the case: I found Paulina's birth record, and two other birth records for sons born to my GGG Grandmother, Maria Radziminska on this film roll. However, these additional birth records are filled with more questions and mysteries as there is no birth father listed, and in one record, in the column where the father should be listed, instead, there is a stamp with what looks like the picture of a church. I will be posting these two records later today and asking for help in deciphering them. I am really curious about that stamp or seal!

Thank you all again. I am thrilled to finally find this branch of my family!
Cynthia
Very Happy

Sophia
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:07 am Post subject:

Hi Cynthia,

Three years! So persistence does pay off. I looked at the other columns and I cannot give you any more info than Elzbieta already did. I will just comment that the surname is written here as Krueger (Kruger with an umlaut over the "u") which, with German pronunciation, would have almost the same pronunciation as Polish Kryger. I guess that was obvious to you but I just wanted to say it.

Looking forward to seeing the other birth records that you found. In records that I have seen, when the father's name is not listed on the baptism document, it is often a case of the birth being "unehelich" or illegitimate. Let's see what the case is for your records.

Best,
Sophia

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:36 am Post subject:

Hi Sophia

Thanks for looking again at the document. The detail you picked up on the surname is very helpful! I didn't know the umlat transliterated into English spelling ue. This gives me another spelling to consider. It also helps in another way. I recently had my dna tested for matrilineal genetics and one of the potential matches is a person who has the surname Kreuger in his family tree! He is probably related to me through Paulina's family.

Thank you!
Cynthia

Sophia
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject:

Hi Cynthia,
Yes, the ü is to be written "ue" when you do not have the ability to type the umlaut, so you do now have a new spelling to use when searching. The same goes for ä=ae and ö=oe. However, do not confuse ue with eu, by which I mean that Krüger=Krueger but they are not the same as Kreuger. The combo "eu" takes a sound like "oy" (rhymes with Helen of Troy). Just wanted you to know.
Best,
Sophia

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