Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:23 pm
Post subject: Wojciga/more information Radom/Krzeszow/catholic records
I'm looking for more information about my Grandfather, Louis Wojciga/Wujciga, he arrived (age 5) from Hamburg with his sister who was 13years old Anna Wojciga: My uncle says they are from Radom, Poland. My grandfathers parents were farmers.
Passenger record indicates as follows:
Anna Wojciza
Ethnicity Austria, polish
last place of residence: Krzenovw, Austria
date of arrival: 9/23/1911
ship of travel: Kaiserin Auguste Victoria
port of departure: Hamburg
I'm having difficulty finding any church records, baptisms, marriages etc. Does anyone know province? I think Kingdom of Poland period. Under Russian rule. My grandfathers sister Anna watched her parents get killed at the age of 13, My grandfather was born 1905? but not sure where to find records or surname I'm really confused about. I know WOJ means peasant..so I think a small farming town around Radom, poland. Any ideas?
Last edited by fiverus on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:51 pm; edited 3 times in total
|
|
|
Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
Back to top |
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:48 pm
Post subject:
Hi, Your grandfather's name was Jan? I see Anna and Jan on the manifest along with others with the surname indexed as Wojciza (the 'z' looks like a 'g' to me) Jan age 34, Marni (it doesn't looks like Marni to me. I'm not sure what is written), age 33, Ludwig age 9 Benedykt age 7, Jan 4 years and 6 months, and Anna 13. Do you know what relatives Anna and Jan came with?
It says they are from Austria - the area of Poland that Austria took over called Galicia. I did not find Krzenovw, as the village was indexed. MAYBE it is Krzeszow, and you could find that on a map. Maybe another set of eyes here at Polish Origins can have a look and tell us what they think.
They were going to a friend in Chicago, their contact in Poland was Jan's mother Agata Wojciga. It does give the last residence and birth place for all of them as Krzenovw (spelling), but that isn't always accurate.
Some draft registrations will have a birth place more specific than Poland. If he was Catholic, they might have the place he was baptised among his other sacramental records. Sometimes the informant on a death record will know exactly where a person was born, and that information will be there...
Cheri
|
|
|
Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
Back to top |
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:34 pm
Post subject:
I found someone looking for your family at a Polish genealogy site!! - http://tinyurl.com/c7fbnyz
This is what it says, do you have someone to translate it for you? Otherwise maybe someone here will be kind enough to do so, and then maybe translate a reply from you as well:
Witam,
Pani Krystyno zwracam się z prośbą o pomoc w poszukiwaniach i sprawdzenie następujących osób
Jan Wojciga (ur 30.03.1905), Maria Wojciga, Anna Wojciga, Ludwig (Louis) Wojciga (ur 07.01.1905 lub 25.12.1901)
Benedikt Wojciga.
Osoby te podróżowały razem i przybyły do USA w 1912. Była to trójka dzieci i ich opiekunowie. Nie jestem pewna która z kobiet była siostrą Jana i Ludwika. Chciała bym się dowiedzieć czy są tam dane dotychące miejsca zamieszkania (lub urodzenia) w Polsce.
Chyba posuwam się w przeciwnym kierunku niż większość osób poszukujących:)
Udało mi się odtworzyć losy jana i ludwika ale o powostałych osobach niestety nic nie znalazłam. Chciała bym się dowiedzieć czegoś zwłaszcza o siostrze Jana i Ludwika.
Będę wdzięczna za wszelkie informacje,
Pozdrawiam
Kasia
Last edited by Cheri Vanden Berg on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
Back to top |
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:32 pm
Post subject:
Cheri & fiverus~ I took a look at the Ellis Island manifest. I agree that it looks like Wojciga (note how the z is written in the surname before the elder Jan). I think Jan’s wife might be Maria (M is the same as Michal on line 27). Note how the lower case a in both Jan’s and Anna are not completely closed at the top of the letter similar to the way Maria’s lower case As are written. As for the town they came from and where elder Jan’s mother Agata lives – Krze..ow . There are 3 Krzeczow towns in Poland – one northwest of Czestochowa, and two in Malopolska – one south of Myslenice before you get to Rabka Zdroj, and one just east of Bochnia, but the writer of the manifest makes a very distinctive lower case z and I don’t see that in the undefined letters in Krze..ow. I would guess it said Krzenow, but that name doesn’t show up in Google Maps.
Also note dates added to young Jan’s line – 10/6/34 and Anna’s line – 9/20/40. Could represent when they applied for citizenship. Composed before I saw Cheri's last post. My 2 cents for what it's worth. ~PL
|
|
|
PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
Back to top |
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 pm
Post subject:
fiverus~ Have you looked at marriage records for young Jan and Anna? The Polish genealogy site posting had a second posting below with a link to ancestry.com search results. Anna Wojciga married Martin Novak in Chicago on July 7, 1923 - a church record might provide name of village where born and parnet’s names. Do you know what church they married at? The records might be there at FamilySearch.org, just not yet indexed. Young Jan was married by 1930 - what about a church marriage record for him and Margaret?
There's a 1910 Census record that has a widowed Jan Wojciga age 32 living in Chicago (with Andrew and Stanislava Czapski) immigrated in 1907 from Russia (so this could be the elder Jan from 1912 manifest who remarried).
There’s an Ellis Is. Manifest for the ship Graf Waldersee arriving 3 Aug. 1907 with a Thomas Wojciga (line 9) age 28, married, last residence (possibly) Laskowice, nearest relative (hard to tell what the relationship is) Maria Wojciga in Krzeszow. He seems to be traveling with the fellow on line 8 Jan Kadel age 35, married, last residence Krzeszow, nearest relative Maria Kadel in Krzeszow, going to Chicago. Each of these men is going to a br-in-l (both names hard to read) on the 800 block of 18th St. in Chicago. Except for first name – the dates and nearest relative names line up with the Jan who came with Maria in 1912. There is a Thomas Wojciga who died in 1914 in Hennepin County MN (Minneapolis) – could this be the Thomas who arrived in 1907? Brings up more questions than answers.
|
|
|
Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
Back to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:16 am
Post subject:
Hi,
Polish Librarian gave you good suggestions.
Cook county has a naturalization index:
http://tinyurl.com/yeukmso
It's a work in progress, and so far there is only one Wojciga indexed there - Louis. I looked up what the Polish name was for Louis, and it is Ludwig, so this Louis is the 9 year old that immigrated with your grandfather Jan. It says his birth place was Radom.
Record Details for Volume 387
Page Number: 570
Declaration Number: 192870
FIRST NAME LAST NAME OCCUPATION
LOUIS WOJCIGA INSTALLER
BIRTH CITY BIRTH COUNTRY BIRTH DATE
RADOM POLAND 1/7/1902
CURRENT ADDRESS CURRENT CITY
1846 W. CULLERTON CHICAGO
DEPARTURE LOCATION ARRIVAL DATE DECLARATION DATE
HAMBURG, GERMANY 9/23/1911 7/13/1927
If you don't already have your grandfather Jan's naturalization record, you can order it here for $10.00:
https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonline/start.swe?SWECmd=Start&SWEHo=eservices.archives.gov
I've attached the information from an index found at Ancestry or Family Search. Copy all the information from it if you are going to order it, so that you can give as much information as you can to the National Archives. I believe if they had to search for his papers, the price would be much higher, so copy down the certificate # etc.
When you find your grandfather's birth place, it's possible that the LDS have church records for Radom and/or Krzeszow that you would be able to able to look at on microfilm (for a fee). I did not look closely at the years though, so first find his birth place, and you can go from there.
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
77.75 KB |
| Viewed: |
11930 Time(s) |
|
Last edited by Cheri Vanden Berg on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:01 pm
Post subject:
Hi Cheri,
My grandfathers name is Louis Wujciga, his sister name was ANNA or (Jan) polish. and his brother John Wojciga. My grandfather spelled his name with "u" instead of "o" (Wujciga) and (Wojciga). Can I use John's naturalization record to find the information I need? Im so new at geneology and apolgize for not knowing LDS means? You've been very helpful.
I've attached 2 files..that I found
Karen
| Description: |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
20130404131225676.pdf |
| Filesize: |
42.45 KB |
| Downloaded: |
683 Time(s) |
| Description: |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
20130404131221784.pdf |
| Filesize: |
46.96 KB |
| Downloaded: |
563 Time(s) |
|
|
|
Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
Back to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:48 am
Post subject:
Karen,
Are you familiar with the Family Search site: https://familysearch.org/
LDS is The Church of the Latter Day Saints. They have microfilmed many records from all over the world (unfortunately not the areas that my grandparents are from in Poland, which I whine about). If you go to their site, on the top of the page it says Family Tree - Learn - Family Search Centers - Indexing - Blog . If you go to Learn, you will find answers to many questions, if you go to Family Search Centers, you can find one near you. They are usually in a room in the church building, but there are also libraries that house a Search Center. If you find a microfilm that you would like to search (you'd find it in their catalog) you could have it sent to the Family Search Center of you choice and rent it for 3 weeks. Actually, you could go to the Center and see if anyone has rented microfilms of interest enough times (I think that it is 3 times) that it is part of their permanent collection. At a Center you could also ask volunteers questions. Some are more knowledgeable than others, of course.
I think the LDS intent to get all their records online. Volunteers help with this, that is what the category "Indexing" is on the top of the page. They actually are in the process of indexing Radom. It says that there are 11,043 records indexed so far (but I don't know specifically what they mean by "Radom", maybe villages within the diocese). If you scroll down their main page, you can click on Continental Europe, then click on Poland, and you will find Poland, Radom Roman Catholic Church Books 1587- 1966.
As you can see, you can do a name search to find records that they already have online. They have a number of Cook County, Illinois records.
I am sure that you are more familiar than I am with Radom. I do see that Radom is a Diocese, in the Archdiocese of Częstochowa (I think it is NOW, but it might not have been in in that Archdiocese in the time period you will be looking for records). Like you said in your first post, I wonder if they lived in a small village near Radom. At the Family Search site, under the heading Discover Your Family History is the Catalog, click on that, and for the place name enter Radom. There is only one thing for Radom, Poland, and that is a book. Under Poland, Kielce, Radom Church records, it looks like they only go through 1877. I too, am confused by this. Maybe someone with more knowledge of Radom records can help (PLEASE!)
You've probably seen this before:
Kielce and Radom gubernias were two of the ten gubernias (provinces) of the Kingdom of Poland (Russian Poland) from 1867 to 1917. It is the area between the Pilica and Wisła [Vistula] rivers. Today, this region corresponds roughly to south-central Poland, much of the area between Warsaw and Kraków.
There is a little more information here: http://www.jewishgen.org/krsig/articles/GeographicHistory.htm
I have much more to learn about the history of Poland.
I'm not clear on whether or not you know Louis' parents names? Do you know the story of who shot them? It's okay if you don't want to share, I just have an endless curiousity.
As far as the naturalization records go, if you don't already have it, you could order Louis' if you'd like to see it. Since Radom was listed in the index at the Cook Co. site, I imagiine that is what it says. I actually finally ordered my grandfather's after I ran across the National Archives site for you. I know where he is from, but I have wanted to see it anyway. If an extra $10. isn't a problem, you could gamble on seeing if John or Anna's naturalization record has a different birth place. Polish Librarian also gave great advice about finding their parents' names (if you don't already have them.) and there is the possibility that there specific birth place could be there as well.
If you don't mind if I ask, was Louis Roman Catholic, Greek Catholic, Jewish? I don't want to assume anything, and it makes a difference on where to look. If he married in a church, you could ask them what his record says in their books.
Do you have any idea how Louis was related to the adults that he travelled with?
There might have been more that I was going to add...I hope I haven't confused you more...If you have any further questions, just ask. Everyone has started out new to genealogy. I still feel like I'm just beginning.
Cheri
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:14 pm
Post subject:
Cheri,
Thank you so much for your thorough and very informative post. I'm learning alot of good tips! My grandfather Louis Wujciga/Wojciga is Roman Catholic. I know his sister Anna Wojciga saw their parents get killed I think by Russians. But because passenger record says Austria, Polish I think Krzenovw or part of Radom was under Austrian rule. Louis Wujciga/Wojciga/age 5 or 7 came here with his sister Anna Wojciga/13yrs/John Wojciga/3ys. However, Polish Librarian has some very good information because the name Kadel is mentioned and I know when my grandfather arrived here there was a family Kadel(note sure on spelling) took care of the 3 of them because they were so young. Also, Polish Librarian mentioned Agata Wojciga as being their mothers name and knew someone in Chicago, I think Kadel's lived in Chicago and that's where they were all going. But it looks like they traveled with a Maria Kadel who is also from Krzenow.
I think Krzeszow/Powiat-Bilgorajski/province-Lubelske
My weekend project is to try to find out what church/parish they belonged to when they arrived here in Chicago. And search for sacremental records/marriage records. Not sure where to start since they lived with another family Kadel (spelling?) in Chicago..
Thank you everyone for your strong support!
Karen
|
|
|
dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:58 pm
Post subject:
Karen,
I think that a possible parish in Chicago could be St. Adalbert's on 17th & Paulina. If they lived on the 1800 block of Cullerton in Pilsen according to the earlier post for Louis' declaration of intention, then St. Adalbert would be the closest Polish parish to that street. I never lived in Pilsen, but my best friend from college married a girl from Pilsen and so I spent quite a bit of time with them in that neighborhood and stood up to their wedding at St. Adalbert's in 1970. There are two Wojciga Catholic marriage records prior to 1915 (the cut off year for the films) and they are both for St. Adalbert's. The first is for Thomas Wojciga who was born in 1879 and married on June 8, 1909 (St. Adalbert 1909 page 28 #87) According to the marriage entry he was born in Klecza Wadow (=Wadowice). Thomas died on 12/25/1910 and was buried at Resurrection Cemetery (Justice, Illinois). The second Wojciga is again at St. Adalbert's and is Catherine the widow of Thomas (1914 p.29 no entry number). The Polish Genealogical Society of America in Chicago has a database of the marriages in Polish Catholic parishes. The website is www.pgsa.org Images of the actual records are found on www.familysearch.com which is a free site operated by the Mormon church. Since filmed records stop in 1915, your grandfather was too young to have his marriage on those films. To obtain a copy of his marriage it would probably be necessary to contact the parish directly. Since the records are in Latin and most current parish secretaries do not have much Latin knowledge, I would recommend that you ask for a photocopy of the record in order to get as much accurate information as possible from the record.
Hope this helps.
Dave
|
|
|
Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
Back to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:59 pm
Post subject:
Karen,
I thought maybe you'd like to see the record that Dave has mentioned, Thomas and his wife are the 4th couple down.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13032-47664-47?cc=1452409&wc=11822834
On this record they have the baptism date, and where it took place (or maybe it's the birth record, the information should be the same). Earlier records that I've seen at St. Adalbert's it don't have that information. I've also see other Chicago churches have that information, and not have that information. Hopefully they will have added it for your grandfather.
Thomas' father was also named Thomas, and his mother was Anna Warchat (maiden name). The bride Kathryn Hraca's parents names are under the groom's parents' names, Franciscus and Marian Landowska (maiden name). Further to the right are the witness names, and they might be (a little hard to read) Ladislaw Targas and Antonia Fluder. I don't know if any of those names mean anything to you. The first names are the Latin versions of their Polish names. I just thought you'd like to see what a marriage record could look like.
Dave makes an excellent point about getting a photocopy of the record when you find where your grandparents married.
Cheri
|
|
|
PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
Back to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:54 pm
Post subject:
Cheri~ Interesting to note that Kathryn Hraca is from Odrowaz (that town of great interest to many here). Also I think Thomas's mother's maiden name is Warchał (l with the line through it, rather than t). ~PL
|
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:33 am
Post subject:
| PolishLibrarian wrote: | | Cheri~ Interesting to note that Kathryn Hraca is from Odrowaz (that town of great interest to many here). Also I think Thomas's mother's maiden name is Warchał (l with the line through it, rather than t). ~PL |
All,
Re: record 87
I read Thomas's mother name as Warchół.
The ending two letters are exactly like in record 88 in the name Sophia Podół.
Elzbieta
|
|
|
Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
Back to top |
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:36 am
Post subject:
| PolishLibrarian wrote: | | Cheri~ Interesting to note that Kathryn Hraca is from Odrowaz (that town of great interest to many here). Also I think Thomas's mother's maiden name is Warchał (l with the line through it, rather than t). ~PL |
Thanks PL and Elzbieta. I should have noticed that was the Polish letter ł. Not too surprising that with my inexperience, I don't think I've seen it at the end of a name.
It is disappointing that Odrowaz isn't identified further in the record, since there is more than one village by that name. I have seen Odrowaz, Nowy Targ, in other marriage records...Please tell me that there is only one Radom!
Karen, I should have told you that you have to sign up for a free account at Family Search to see these images. You just have to have a username and password. I was reminded of that when I went back to look at the image.
Cheri
|
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:38 am
Post subject:
Karen - fiverus,
Here is a map of Europe from 1900, with cities - it helps a lot to understand things.
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist151/maps/QuizI2009/slides/Europe%201900.html
In no particular order, but I put numbers to have it easier.
1. My grandfather spelled his name with "u" instead of "o" (Wujciga) and (Wojciga).
==> "o" with accute is spelled "u", I guess original name was Wójciga
see today distribution of this name in Poland:
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/w%25C3%25B3jciga.html
2. My uncle says they are from Radom, Poland.
==> Radom is a well known city, today quite a big, main roads to the South go throu Radom
3. Anna Wojciga saw their parents get killed I think by Russians.
==> On the map you will see Radom - it was under Russians in 1900.
4. Your family (three children) came to the US:
last place of residence: Krzenovw, Austria
date of arrival: 9/23/1911
ship of travel: Kaiserin Auguste Victoria
port of departure: Hamburg
==> you correctly found that it is
Krzeszow/Powiat-Bilgorajski/province-Lubelske
that place was in Galicia, see 1900 map
I checked today map of Poland, on the map from 1900 Gmina Krzeszow is in the "red nose" above a line between Krakow and Lemberg (Lwow)
You may read history of Bilgoraj here http://www.sztetl.org.pl/en/article/bilgoraj/3,local-history/
==> the history of Gmina Krzeszow is here:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmina_Krzesz%C3%B3w
The question arises why such a long distance from Radom (174 km between radom and Gmina Krzeszow).
We may speculate: killed mother, family decision to emigrate children to the US. They have to leave Russian part of Poland, and go to Hamburg (or Bremen). Probably they had a family or friends in the countryside in Krzeszow, in Austrian part of Poland, they moved children there, and it started this way.
In 1900 the roailways were well implemented in Galicia, one could travel from Przemysl to Krakow or to Vienna, or to Hamburg.
5. I checked Cheri's URL http://tinyurl.com/c7fbnyz
The information provided by Krystyna on 18-11-2011 - 20:40 is about 4 children: Anna born 1898, Ludwik born 7 Jan 1902 , Benedykt born 1904, and Jan born 30 Mar 1905, traveling with their father Jan born 1877, and the mother Maria born 1878.
Four children, not three, and a mother.
That is different from what you wrote: Louis/Ludwik, Anna, and Jan, same dates of birth, but orphans, killed mother
"My grandfathers name is Louis Wujciga, his sister name was ANNA or (Jan) polish. and his brother John Wojciga."
May we imagine that there was a women with a child, willing to travel to the US as well, and that a widow Jan with 3 children, and Maria with Benedykt, formed 6-person family just for the travel? Irrealistic hypothesis? (maybe, but recall some movies, like "America, America" of Kazan)
6. Polish archives
The map
http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/pl/archiwa-pastwowe/98-mapa.html
and the table
http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/images/stories/Archiwapanstwowe/zasi%C4%99g%20terytorialny_uaktualnienie_2013_styczen_15.pdf
with main address
50. Archiwum Państwowe w Radomiu – Centrala – ul. Rynek 1, 26-600 Radom
Elzbieta
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Register