tganey
Joined: 28 Feb 2018
Replies: 5
Location: Tampa, FLBack to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:03 am
Post subject: Peter Zowarka, Tarnau 1849 translation
Please assist with translation of the following documents. I am researching my 2x great grandfather Peter Zowarka from Tarnau, Opole (b.1813).
I am uncertain if one or both are in German. I would like to know what kind of documents these are as well.
Thank you for your help!
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_________________
Tish Ganey
Interest in surnames Zowarka, Smiga from areas in and around Tarnow, Opole with details previous to 1855. Also families from this area who immigrated from Hamburg, Germany to Galveston, Texas around 1855.
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Peter Zowarka, Tarnau 1849 translation
| tganey wrote: | Please assist with translation of the following documents. I am researching my 2x great grandfather Peter Zowarka from Tarnau, Opole (b.1813).
I am uncertain if one or both are in German. I would like to know what kind of documents these are as well.
Thank you for your help! |
Hello Tish,
The two documents are excerpts from the baptism register. As they are written in German, I would assume they are from the Protestant church in Oppeln [Polish Opole].
The document PeterAndAgnes1849 is the baptismal record for Franciska Zimon, daughter of Anton Zimon and his wife Helena, born Wotzlaw. Peter Zowarka, a farmer from Tarnau, was godfather.
The document PeterZowarkaTarnauSm is the baptismal record for Francisca Zaworka, born on March 4 and baptized the day after. She is the daughter of the lodger [Einlieger] Peter Zaworka and his wife Elisabeth, born Ratuzny. The cottager [Häußler] Peter Zawarka was godfather. I would read the last two words as “von hier”, so if this is a church book from Oppeln, he lived there.
Hope, this helps
Michael
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tganey
Joined: 28 Feb 2018
Replies: 5
Location: Tampa, FLBack to top |
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:52 pm
Post subject: Peter Zowarka, popular godfather
Yes, this helps. Thank you very much. But like most of this work, it helps create more confusion and more questions! I love it.
So, we have two different Peter Zaworka/Zawarka (lodger and cottager as father and godfather)? I can imagine several scenarios where this might be the case (father/son, or maybe cousins that have same first name; in each case of obvious relation).
The other odd aspect is that my 2x grandfather Peter Zowarka was Catholic (at least when he was in the US).
Much thanks Michael!
_________________
Tish Ganey
Interest in surnames Zowarka, Smiga from areas in and around Tarnow, Opole with details previous to 1855. Also families from this area who immigrated from Hamburg, Germany to Galveston, Texas around 1855.
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a4u2fear
Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 230
Location: NY/USABack to top |
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:05 pm
Post subject:
Hey michael,
Do you have an opinion on this infant's name? Augsburg, Germany 1715.
Affia?
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a4u2fear
Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 230
Location: NY/USABack to top |
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:08 pm
Post subject:
Also curious, would you say the father's last name is Thoman or Thomas? I'd say Thoman
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:55 am
Post subject:
| a4u2fear wrote: | Hey michael,
Do you have an opinion on this infant's name? Augsburg, Germany 1715.
Affia? |
Hello Andrew,
I would read the name as "Affra". Saint Afra was a Christian matyr. Along with Saint Ulrich, she is a patron saint of Augsburg.
And I would read the father's last name as "Thoman", too.
Best regards,
Michael
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a4u2fear
Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 230
Location: NY/USABack to top |
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:27 pm
Post subject:
thanks Michael!
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a4u2fear
Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 230
Location: NY/USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:31 pm
Post subject:
Michael,
Two files attached from Tutzing, Germany, 1700s!
1) Capture, how would you read this last name? Hehendorfer?
2) Capture2, this infant's name is Mechtilde; which I believe to be similar to Mathilda. But i can't tell from the way it is written if it is female or male. Usually female names end in "a" but this is a feminine name ending differently
Always appreciate your opinion
Thanks.
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:25 am
Post subject:
| a4u2fear wrote: | Michael,
Two files attached from Tutzing, Germany, 1700s!
1) Capture, how would you read this last name? Hehendorfer?
2) Capture2, this infant's name is Mechtilde; which I believe to be similar to Mathilda. But i can't tell from the way it is written if it is female or male. Usually female names end in "a" but this is a feminine name ending differently
Always appreciate your opinion
Thanks. |
Andrew,
The name in Capture2 is Mechtildis, a variant of Mechthild, a female given name and an old form of Mathilde.
That was the easy part.
Regarding Capture: Well, obviously even the clergyman in 1705 had some problems in writing down this name. So let’s have a try: The first two letters look like “He”, the next letter is hard to recognize but might be a “k” (the “h” looks rounder), followed by an unclear letter, followed by “dorf”, one more letter is unclear and the suffix “in” indicates a woman (like in the crossed out name, too).
The second unclear letter might be an “l”, added to the name just because “dorfin” in German sounds weird, so it’s “dorflin”. And I wonder, whether the first unclear letter might also be an “l”, so it would make the name “Hekldorf”. There is some guessing in it and it might help to see another example of this name.
Best regards,
Michael
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2793
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:40 am
Post subject:
| Kmichael8 wrote: | | a4u2fear wrote: | Michael,
Two files attached from Tutzing, Germany, 1700s!
1) Capture, how would you read this last name? Hehendorfer?
2) Capture2, this infant's name is Mechtilde; which I believe to be similar to Mathilda. But i can't tell from the way it is written if it is female or male. Usually female names end in "a" but this is a feminine name ending differently
Always appreciate your opinion
Thanks. |
Andrew,
The name in Capture2 is Mechtildis, a variant of Mechthild, a female given name and an old form of Mathilde.
That was the easy part.
Regarding Capture: Well, obviously even the clergyman in 1705 had some problems in writing down this name. So let’s have a try: The first two letters look like “He”, the next letter is hard to recognize but might be a “k” (the “h” looks rounder), followed by an unclear letter, followed by “dorf”, one more letter is unclear and the suffix “in” indicates a woman (like in the crossed out name, too).
The second unclear letter might be an “l”, added to the name just because “dorfin” in German sounds weird, so it’s “dorflin”. And I wonder, whether the first unclear letter might also be an “l”, so it would make the name “Hekldorf”. There is some guessing in it and it might help to see another example of this name.
Best regards,
Michael |
Hi Andrew & Michael,
Since the entire record is in Latin the girl’s name appears in its Latin form. Mechtildis, is, f. is a Third Declension noun. As Andrew mentioned most feminine names in Latin end in the letter a. They belong to the First Declension and with some exceptions the vast majority of First Declension nouns are feminine. In Classical Latin the major exceptions are nouns which describe what were traditionally considered as masculine occupations like agricola, nauta, pirata, poeta, etc. (farmer, sailor, pirate, poet). The most common exceptions to the rule of thumb that First Declension names are feminine are names which originate from languages other than Latin. Many such names end in “as” in the Nominative but then take the usual First Declension endings in the remaining cases. Some examples are Aeneas, Mathias, and Thomas. Second Declension names are masculine and no exceptions come to mind. Third Declension names can be either masculine or feminine so it is important always to note the gender.
Back to Mechtildis...As Michael pointed out that Latin form was used as a variant of Mechthild. Another variant is Mechtilde. Two Catholic saints of that name are Mechtildis of Hackeborn and Mechtildis of Edelstetten. One lived in the 12th Century and the other in the 13th Century. I mention them because individuals from that time—especially nuns and monks—were usually known by the Latin form of their name. One man who comes to mind is Caesarius of Heisterbach (sometimes erroneously called in English Caesar of Heisterbach) who was a Cistercian monk and author of the same period. I mention him as another example of a person who was known by the Latin version of his name not because his writings are especially interesting but just as a male example. The bottom line is that the Mechtildis in the baptismal record could have been known by any of the variants of her name. My guess is that she was known to her family and friends by a variant other than Mechtildis, but that is only an opinion.
I find both the baptismal record of Mechtildis and of Affra/Afra interesting for several reasons. The format of the record is simple and straightforward and conveys all the information in a few words, which I find very pleasing. Both girls had the same female sponsor. (The + after the name Affra/Afra indicates that she died as an infant.) What I find most interesting is that each girl had only a female sponsor, which, of course, is perfectly legit since only one sponsor is required for the person being baptized.
Michael, in your experience was it a common practice in some regions of what would become Germany to have only one sponsor?
Thanks,
Dave
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:26 am
Post subject:
| dnowicki wrote: |
...
Michael, in your experience was it a common practice in some regions of what would become Germany to have only one sponsor?
Thanks,
Dave |
Hello Dave and Andrew,
Thanks for your explanation, Dave. From my experience I cannot confirm a common practice to have only one sponsor. In nearly all cases I’ve seen from Catholic regions in Germany, there were two sponsors, a man and a woman (“godparents”), but not necessarily married to each other.
Andrew, as you are digging deeper and deeper into the Augsburg area, you might have a look at
https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/
They have a good coverage of the church registers from Southern Bavaria.
Best regards,
Michael
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a4u2fear
Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 230
Location: NY/USABack to top |
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:24 pm
Post subject:
Thanks Michael and Dave.
I've seen a few other records and I think the scribe was trying to write Hechendorfer. Still need more proof.
The matricula site is the one I've been using for alll these records. It's been great since the mormon library is closed and this website is available. Love it.
Dave - I know you missed me posting latin records! And you have some high praise for these when usually the ones I post are poorly written haha.
Take care you guys.
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a4u2fear
Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Replies: 230
Location: NY/USABack to top |
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:10 pm
Post subject:
michael,
i realize this is basically a latin marriage record (Tutzing/Augsburg 1671), but there are some peculiar words in it that i assume are german. Could you translate? Or Should i try Dave in latin records?
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Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:50 am
Post subject:
| a4u2fear wrote: | michael,
i realize this is basically a latin marriage record (Tutzing/Augsburg 1671), but there are some peculiar words in it that i assume are german. Could you translate? Or Should i try Dave in latin records? |
Andrew,
You are right, the text is a mixture of German and Latin and hard to read. The message is:
On May 11, 1761 Blasius Thoma married Regina xxx. I am not sure about her name. It starts with an “L” followed by what is used as an “e” in “Gebhardt”, then followed by an “n” and the same combination which is used in Tutzing for the “tz”, so the name might be “Lentz” with the female suffix “in”: Lentzin. It’s a guess.
He was a “mäßmer”, I would understand this as “Messner” or sexton in Tutzing. She was from a place which looks like Bölhing. It might mean Böbling, around 27 kilometer Southwest of Tutzing.
Witnesses were Marcus Thoma and Casparus Gebhardt from Tutzing. You will find the same witnesses in the last entry of this page and the groom acted as a witness in the next entry also.
Hope that helps.
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Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:55 pm
Post subject: Baptismal record Archdiocese of Vienna
I am thrilled with the translation service being offered. Attached please find a baptismal record to translate from German from Wien.
Many thanks!
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