Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:41 am
Post subject: Re: Thomas Osczęda - death 1855
| Blue wrote: | Hi Michael
Thanks for the explanation about the comments in the final column of Johanna's death record. Can you please also help me with another death record? I can only read a few words as follows:
Page: 246-247
Parish: Türkwitz [Turkowy]
Year: 1855
Act number: 67
Datum das ____ = Date of death: 28 November 1855
Details: ____ November (1855) ___ Gohle ____ Thomas Osczęda ____ 1st December c ____
Alter Jahres: 70 = aged 70 years
Civil Mannlich = Statistics: male
Comments 1: ____
Comments 2: Thomas Osczęda [seems to refer to the name of the deceased] |
Hi Blue
Please find some addtions in bold:
Page: 246-247
Parish: Türkwitz [Turkowy]
Year: 1855
Act number: 67
Datum des Todestages = Date of death: 28 November 1855
Details: den achtundzwanzigsten November (1855) eintausendachthundertfünfundfünzig starb in Gohle der Wittwer und Einlieger resp[ective] gewesener Windmüller Thomas Osczęda und wurde den 1ten December c[urrentis] hierselbst begraben = He died a widower and lodger. Before he retired he was a miller in a windmill.
Alter Jahres: 70 = aged 70 years
Civil Männlich = Statistics: male
Todesart: Ruhr = Cause of death: dysentery
Comments 2: Thomas Osczęda [seems to refer to the name of the deceased]
Best regards,
Michael
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:30 am
Post subject: Jerzy Schiwek and Rozalią Schudy - marriage 1817
Thanks Michael. I struggle with the dates and the hand writing so I really appreciate your help.
I have a bit of a strange marriage record. To me, it looks like the marriage may have been entered in the marriage book several years after the event, as the entry is written in the comments column. I have attached a copy of the whole page and a close up of the marriage entry, so you can see what I mean.
I can only read the names and some places in this entry as follows:
Georg Schiwek, ____, Georg Schiwek in Schadegur [Sadogora], _____ Rosalia Schudy ____ Schadegur ____ Einliegers Johann Schudy ____ 11 November 1817 in ____ Kreuzendorf ______ Johann ____ Carl Schiwek ____ Schadegur ____ 30 ____ 24 _____
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:09 am
Post subject: Re: Jerzy Schiwek and Rozalią Schudy - marriage 1817
| Blue wrote: | Thanks Michael. I struggle with the dates and the hand writing so I really appreciate your help.
I have a bit of a strange marriage record. To me, it looks like the marriage may have been entered in the marriage book several years after the event, as the entry is written in the comments column. I have attached a copy of the whole page and a close up of the marriage entry, so you can see what I mean.
I can only read the names and some places in this entry as follows:
Georg Schiwek, ____, Georg Schiwek in Schadegur [Sadogora], _____ Rosalia Schudy ____ Schadegur ____ Einliegers Johann Schudy ____ 11 November 1817 in ____ Kreuzendorf ______ Johann ____ Carl Schiwek ____ Schadegur ____ 30 ____ 24 _____ |
Hi Blue
Well, it looks as if the church book or at least parts of it were reused five years later. The entries on the left side are from 1812 and 1813, the two entries on the right side are corresponding regarding the month, but were made five years later in 1817. I’ve seen this “reuse” in other church books too, hence I don’t think the marriages were registered after the event.
Please find a transcription first follwed by the translation:
Georg Schiwek, ältester Sohn des Bauer Georg Schiwek in Schadegur [Sadogora], wurde mit der Dienstmagd Rosalia Schudy aus Schadegur, ältester Tochter des Einliegers Johann Schudy aus Tschermine am 11. November 1817 in der Pfarrkirche zu Kreuzendorf vom Erzpr[iester] Kuntze copuliert. Zeugen: Johann Muszala u[nd] Carl Schiwek Bauernsöhne aus Schadegur. Bräutigam 30; Braut 24 Jahre alt.
Georg Schiwek, the eldest son of the farmer Georg Schiwek in Schadegur, was copulated by Archpriest Kuntze on November 11, 1817 in the parish church in Kreuzendorf with the maid Rosalia Schudy from Schadegur, the eldest daughter of the lodger Johann Schudy from Tschermine. Witnesses: Johann Muszala and Carl Schiwek farmers' sons from Schadegur. Groom 30; bride 24 years old.
Best regards,
Michael
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:18 am
Post subject: Maria Catharina Oszczeda - birth
Hi Michael
Thank you for letting me know about the church record books being re-used as well as the help with the transliteration and translation.
I have another birth record that I am struggling to read as follows:
Herzberg ___ 28ten November
Maria Catharina
___ 25ten fünfundzwanzigster November 1852 ___ Joseph Oszczeda in Herzberg ___ Ehefrau Josepha geb. Schiweg ____ 28ten November ____ Maria Catharina ____ zu Kreuzendof ____ Hertel ____
Sponsors:
1. Rosina _ettig in _____.
2. Johana Nowak ____ in Herzberg.
3. Franz Kruber ____ in Charlottenthal.
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:27 am
Post subject: Re: Maria Catharina Oszczeda - birth
| Blue wrote: | Hi Michael
Thank you for letting me know about the church record books being re-used as well as the help with the transliteration and translation.
I have another birth record that I am struggling to read as follows:
Herzberg ___ 28ten November
Maria Catharina
___ 25ten fünfundzwanzigster November 1852 ___ Joseph Oszczeda in Herzberg ___ Ehefrau Josepha geb. Schiweg ____ 28ten November ____ Maria Catharina ____ zu Kreuzendof ____ Hertel ____
Sponsors:
1. Rosina _ettig in _____.
2. Johana Nowak ____ in Herzberg.
3. Franz Kruber ____ in Charlottenthal. |
Hi Blue
Please find some additions in bold and a translation:
Herzberg den 28ten November
Maria Catharina
den 25ten fünfundzwanzigsten November 1852 ist dem Joseph Oszczeda in Herzberg von dessen Ehefrau Josepha geb. Schiweg eine Tochter geboren worden, die den 28ten November mit Namen Maria Catharina in der Pfarrkirche zu Kreuzendof vom Erzpriester Hertel getauft wurde.
On November 25, 1852, a daughter was born to Joseph Oszczeda in Herzberg by his wife Josepha, née Schiweg, who was baptized on November 28 with the name Maria Catharina in the parish church of Kreuzendof by Archpriest Hertel.
Sponsors:
1. Rosina Rettig Häuslerfrau [wife of a cottager] in Zachciale [read: Zachziale, in 1885 six houses belonging to Schadegur].
2. Johanna [Please note the “Dopplungsstrich“ above the “n“, meaning “nn“. Can also be found above the “m”] Nowak Häuslerfrau in Herzberg.
3. Franz Kruber Kolonist in Charlottenthal.
Best regards,
Michael
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:26 am
Post subject: Jan Oscenda - birth 1847
Hi and thank you Michael.
I have another birth record that I can only read names and places as follows:
Datum ____: 27 Januar 1847
Page: 322-323
Parish: Turkowy [?] 1846/7
____ Januar ___ Gohle ____ Joseph Oscenda ____ Josepha gebroen Schiwick ____ 25 ____ Johann _____ Johanna Kokol, Thomas Oscenda, ____ Kokol.
Nro. 4
____ → presumably a legitimate male child.
[Last column]: Joseph Oscenda sohn Johann
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:42 am
Post subject: Re: Jan Oscenda - birth 1847
| Blue wrote: | Hi and thank you Michael.
I have another birth record that I can only read names and places as follows:
Datum ____: 27 Januar 1847
Page: 322-323
Parish: Turkowy [?] 1846/7
____ Januar ___ Gohle ____ Joseph Oscenda ____ Josepha gebroen Schiwick ____ 25 ____ Johann _____ Johanna Kokol, Thomas Oscenda, ____ Kokol.
Nro. 4
____ → presumably a legitimate male child.
[Last column]: Joseph Oscenda sohn Johann |
Hi Blue
Please find some additions in bold:
Datum des Tauftages: 27 Januar 1847
Page: 322-323
Parish: Türkwitz [Polish: Turkowy] 1846/7
den siebenundzwanzigsten Januar ist aus Gohle des Einlieger Joseph Oscenda und seinem Eheweibe Josepha geborene Schiwick ein den 25 huijus geborenes Söhnlein getauft und Johann genannt worden. Z[eugen] Johanna Kokol, Thomas Oscenda, [unsure about this given name] Kokol.
[On January 27 a son born on January 25 to the tenant Joseph Oscenda and his wife Josepha nee Schiwick from Gohle was baptized Johann. Witnesses Johanna Kokol, Thomas Oscenda, [unsure about this given name] Kokol.]
Nro. 4
a legitimate male child.
[Last column]: Joseph Oscenda Sohn Johann
Best regards,
Michael
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:16 pm
Post subject: Joseph Oscenda - birth 1860
Thank you Michael. I have a birth record for Jan's younger brother, Joseph, and would very much appreciate your help.
I read it as:
Page 248-249
Year: 1860
Der Tag, an welchem die Taufe verrichtet worden = the date of the baptism:
Herzberg ____
9 ____ September
Joseph Oscenda
Wesentliche Anmerkungen bei vorkommenden Taufen aus s. 2 des Reglements = regulatory details of the baptism:
dem Einlieger Joseph Oscenda, zu Herzberg ___ Ehefrau Josepha geb. Schiwek, ___ 5 ___ September 1860 Tausend acht hundert acht und sechzig ____ 9 _____September _____ Joseph ____.
____ Rosina ____ Schadegur, Joseph _____ Schadegur.
Anzahl der Getauften nach ihrem Geschlecht und Umständen = Number of baptized according to their sex and circumstances:
No. der Taufen = Number of baptism (ie act number): 47
Knaben - eheliche: Statistics: legitimate male child
Anmerkungen = Comments: blank
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:32 am
Post subject: Re: Joseph Oscenda - birth 1860
| Blue wrote: | Thank you Michael. I have a birth record for Jan's younger brother, Joseph, and would very much appreciate your help.
I read it as:
Page 248-249
Year: 1860
Der Tag, an welchem die Taufe verrichtet worden = the date of the baptism:
Herzberg ____
9 ____ September
Joseph Oscenda
Wesentliche Anmerkungen bei vorkommenden Taufen aus s. 2 des Reglements = regulatory details of the baptism:
dem Einlieger Joseph Oscenda, zu Herzberg ___ Ehefrau Josepha geb. Schiwek, ___ 5 ___ September 1860 Tausend acht hundert acht und sechzig ____ 9 _____September _____ Joseph ____.
____ Rosina ____ Schadegur, Joseph _____ Schadegur.
Anzahl der Getauften nach ihrem Geschlecht und Umständen = Number of baptized according to their sex and circumstances:
No. der Taufen = Number of baptism (ie act number): 47
Knaben - eheliche: Statistics: legitimate male child
Anmerkungen = Comments: blank |
Hi Blue
Please find some additions in bold and some comments below:
Page 248-249
Year: 1860
Der Tag, an welchem die Taufe verrichtet worden = the date of the baptism:
Herzberg den
9. neunten September
Joseph Oscenda
Wesentliche Anmerkungen bei vorkommenden Taufen aus s. 2 des Reglements = regulatory details of the baptism:
dem Einlieger Joseph Oscenda, zu Herzberg ist von seiner Ehefrau Josepha geb. Schiwek, am 5. fünften September 1860 Tausend acht hundert sechzig ein Sohn geboren worden, der am 9. neunten September in hies[iger] Kirche vom Pf[arrer] Hertel mit Namen: Joseph getauft wurde.
Pathen: Rosina Rettig Häuslerfrau aus Schadegur, Joseph Paluch, Freistellenbesitzer aus Schadegur.
Anzahl der Getauften nach ihrem Geschlecht und Umständen = Number of baptized according to their sex and circumstances:
No. der Taufen = Number of baptism (ie act number): 47
Knaben - eheliche: Statistics: legitimate male child
Anmerkungen = Comments: blank
You might have noticed some patterns in these entries:
Dates are written in figures and repeated in words, they are introduced with a preposition like “am” or “den”, hence a typical date looks like “am 5. fünften September 1860 Tausend acht hundert sechzig”.
There are two dates: the earlier one, when a child was born “ein Sohn / eine Tochter geboren worden” and the later one, when this child was baptized “mit Namen xxx getauft wurde”.
The father’s as well as the sponsors’ status or profession is provided. In this example we see an “Einlieger” or lodger, a “Häuslerfrau” or the wife of a cottager and a “Freistellenbesitzer” or a farmer. These are examples of are quite complex social stratification which varied from region to region. A helpful (German) description for Silesia can be found here:
http://www.namslau-schlesien.de/Standesbezeichnung_laendlich.htm
Best regards,
Michael
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:28 pm
Post subject: Thomas Oszczenda - death 1905
Hi Michael.
Thanks for your help with the birth record and for the extra advice. I have written myself a list of all 31 dates but I still seem to really struggle reading the numbers when they are handwritten in words (and I really do not want to get their birth and baptism dates wrong). Thanks also for the link to the explanation about occupations and land ownership - it's really interesting.
Will you please help me with another death record?
Nr. 5
Laski am 18 Januar 1905
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute,
der Persönlichkeit nach bekannt,
der Haüsler [?] J___ Gattner
wohnhaft zu Ignacowka 1
und zeigte an, dass der Auszügler Thomas Oszczenda
63 jahres alt,
katholischer Religion,
wohnhaft zu Ignacowka 1
geboren zu unbekannt [?],
sohn der ___ Oszczenda, zu ____ wohnhaft in Ignacowka und _____ Ehefrau, wohnhaft in Ignacowka; _____ unbekannt [?]
zu Ignacowka 1 _____
am achtzehn [?] ten Januar
des Jahres tausend neun hundert und fünf
vormittags um ____ Uhr
verstorben sei. _______
Der Anzeigende erklärte, ____
Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschreiben
____ Gattner
Der Standesbeamte
[signed by registrar]
Also a very feint note on the left hand side. _____
Roughly translated to:
Nr. 5
In Laski, on 18 January 1905, the person known (to the registrar) as the cottager, J____ Gattner, living in Ignacowka 1; said the retired farmer [?], Thomas Oszczenda, aged 63 years, Catholic, living in Ignacowka 1, unknown birth place; son of ___ Oszczenda, living in/ from [?] Ignacowka, and his unknown named wife who was also living in/ from [?] Ignacowka; died on 18 [?] January 1905 in the morning at ___ am.
The informant may have been present or knew about the death somehow.
Signed by the informant and registrar.
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:36 am
Post subject: Re: Thomas Oszczenda - death 1905
| Blue wrote: | Hi Michael.
Thanks for your help with the birth record and for the extra advice. I have written myself a list of all 31 dates but I still seem to really struggle reading the numbers when they are handwritten in words (and I really do not want to get their birth and baptism dates wrong). Thanks also for the link to the explanation about occupations and land ownership - it's really interesting.
Will you please help me with another death record?
Nr. 5
Laski am 18 Januar 1905
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute,
der Persönlichkeit nach bekannt,
der Haüsler [?] J___ Gattner
wohnhaft zu Ignacowka 1
und zeigte an, dass der Auszügler Thomas Oszczenda
63 jahres alt,
katholischer Religion,
wohnhaft zu Ignacowka 1
geboren zu unbekannt [?],
sohn der ___ Oszczenda, zu ____ wohnhaft in Ignacowka und _____ Ehefrau, wohnhaft in Ignacowka; _____ unbekannt [?]
zu Ignacowka 1 _____
am achtzehn [?] ten Januar
des Jahres tausend neun hundert und fünf
vormittags um ____ Uhr
verstorben sei. _______
Der Anzeigende erklärte, ____
Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschreiben
____ Gattner
Der Standesbeamte
[signed by registrar]
Also a very feint note on the left hand side. _____
Roughly translated to:
Nr. 5
In Laski, on 18 January 1905, the person known (to the registrar) as the cottager, J____ Gattner, living in Ignacowka 1; said the retired farmer [?], Thomas Oszczenda, aged 63 years, Catholic, living in Ignacowka 1, unknown birth place; son of ___ Oszczenda, living in/ from [?] Ignacowka, and his unknown named wife who was also living in/ from [?] Ignacowka; died on 18 [?] January 1905 in the morning at ___ am.
The informant may have been present or knew about the death somehow.
Signed by the informant and registrar. |
Hi Blue
Please find some additions in bold. I also included some comments in [ ].
Nr. 5
Laski am 18 Januar 1905
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute,
der Persönlichkeit nach bekannt,
der Häusler Josaphat [The registrar used “ph“, the informant himself wrote his name with “f“ instead. This can be found often in German – like in “Photo“ or “Foto“.] Gattner
wohnhaft zu Ignacowka 1
und zeigte an, dass der Auszügler Thomas Oszczenda
63 Jahre alt,
katholischer Religion,
wohnhaft zu Ignacowka 1
geboren zu unbekannt,
Sohn des verstorbenen Häuslers Oszczenda, zuletzt wohnhaft in Ignacowka und seiner Ehefrau, wohnhaft in Ignacowka; die Namen beider sind unbekannt [The father was a cottager and deceased, he lived most recently in Ignacowka. The mother was still alive and lived in Ignacowka. Their names were unknown.]
zu Ignacowka 1 in seiner Wohnung
am achtzehnten Januar
des Jahres tausend neun hundert und fünf
vormittags um viereinhalb [half past four] Uhr
verstorben sei.
Der Anzeigende erklärt, daß er bei dem Sterbefalle zugegen gewesen sei. [”The informant declares that he was present at the death.” This or a similar wording was used when the informant was a third person – like a neighbor. In these cases you often find some “unbekannt” in the text, like here the place of birth or the parents’ names.]
Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschrieben
Josafat Gattner
Der Standesbeamte
Zuschke.
Also a very feint note on the left hand side. [the cause of death:] Wassersucht [dropsy]
Best regards,
Michael
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HelpTheFamily
Joined: 12 Mar 2022
Replies: 190
Location: Tokyo, JapanBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:33 am
Post subject:
Can you please translate this?
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 299
Back to top |
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:17 pm
Post subject: German Translation request
Hi Michael,
This request was edited for I found a better copy of the birth record.
I am hoping you can help me figure out this birth record.
This is what I know.
Franz Broda (aka-Franz Brodda) and Juliann Slomska had a set of twins on April 17, 1892. They are record number 37 and 38. I do not see a name for the twins. Do see a name for the twins?
There is writing at the end of the record that I cannot make out. Can you make it what it saying? I believe it stating the names of the spouses for the twins, is this correc?
Thank you for your time. Have a wonderful day!
Trish
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 690
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: German Translation request
| Trish wrote: | Hi Michael,
This request was edited for I found a better copy of the birth record.
I am hoping you can help me figure out this birth record.
This is what I know.
Franz Broda (aka-Franz Brodda) and Juliann Slomska had a set of twins on April 17, 1892. They are record number 37 and 38. I do not see a name for the twins. Do see a name for the twins?
There is writing at the end of the record that I cannot make out. Can you make it what it saying? I believe it stating the names of the spouses for the twins, is this correc?
Thank you for your time. Have a wonderful day!
Trish |
Hi Trish,
The priest forgot to write the names of the children. Only that they were the twins of Franz Brodda and his wife Julia. On the right is the date, place and name of the spouse. From the names of spouses, Franz Brodda and Julia had a son and a daughter. The daughter married Stanislaw Kobialka on 23.06.1918 in Poselge (Polish Żuławka Sztumska). The son married Gertruda San(?) on 5.12.1930. Can't read the name of the place where they got married.
Maybe Michael can read what I couldn't.
Barbara
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:48 pm
Post subject:
Would you please translate this birth notice for Martin Wujek? Thank you. wuness
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