Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:29 am
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | Could you help me understand what this list is and what it says about Valentin Slomian. What does the 4th column represent. This is from a Michalowo document. Thank you. wuness |
This list is an index, probably from a civil registry. The structure is: (1) name, (2) given name, (3) status and profession, (4) place of residence, (5) birth index (year and no), (6) marriage index (year and no), and (7) death index (year and no). In your case: (1) Smolian, (2) Valentin, (3) laborer [Arbeiter], residing in (4) Kirchlich Murzynowo [Polish: Murzynowo Koscielne], is mentioned in the (5) birth index, hence he was born in 1882, and his birth was filed in record no 8 of this year’s birth index.
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TedMack
Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 480
Location: Sydney, AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:07 am
Post subject: German Records Translation
G'day
Can you please translate the attached birth record
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:32 am
Post subject: Re: German Records Translation
| TedMack wrote: | G'day
Can you please translate the attached birth record |
Hi Ted,
Please find attached the translation. I understood from your others posts that the places mentioned here are already known to you.
Best
Michael
No. 153.
Dobrzyca, on August 3, 1875.
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, of known identity, the shepherd [Schäfer] August Bielisnki, residing in Trzebin, of Catholic religion, and gave notice that
Franciska Bielinska, born Lavinska, his wife, of Catholic religion, residing with him in Trzebin in his flat, on July 27, 1875 at four o’clock p.m. gave birth to a child a female gender and that the child received the name Hedwig.
Read aloud, approved and because the notice giver cannot write, marked with his sign.
+++ August Bielinski.
The Registrar.
Sauer.
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TedMack
Joined: 12 Jun 2020
Replies: 480
Location: Sydney, AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:51 pm
Post subject: Re: German Records Translation
| Kmichael8 wrote: | | TedMack wrote: | G'day
Can you please translate the attached birth record |
Hi Ted,
Please find attached the translation. I understood from your others posts that the places mentioned here are already known to you.
Best
Michael
No. 153.
Dobrzyca, on August 3, 1875.
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, of known identity, the shepherd [Schäfer] August Bielisnki, residing in Trzebin, of Catholic religion, and gave notice that
Franciska Bielinska, born Lavinska, his wife, of Catholic religion, residing with him in Trzebin in his flat, on July 27, 1875 at four o’clock p.m. gave birth to a child a female gender and that the child received the name Hedwig.
Read aloud, approved and because the notice giver cannot write, marked with his sign.
+++ August Bielinski.
The Registrar.
Sauer. |
Thanks Michael - yes it's always the way, you can't find something and you ask for help and then all of a sudden it jumps out and hits you in the face.
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cmik27
Joined: 26 Dec 2021
Replies: 4
Location: MassachusettsBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:15 pm
Post subject:
Hello, I think I have successfully translated a German death record but there is a handwritten addendum on the right (attached below) which I cannot make out. Can anyone translate if for me? I think it's a note saying that the original had the name of his wife incorrect. The record says her name was Marie, nee Kujawa, but actually her name was Franciska Kujawa.
Also, the death record mentions that the informant and the deceased were both "Torgelofler" which I translate as "gatekeeper" but I am wondering what this job actually is. Gatekeeper to what?
If you want the original death record, I can post that later but to keep things simply, I am posting only the handwritten part.
Thanks very much,
Cecilia M.
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mcdonald0517PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 961
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:08 pm
Post subject: Please translate 1820 birth record
Hi Michael,
When you have the time, please translate this birth record from Thalheim parish. I think it may be my ancestor but the surnames have been misspelled. What are the margin notes above and below the entry? And what village is in the left margin? Kamionken?
It is akt#6 - second entry on the page.
All the best,
Cynthia
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:55 am
Post subject:
| cmik27 wrote: | Hello, I think I have successfully translated a German death record but there is a handwritten addendum on the right (attached below) which I cannot make out. Can anyone translate if for me? I think it's a note saying that the original had the name of his wife incorrect. The record says her name was Marie, nee Kujawa, but actually her name was Franciska Kujawa.
Also, the death record mentions that the informant and the deceased were both "Torgelofler" which I translate as "gatekeeper" but I am wondering what this job actually is. Gatekeeper to what?
If you want the original death record, I can post that later but to keep things simply, I am posting only the handwritten part.
Thanks very much,
Cecilia M. |
Hi Cecilia,
You are right. In a nutshell the note says that the deceased wife’s name is not “Marie” but “Franziska”. Please find attached the German text of the addendum and a translation:
Nachstehende Abschrift
In Folge Verfügung des
Königliches Landgerichts III Linie[?]
kammer Posen vom 31 Mai
1889 IV T.B. No. 2662. wird hier-
mit berichtigend vermerkt,
daß die Ehefrau des Ver-
storbenen mit Vornamen
nicht „Marie“ sondern
„Franziska“ heißt.
Schroda den 7 Juni 1889
der Standesbeamte
gez. Roll.
Stimmt mit der hier befindli[chen]
beglaubigten Abschrift aus
dem Hauptregister wörtlich
überein
Schroda den 7 April 189[1]
[Signature]
Gerichtsschreiber des Haunitz[?]
Amtsgerichts.
Following copy
By reason of the decree of the Royal District Court III of Poznan from May 31, 1889, IV T.B. No. 2662. is herewith correcting noted, that the first name of the deceased’s wife is not "Marie" but "Franziska". Schroda on June 7, 1889. The registrar. Signed: Roll.
The accordance with the certified copy from the main register is approved. Schroda, on April 7, 1891. [Signature], Clerk of the district court.
Regarding the "Torgelofler" it might help to have a look at the death record.
Best
Michael
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Please translate 1820 birth record
| mcdonald0517 wrote: | Hi Michael,
When you have the time, please translate this birth record from Thalheim parish. I think it may be my ancestor but the surnames have been misspelled. What are the margin notes above and below the entry? And what village is in the left margin? Kamionken?
It is akt#6 - second entry on the page.
All the best,
Cynthia |
Hi Cynthia,
Entry #6 seems to be from Kamionken or Adlig Kamiontken. What I would read is:
des adl[igen] Einsaßen Michael Ra-
dcenowsky Ehefrau Gott-
lieba geb[orene] Bartasuwskin ist
in Ao [Anno] 1820 d[en] 9ten Febr[uar]
von einer Tochter entbund [en]
die d[en] 11ten eusd[em] Maria get[auft wurde].
Patr[ines] Martin Mursky
Barba[ra] Maranker
Cathar[ina] Wenczlaus
To Michael Radcenowsky’s wife Gottlieba, born Bartasuwskin, a daughter was born on February 9, 1820 and baptized on the name Maria on February 11. I am unsure regarding the family names of the godparents: Martin Mursky [There was a George Margsky in another document], Barbara Maranker, and Catharina Wenczlaus.
Michael is decribed as an “adeliger Einsaße”. If you have a look at Meyer’s Gazetter for Thalheim
https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20941079
you will find on the map “Adl[lig] Camiontken” directly North of Thalheim, the attribute “Adlig” separating this village from “Königlich” or Royal Camiontken in the same county. “Einsaße” is often used to describe a person living in a rented flat or just a room and working as a farm hand or day laborer.
I am not sure about the notes on the left margin, it might be something like: this entry was filed on - the upper one referring to entry #5 on February 22, the lower one referring to entry #6 on February 27.
Best
Michael
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cmik27
Joined: 26 Dec 2021
Replies: 4
Location: MassachusettsBack to top |
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:48 pm
Post subject: occupation ?Torgelofler of Casimir Wujek
Thank you very much for the translation of the note on Casimir's death record. As for the occupations of him and his son (Adalbert/Wojciech) I thought it might be Torgelofler. The words before his wife's name (Marie/Franciska Wujek nee Kujawa) I also can't make out. The full death record is attached
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mcdonald0517PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 961
Back to top |
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:28 pm
Post subject:
Hi Michael,
Thank you so much for translating the 1820 birth record for Maria.
I have another record. This is a 1808 death record for Gottlieba Radziminski. I can't make out the age of the deceased in the record which is a challenge because I have two Gottlieba Radziminskis in my family tree. I don't know which one belongs to this death record. So, I greatly appreciate your translating this one as well. It is the entry for the village of Frankenau (about the fourth entry I think) on the page.
I am making progress with some long time roadblocks thanks to your translations!!
Greatly appreciated,
Cynthia
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:03 am
Post subject: Re: occupation ?Torgelofler of Casimir Wujek
| cmik27 wrote: | | Thank you very much for the translation of the note on Casimir's death record. As for the occupations of him and his son (Adalbert/Wojciech) I thought it might be Torgelofler. The words before his wife's name (Marie/Franciska Wujek nee Kujawa) I also can't make out. The full death record is attached |
Hi Cecilia,
You nearly got it: Adalbert and Casimir were ”Tagelöhner“ or day laborer. The words in front of Marie are “verheirathet [in the upper line] mit der” or married with.
Best
Michael
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:20 am
Post subject:
| mcdonald0517 wrote: | Hi Michael,
Thank you so much for translating the 1820 birth record for Maria.
I have another record. This is a 1808 death record for Gottlieba Radziminski. I can't make out the age of the deceased in the record which is a challenge because I have two Gottlieba Radziminskis in my family tree. I don't know which one belongs to this death record. So, I greatly appreciate your translating this one as well. It is the entry for the village of Frankenau (about the fourth entry I think) on the page.
I am making progress with some long time roadblocks thanks to your translations!!
Greatly appreciated,
Cynthia |
Hi Cynthia,
You're welcome.
The entry from Frankenau is the 20th entry of this year. The German text is:
Ist dem adl[igen] Einsaaßen [in the 18th and 19th Century German you will sometimes find this double-“a” where you would expect a single one] Michael Radzeminski
eine Tochter Gottlieba [inserted: im 1. Jahr] d[en] 3ten Novbr. [1808] gestorben
und d[en] 6ten eiusd[em] beerdigt: Stückfluß [This seems to be the signature of the priest].
So this Gottlieba died as a little girl within her first year on November 3, 1808 and was buried on November 6, 1808.
Best
Michael
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cmik27
Joined: 26 Dec 2021
Replies: 4
Location: MassachusettsBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:50 pm
Post subject: Tagelohner
Thanks very much again, Michael. Tagelohner makes more sense given what I know of the family.
Ceil
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1026
Back to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:32 am
Post subject: Re: occupation ?Torgelofler of Casimir Wujek
| cmik27 wrote: | | Thank you very much for the translation of the note on Casimir's death record. As for the occupations of him and his son (Adalbert/Wojciech) I thought it might be Torgelofler. The words before his wife's name (Marie/Franciska Wujek nee Kujawa) I also can't make out. The full death record is attached |
Hi Cecilia,
I realize that Michael has already answered your question about the occupation Tagelohner. It might be useful for you, in future translations, to understand the handwriting a bit better. Actually, two styles of handwriting are used in these old records. One is very recognizable, such as where the month is written (November) and the place name (Koszuty Colonie). The other is quite different (der Tagelohner).
I think this will help you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCtterlin
Scroll down to where it says "Overview of the Letters." If you look, for example, at a lower case "a" you see how easy it is to interpret that as "or". Also notice how the lower case "e" looks very much like "n". It takes some getting used to, but since you have the ability to translate, you may be able to learn this handwriting style.
Best of luck!
Sophia
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cmik27
Joined: 26 Dec 2021
Replies: 4
Location: MassachusettsBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:58 pm
Post subject: Sutterlin studied but still stumped
Thank you for the reference for the Sutterlin script. I have been using this but it is still very difficult. The small r and a, to me, are almost indistinguishable, as are y and g, and n and u. And that's if the handwriting is clear, which it often isn't. This Sutterlin article said this script began in 1911 but my records are from well before then, and so I think it's not quite Sutterlin? In any case, attached is another death certificate. There are a few sections that I can't make out. The first is the relationship (if any) between this Nicholas Plocinnik or Nicholas' occupation (the word just before his name?) I also can't figure out the occupation of the deceased Jakob Platek: Auszeugler? Aussenberger? The final mystery is the word before his wife's name, Marianna Walkowiak. I know he was a widower but this isn't the word for widow, husband or spouse. Miss...? What is it? Thanks very much! I find German so difficult and much prefer records in Polish or Latin. 
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