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German records translations
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:09 am      Post subject: Re: Sutterlin studied but still stumped
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cmik27 wrote:
Thank you for the reference for the Sutterlin script. I have been using this but it is still very difficult. The small r and a, to me, are almost indistinguishable, as are y and g, and n and u. And that's if the handwriting is clear, which it often isn't. This Sutterlin article said this script began in 1911 but my records are from well before then, and so I think it's not quite Sutterlin? In any case, attached is another death certificate. There are a few sections that I can't make out. The first is the relationship (if any) between this Nicholas Plocinnik or Nicholas' occupation (the word just before his name?) I also can't figure out the occupation of the deceased Jakob Platek: Auszeugler? Aussenberger? The final mystery is the word before his wife's name, Marianna Walkowiak. I know he was a widower but this isn't the word for widow, husband or spouse. Miss...? What is it? Thanks very much! I find German so difficult and much prefer records in Polish or Latin. Sad


Hi Cecilia,
I understand what you mean about trying to match the very carefully written images of letters that are shown in that table with what an individual's handwriting was. What I can say is that, for people who are able to translate German, the ability to anticipate what a word should be is a big step forward in being able to conquer the old handwriting. Where you expect to find "ehefrau" or "witwer" or whatever, you can use the table to help you see the letters that are there. Regarding the letters "n" and "u" you are right, they are identical, except the "u" has a swoop above it (not sure what the German name is for that) to show you the difference.
I will leave the translations to Michael, as my skills are far too rudimentary.
Best,
Sophia

P.S. In addition to Sutterlin, there is also Kurrent.
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:25 pm      Post subject:
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Hello Michael,

I found some interesting documents in Family Search, but I am not quite sure what they are. The Family Search description says they are land tax records, but I am not sure. Some of them seem to be insurance records too. I will post several different ones over time.

Here is the first. The film description says: Spezialprotokoll 1717 -- Catastrum 1717 -- Spezialnachweisung 1782-1783.

I am posting the title page for this section and the page with an entry for my Radzyminski family in Frankenau. It is from the Spezialnachweisung 1782-1783 section of the film.

First, Can you give me an idea of what the title page says?

Second, Can you give me an idea of what the column headings say on the entry page? The entry page is very interesting to me as it may relate to a marriage record you recently translated for me for Anna Radzyminski, widow of Michael Radzyminski. Michael died in 1781 and his widow Anna remarried in 1782 to Johann Kykul. Under the Frankenau entry on this page, you will see a list of names. The next to last name on the list is first written as Anna Radzyminski then crossed out and Joh. Radzyminski written under it. The date for the section is 1782-1783. This date lines up with the year of Anna’s remarriage. I am wondering if this entry indicates that after Michael’s death, his widow was recorded as owner of the property, but after her marriage in 1782 the entry was changed to Johann Radzyminski. Could this Johann be Michael’s oldest surviving son inheriting the property at the time his mother remarried? Or, could it be another male relative such as a brother?

I find this fascinating…. And greatly appreciate your help to better understand it.

Best,
Cynthia



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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:50 am      Post subject: Re: Sutterlin studied but still stumped
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cmik27 wrote:
Thank you for the reference for the Sutterlin script. I have been using this but it is still very difficult. The small r and a, to me, are almost indistinguishable, as are y and g, and n and u. And that's if the handwriting is clear, which it often isn't. This Sutterlin article said this script began in 1911 but my records are from well before then, and so I think it's not quite Sutterlin? In any case, attached is another death certificate. There are a few sections that I can't make out. The first is the relationship (if any) between this Nicholas Plocinnik or Nicholas' occupation (the word just before his name?) I also can't figure out the occupation of the deceased Jakob Platek: Auszeugler? Aussenberger? The final mystery is the word before his wife's name, Marianna Walkowiak. I know he was a widower but this isn't the word for widow, husband or spouse. Miss...? What is it? Thanks very much! I find German so difficult and much prefer records in Polish or Latin. Sad


So let’s have a look at this record in a little more detail.

Nicholas relationship to Jakob is not mentioned. But there is a handwritten declaration at the end of the record: “Der Anzeigende erklärt, vom dem Tode sich persönlich überzeugt zu haben.” These or similar words were often used in cases when a third person like a neighbor acted as the notice giver. So it is very probable that Nicholas had no family relationship to Jakob.

Nicholas was a “Häusler”, someone owning a house – just a house. You will find terms like this to indicate a kind of social hierarchy: A “Wirth” or farmer was someone who had a farm and enough land to earn his living from. A “Büdner” or “Käthner” or cottager had but a small house (a “Bude” or a “Kathe”) and not enough land to earn his living from, so he had to work as a day laborer or a craftsman too. A “Häusler” had just a (small) house and maybe a (small) garden and also had to earn his living otherwise.

Jakob was a “Ausgedinger”. This term was used for a retired famer as well as for a retired cottager. You will also find “Auszüger”, “Altherwirth”, “Leibgedinger” and other words, all of them meaning by and large that the old generation retired and the next generation took over. This process was agreed upon (“ausbedungen”) and the elderly moved into a special room or a small house (“Altenteil”).

The word between “Wittwer” and “Marianna” is a mystery indeed. It looks like “nach” but I have no explanation for this word in this position.

Happy New Year!
Michael
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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:29 am      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Hello Michael,

I found some interesting documents in Family Search, but I am not quite sure what they are. The Family Search description says they are land tax records, but I am not sure. Some of them seem to be insurance records too. I will post several different ones over time.

Here is the first. The film description says: Spezialprotokoll 1717 -- Catastrum 1717 -- Spezialnachweisung 1782-1783.

I am posting the title page for this section and the page with an entry for my Radzyminski family in Frankenau. It is from the Spezialnachweisung 1782-1783 section of the film.

First, Can you give me an idea of what the title page says?

Second, Can you give me an idea of what the column headings say on the entry page? The entry page is very interesting to me as it may relate to a marriage record you recently translated for me for Anna Radzyminski, widow of Michael Radzyminski. Michael died in 1781 and his widow Anna remarried in 1782 to Johann Kykul. Under the Frankenau entry on this page, you will see a list of names. The next to last name on the list is first written as Anna Radzyminski then crossed out and Joh. Radzyminski written under it. The date for the section is 1782-1783. This date lines up with the year of Anna’s remarriage. I am wondering if this entry indicates that after Michael’s death, his widow was recorded as owner of the property, but after her marriage in 1782 the entry was changed to Johann Radzyminski. Could this Johann be Michael’s oldest surviving son inheriting the property at the time his mother remarried? Or, could it be another male relative such as a brother?

I find this fascinating…. And greatly appreciate your help to better understand it.

Best,
Cynthia


Hi Cynthia,

This document is a detailed (“Special”) list of contributions to be paid from the estates in the administrative district (“Amt”) of Neidenburg. The term “Kontribution” was used in Prussia as of around 1660 with the meaning of a constant tax for the maintenance of the standing army. It was a land tax on the base of taxable “Huben”.

On the entry page you will find a list of the estates, villages and the “Contribuenten” or as we would call them today: tax payers.

The next column shows the taxable land, the Radzyminski family having 3 Huben or around 22 Hektar. In 18th Century Prussia 1 “Hube” or “Hufe” had 7.6597 Hektar and was divided in 30 “Morgen”, 1 “Morgen” having 300 “Quadratruten”.

The annual tax (“General Huben Fuß”) was around 5 “Tahler”, the “Tahler” being divided in “Kreutzer” and “Pfennige”.

Additional 82 “Kreuzer” were paid for “Ritterdienste”. Originally the vassal or “Ritter” provided personal services to his feudal lord and these “Ritterdienste” were compensated with tax reductions. When “Ritterdienste” were no longer required, the tax reductions were cancelled.

The total sum of taxes to be paid can be found in the Column “Summa”.

This list was produced in 1782/83 and updated. Unfortunately the date of the update is not mentioned. It might have happened even several years later.

Hope this helps.

Happy New Year!
Michael
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rahul6sharma
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:50 am      Post subject:
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nice , Thanks for sharing !
davidckane



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:10 am      Post subject: Translation -- Niebojewski
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If someone could please translate this record, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks and happy new year!


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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:36 am      Post subject: Re: Translation -- Niebojewski
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davidckane wrote:
If someone could please translate this record, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks and happy new year!


David,

Please find attached the translation.

Michael

C. No. 121.
Inowrazlaw, on October 12, 1877.

Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, of known identity, the widow Victoria Niebojewska, born Olozewska, residing in Soykowo [Polish: Sójkowo], and gave notice that

Johann Niebojewski, of Catholic religion, residing with her, born in Soykowo on June 5, 1877, son of the notice giver and her deceased husband Josef Niebojewski, both of Catholic religion, died in Soykowo in her flat on October 11, 1877 from cough [an Husten].

Read aloud in Polish, approved, and because the notice giver cannot write, marked with her sign.
Victoria +++ Niebojewska
The registrar.
[Signature].
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davidckane



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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:27 am      Post subject:
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Thank you so much!
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davidckane



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Post Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:19 pm      Post subject:
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Hi. Would you mind translating row twenty two of this record? It's the one for Joseph Niebojewski and Victoria. I struggle to make out the handwriting on my own. Thanks so much for all the help!


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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:08 am      Post subject:
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davidckane wrote:
Hi. Would you mind translating row twenty two of this record? It's the one for Joseph Niebojewski and Victoria. I struggle to make out the handwriting on my own. Thanks so much for all the help!


Hi David,

This record is written in Latin. It might be better to post it in the Latin records translations thread.

Best,
Michael
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davidckane



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Post Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:44 am      Post subject:
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Thank you. My apologies.
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j_lex



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Post Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:38 pm      Post subject:
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I'm looking for a translation of the November 1892 birth of Peter. I'm just thrown off on the specifics regarding 'frau Josepha' reported and then signed the record.
Thank you!

The record is index'ed as:
"Peter, parents: Franz Grenda , Marianna Grenda geb.Stelmaszyk,
Other people appearing in the document: Josepha Stelmaszyk geb.Bazarnik"

edit: I'd still appreciate a translation, but looking at immigration dates Franz left in April 1892 so he would not have been present which makes sense why he was unable to sign or report the birth. Maryanna and the children left at the end of February 1893,



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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:28 am      Post subject:
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j_lex wrote:
I'm looking for a translation of the November 1892 birth of Peter. I'm just thrown off on the specifics regarding 'frau Josepha' reported and then signed the record.
Thank you!

The record is index'ed as:
"Peter, parents: Franz Grenda , Marianna Grenda geb.Stelmaszyk,
Other people appearing in the document: Josepha Stelmaszyk geb.Bazarnik"

edit: I'd still appreciate a translation, but looking at immigration dates Franz left in April 1892 so he would not have been present which makes sense why he was unable to sign or report the birth. Maryanna and the children left at the end of February 1893,


Hi,

Please find attached the translation of Peter's birth record.

Best
Michael

A. No. 105.
Tarnowo, on November 26, 1892.

Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, of known identity, the laborer’s wife [Arbeitersfrau] Josepha Stelmaszyk, born Bazarnik, residing in Ceradz Koscielny, [religion not provided], and gave notice that

Marianna Grenda, born Stelmaszyk, wife of the laborer Franz Grenda, both of Catholic religion, residing with her husband in Ceradz Koscielny in her husband’s flat, on November 21, 1892 at two o’clock p.m. gave birth to a child of male gender and that the child received the name Peter. The notice giver declares that she was present at the time of birth.

Read aloud, approved and signed.
Josepa Stelmaszyk.
The Registrar of the Civil Registry Office District Jankowice
Mieliarzewich.
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:25 pm      Post subject:
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Hello Michael,

Here are some additional pages of some sort of tax records for my Radzyminski family. These pages are for their estate in Pentzken, Neidenburg. No need for word by word translation, just give me general idea.

First, if you can look at the title pages and give me some idea as to what we are looking at, that would be helpful.

Second, please look at column headers on the entry page and give me some idea what we are looking at with particular interest in the line item for Pentzken - what looks like Mart: Radzyminski in one column followed by a Thom: Radzyminski in another column in same line. Wondering why two columns have 2 different Radzyminski names? Did ownership pass from Martin to Thomas? What is this line item recording? Is there any significant information on this line that may provide some clues abut the family, i.e., ownership, size of estate, etc.

Thank you!!
Cynthia



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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:44 pm      Post subject:
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Hello again, Michael,

Here is yet another tax entry of some sort for another estate of the Radzyminski family - Sagsau.

First, some idea of the title pages, especially the first title page. The second one simply reads "Adel" which I believe means "noble".

Second, some general idea of the column headers on the entry page with special attention to the entry for Sagsau. There are two Radzyminski names under Sagsau - Thomas Radzyminski and Casimir Radzyminski. Any clues that may help me to understand the family better is appreciated, i.e., estate or land size, owner, etc.

What is interesting, is that I have the estates of Pentzken (a previous request I posted for translation) and Sagsau cross-referenced with another source. It is a very old book entitled "Dead Prussian Nobles". This book has a paragraph on the Radzyminski family noting that the Neidenburg line of the family was centered in two estates: Sagsau and Pentzken. It also mentions that 2 brothers were living at the time of the book was written- both living at Pentzken - a Thomas and Gregor Radzyminski. My previous tax post for Pentzken shows a Thomas Radzyminski as of 1786. Now I see a Thomas here in Sagsau in 1717. More puzzle pieces!!

Thank you very much!!
Cynthia



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