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Podjazd



Joined: 14 Sep 2015
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:56 am      Post subject: Help needed deciphering ship Manifest for town name
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Hi, this question isn't strictly Polish but rather Ukraine related, hope you don't mind.

I'm trying to figure out the place name highlighted in red on this ship manifest. I can't make it out. Can anyone decipher it?

I am hoping it is a variant of Old Konstantin (could be written Konstantin, Konstantinov, and various other ways) or maybe somewhere near that town (now Starokonstantinov in Ukraine).



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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:31 am      Post subject:
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I read it as Neustadt.
German for New City.

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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:33 am      Post subject: Re: Help needed deciphering ship Manifest for town name
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Podjazd wrote:
Hi, this question isn't strictly Polish but rather Ukraine related, hope you don't mind.

I'm trying to figure out the place name highlighted in red on this ship manifest. I can't make it out. Can anyone decipher it?

I am hoping it is a variant of Old Konstantin (could be written Konstantin, Konstantinov, and various other ways) or maybe somewhere near that town (now Starokonstantinov in Ukraine).


Hi,

http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/manifest_195.jpg
I see rather Neustadt.
Nothing close to Konstancin, Konstantynów, or Starokonstantynów

I also checked the old geography book with Starykonstancin, quite often you have villages listed - but nothing similar to the highlighted name.
Starokonstantynów
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_XI/258
or
Konstantynów
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_XV_cz.2/117

Best,
Elzbieta
==
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:37 am      Post subject:
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I just want to add that 2 lines below that is Warschau (Warsaw) so it appears this manifest was from a German ship company.
Sophia
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Podjazd



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Post Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:53 am      Post subject:
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Thank you Sophia and Elzbieta!

I would never have figured it for "Neustadt" but I can see it now.

According to Wiki, there are a number of places with this name, mostly in Germany, but also two in Poland.

However, I had other reasons to think this is my great grandfather Isaak Schwartz. Why?

--His U.S. naturalization record from 1918 says he arrived from Bremen on Dec. 17, 1892. This record is for a ship from Bremen which arrived Dec. 19, 1893. And this Isaak is the right age. Also, it says his nationality is "Russian" (which would have included Ukraine then).

One of the "Neustadts" listed in Wiki is a district in Bremen. Perhaps young Isaak lived there briefly before sailing and listed it as his previous address...
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PolishLibrarian
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:15 pm      Post subject:
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The Polish words meaning Neustadt would be Nowe Miasto. Are there any towns of that name in the right part Poland? Since it's a German shipping line, it seems that they're writing city/town names in German. ~PL
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:29 pm      Post subject:
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One example, relevant to the area of Ukraine that was in Galicia at one time, is the city of Lemberg. Its name changed to Lwow, then to Lviv. So, you may not always recognize the variations in what a place was called.
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rjaremus



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Post Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:11 am      Post subject: location of Neustadt
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Podjazd - One thing you should be aware of was that there was no Poland in 1892. Poland wasn't reconstituted until 1918 after WWI. And, after WWII, the borders of Poland changed dramatically as well. These dates are very important when trying to decipher/locate a town. So prior to WWI, your Polish ancestors would be under either German, Russian, or Austro-Hungarian administration. I suspect that Neustadt could easily be the German name for a city under German administration that is now in Poland. That said, there are many, many Neustadt's in the areas around Germany. It would be most helpful to have another city. Many times a village or town was hyphenated with a larger city to help identify it. Another hint is the Issak - which looks to me to be the Russian version of this name. Keep that in mind.
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Tina Ellis



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Post Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:23 pm      Post subject: Neustadt
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I tried to send a message, but it looked like it did no work, so I'm going to try it again.

You can use http://kartenmeister.com to find German villages, towns or cities. Once you find them listed, if it is known, this will give you its Polish name, and places were Evangelical, Roman Catholic and civil records were recorded.
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:22 pm      Post subject:
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John,
All,

Isaak Schwartz arrived from Bremen on Dec. 17, 1892.
He lived in Starokonstantynów county Żytomierz, today Ukraine.

Neustadt is in the old geography book from 1880-1900:
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_VII/25
Left side, bottom:

* Neustadt 1) an der Warthe, miasto, powiat Pleszewski, obacz Nowe-Miasto 2) bei Pinne, mta, powiat Bukowski, obacz Lwowek

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powiat_pleszewski
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powiat_bukowski_%281815-1887%29

* Neustadt (niemiecki), obacz Wejherowo

* Neustadt 1) kolonia do dobra Pruszkow (Proskau) nalezaca, w powiecie opolskim 2) Neustadt, miaso, obacz Prądnik

* Neustadt, przedmiescie Frysztatu, w powiecie Frysztackim, na Szlasku austriackim, zajmuje zachodnia czesc miasta
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powiat_frysztacki_%28Czechos%C5%82owacja%29
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frysztat
Just on the border Czech and Poland

See attached today map with all places, plus Bremen, plus Starokonstantynów county Żytomierz.

Then, we have maps of The European Railways Network 1870 – 2000, see situation for 1870-1900:
http://www.notechmagazine.com/2012/06/the-european-railways-network-1870-2000.html

I also have in my archives a small easier map of international railways from 1938.

Isaak had to go westward from Starokonstantynów county Żytomierz, maybe to Lwow-Krakow, then Poznan. Could it be that Neustadt bei Pinne, aka Lwówek was his stopoveron on the way to Bremen?

Best,
Elzbieta



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