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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:04 pm      Post subject:
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Polish Librarian, Thanks for finding the marriage record. I had only had time to look in a few churches for it. I think you are correct about the Księzularz spelling for Anna's surname. I Googled it, and only came up with one, but it someone's surname:
Na poniższej stronie przezentujemy firmy powiązane z frazą radca prwny łukasz księzularz warszawa. Dane teleadresowe, opinie oraz oceny firm powiązanych ...
(In the following we present the companies associated with the phrase luke księzularz legal counsel Warsaw. Contact information, reviews and evaluation of related companies ...)

Or, if the priest did not spell it correctly, it could be Księdzularz. If you Google Księdzularz you will find people with that surname.


Last edited by Cheri Vanden Berg on Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PolishLibrarian
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:19 pm      Post subject:
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Couldn't find a baptism for Andrew so you're probably right that he was born in Poland – if that's the case they were busy going back and forth with young children in tow.

Found Anna's baptism: Anna born Dec. 5, 1912, baptized Dec. 22, 1912, parents Antoni Dzielski and Anna Księdrularz (quite clearly spelled this way), godparents Franciszek Bobak and Julia Mrówca, Thomas J. Bobak, pastor.

Later tonight I'll search for the baptism of the 2nd child named on the 1910 census Cheri found. Other projects demand my attention. Very Happy ~PL



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PolishLibrarian
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:57 pm      Post subject:
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I'm back. Had to wait around for a repairman to show up. Confused

Found Aniela (Angela) Raphaela born Oct. 22, 1909, baptized Oct. 24, 1909, daughter of Antoni Dzielski and Anna Księzularz, godparents Joseph Bulleda (??) and Ludvina Breja, Thomas Bobak, pastor. She would have been 6 months old in April 1910 when the census was taken.



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antonina1



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Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:19 am      Post subject:
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Thank you very much. Look for Andrew's birth in Poland. Is Anthony who sailed in 1939, was traveling with his wife. Where is his wife , he lived with his daughter and died in 1944 . Could she be in Poland?
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PolishLibrarian
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:48 am      Post subject:
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Antonina~ Good questions. I just thought I'd check the church records for Andrew, in case the Poland birth info was not correct. As for Andrew's birth/baptism record in Poland, as you can see if you read the first postings on this thread, the church records are not easily found for the Dzial area. The records from this area have not been microfilmed by the LDS Church and very few records from this area of Poland have been indexed on the Polish genealogy related sites. Finding the record at this point would require a trip to the church in Poland or hiring a researcher in Poland to find the paper record. My grandparents both came from towns within 20 mi. of Dzial and I was able to see their records at the churches when I visited in 2009.

When Antoni returned to the U.S. in 1926 & Apr. 1939 (he was alone both times) and on the 1940 census, he says he is married, not widowed, so possibly Anna was still in Poland. Also interesting to remember that Antoni became a U.S. citizen in 1932 (when potentially his wife was still in Poland) and the 2 living children we know about who were born in the U.S. returned when they were about 18 and before he became a citizen. I would also guess that there may have been other children born in Poland who stayed in Poland. Do you have any idea when Andrew came to the U.S.? Was it after WWII? He would have been 29 when Poland was invaded in Sept. 1939. It would be interesting if you could find obituaries for Andrew and Anna Kucharski to see if there are any living relatives who might know more of the family story. We also don't know what happened to Aniela/Angela. ~PL
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antonina1



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Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:02 am      Post subject:
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My friend with the Polish call to the Registry Office . In Poland, the birthplace of Andrew and Joanna . Andrew was born 1910 in Dział, Joanna was born 1914 in Dział. Maybe Anna was in Poland with her daughters Angela and Joanna.
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:37 am      Post subject:
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Antonina, PL & Cheri,

Perhaps Antoni's death certificate may help to clear up what happened to his wife Anna. Cook County vital records are available from the County Clerk's Office and can be obtained for a $15.00 fee plus $1.75 for the company that runs the service by going to www.cookcountygenealogy.com and following the instructions. It is an instant gratification service. As soon as the fee is paid a digital image of the certificate will be sent. Attached is the page listing Dzielski vital records. (As a side note...The early birth, marriage & death certificates have been filmed by LDS and for about a month or so when Family Search began posting such films online they were available gratis. The images were taken down at the request of the Cook County Clerk---free images cut into the county's income.)

The reason the marriage was not indexed on the PGSA site is because Cyril & Methodius parish was founded in 1891 as a Bohemian ethnic parish but later a lot of Poles were members of the parish. I went to high school with quite a few Poles who were from that parish.

The notation PL mentioned in the church marriage register reads: "Matrimonium 30 Decembris 1907 coram judice conjugaverunt." and is translated as "They were joined in marriage before a judge on December 30, 1907." It doesn't tell you anything you don't know from the civil license and certificate. However, according to Catholic Church law the marriage before the judge was invalid due to lack of canonical form. (Marriage between to Catholics had to take place in the presence of a priest and two witnesses to be recognized as valid.) As far as the Catholic Church was concerned the date they were validly married was the date of the church wedding. Technically, the church wedding was referred to as a validation of a civil marriage.

Dave



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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:37 am      Post subject:
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Dave, I appreciate what you've added. When I saw the marriage date, and then didn't find them in the PGSA marriage index, I thought maybe they had gotten married by a judge. Since Catholics didn't do that because their marriage wouldn't be recognized by the church, I tried to look at various churches in their neighborhood. I don't know that I would have been as diligent as Polish Librarian to find the February church record. I did know that priests did not marry people during the Advent/Christmas season (?). It looks that way in the church books. My mom didn't want to get married until she was 20. She turned 20 on 3 Dec 1955 and married on 7 Jan 1956. Oh, and I should add that my advice about getting the application for a marriage license, or the 30 Dec 1907 marriage record would not shown the church they married in like I thought it would...Cheri
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:23 pm      Post subject: Wedding Seasons
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Cheri,

Catholic marriages did not take place during the two penitential seasons, Lent and Advent, because the festivities of a wedding were not in keeping with the somber character of those seasons. Weddings also did not take place during the octaves of the feasts of Easter and Christmas so basically there were no weddings during parts of the months of February and April and not at all during the month of March---the exact "weddingless" dates depended on the variable dates of Ash Wednesday and Easter. It is also safe to assume that no weddings took place during the month of December. Wedding friendly time began after January 6 and ran until Ash Wednesday and then began again after the first Sunday after Easter and ran until the first Sunday of Advent. However, in rural Poland, although Church law permitted weddings for much of the year, the actual times when most weddings took place was dictated by the busy seasons on the farm. People generally married during the"down times" of farm life---January until the beginning of Lent (before spring planting started) and the months of October and November (after the autumn harvest was over). Weddings did take place in late spring and during the summer as well as in early autumn, but the vast majority of couples didn't want to marry during the times when their friends and relatives were too busy with farm work to give the wedding celebration their full attention.

Dave
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antonina1



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Post Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:00 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you for your response . Dzielska Anna was born in Zakopane . Her parents were Jacob Bachleda Księdzularz and Teresa Gąsienica. She came to the USA in 1905 . Maybe someone found her passenger lists . Is there somewhere in her date of birth ? In 1910 he was 27 years old .
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:11 pm      Post subject:
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I have looked a little for Anna's passenger list, but I haven't found it yet. I haven't seen anything that has had her birth date on it. Anna's father had two surnames? I have seen that surname combination online. I think there is at least one person in Zakopane with the Bachleda Księdzularz name. I think they must be a relative of yours because it is a rare name.
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antonina1



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Post Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:19 am      Post subject:
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Cheri,
Yes Anna name Bachleda Księdzularz. Friend in Poland called to the parish may know something. Thank you all for your help.
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antonina1



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Post Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:12 pm      Post subject:
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Unfortunately, in Poland there is of her death . And do you know when Andrew Dzielski came to the US. Maybe his mother came with him.
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taraba



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:16 pm      Post subject: Myrda family
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So far I've found a branch of my family tracing back to Dzial. Their father was Wincenty Myrda and mother was Anna Bachleda. The children were Jan (1884), Jakub (1888), Piotr (1889), Antonina (1891) and Aniela(1897). There's also another brother that I found in a passenger list as Jan Myrda traveling to his brother Jan Myrda. I don't know if that's a transcription error or if there were two brothers named John. My grandmother had talked to her father-in-law, John Myrda, about his family and wrote down years later that the siblings were John, Jacob, Peter, Stanley, Andrew, Antoinette and Angeline. Unfortunately I was called by my uncle's names and father's name a lot when I was a kid so I don't know if those are right or wrong. Most of them match up.

I found most of the family traveling to the US. Peter and Jacob travel to Chicago, IL. John, Antonina and Aniela travel to Gallitzin, PA. Eventually they also go to Chicago, IL. I don't find the second John anywhere. I'm not sure if he died or if there was a transcription error and he's really Stanley or Andrew.

Some of the siblings I found in the Dziennik Chicagoski death notice and I'm waiting for that those to see what names are listed.

I also found a brother of Vincent and his family from Dzial. Their father was Stanley Myrda and mother was Magdelena. The children which came to the US, as far as I've found, were Justina (1877), Jakub (1881), Agata (1885), Jan (1887) and Aniela (1898). It appears they traveled to Chicago, IL, Gallitzin, PA, Welland, Ont and New York.

I haven't located the name of Vincent and Stanley's father and mother yet. I think there was also another brother but he might have lived in Morawczyna. I found one person coming from there and listing a Jacob as a cousin and a mother who wasn't Magdelena or Anna. They could have been half siblings of one of these families but I haven't worked any of that out yet.

I'll edit this if I can when I get more information.
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mikefagan



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Post Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:23 pm      Post subject: Need help with another Vincent Dzielski
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Hello,

I've been researching my family history and have just started really digging into my mom's side of the family. My great grandfather was Vincent Dzielski - born abt 1879 in Galicia, died in 1911 in Chicago, IL. (I have seen plenty of info on the Vincent mentioned in this thread who died in 1959 but not for my great grandfather) Vincent was married to Mary, who was born abt 1885 in Poland and died in Ohio in 1963. Vincent and Mary had three children while still in Poland. Stanley, born 1906, Henrietta, born 1908, and my grandfather John born May 10, 1909 in Dzial.

They came to the US shortly after - I think Vincent came to the US in 1909 and the rest of the family in 1910. They had a brief stint in Chicago before moving to Ohio. I'd be so thankful for some help.

Mike
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