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Raphael_Jones



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Replies: 17

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:22 pm      Post subject: Illigitimate Birth Joseph Czaja
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I was researching my grandmothers family, and came across something interesting. The person I was researching, their name was Joseph Czaja. (In Polish- Jozef Czaja.) He was born on January 19, 1880 in Ludzmierz, Poland. He was baptised on February 1, 1880. I contacted the church and the information I was given was: Mother- Anna Czaja, who is the daughter of Jan Czaja and Regina Cebulska. Father: Unknown. I was surprised to see an illegitimate birth. What does this mean?
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jamestelkowski



Joined: 29 Dec 2015
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:19 pm      Post subject:
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Sorry, I don't know about your case, but I'm 1/2 German 1/2 Polish, and on my German side, we had an illegitimate birth as well. We've been trying to figure out, who the father could be, because rumor is that he was descended from German royalty, like many other illegitimate births.
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:44 pm      Post subject:
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Raphael, I am not sure what is so puzzling about it. It was an illegitimate birth. It was not uncommon. In fact, if you look at the columnar format of baptism records, there is a column for "legitimate / illegitimate" which means that the fact of whether or not a baby's parents were married was an ordinary question that was asked.
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Raphael_Jones



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:27 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Raphael, I am not sure what is so puzzling about it. It was an illegitimate birth. It was not uncommon. In fact, if you look at the columnar format of baptism records, there is a column for "legitimate / illegitimate" which means that the fact of whether or not a baby's parents were married was an ordinary question that was asked.


Thank you for telling me. Do you know if there is any way to find out who the father is?
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:34 pm      Post subject:
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Raphael, there is always the possibility that the parents did marry, but later than the birth of Jozef. This sort of thing did happen. So if you find a marriage record for Anna Czaja later than January 1880, there is a chance that her husband could have been Jozef's father. However, you could not prove it. Also, see what later records you can find for Jozef himself, and see if a father's name is ever given there (for example, if Jozef married). I think the chances are slim of ever knowing for certain. Perhaps someone else can add their thoughts...
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Raphael_Jones



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:46 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Raphael, there is always the possibility that the parents did marry, but later than the birth of Jozef. This sort of thing did happen. So if you find a marriage record for Anna Czaja later than January 1880, there is a chance that her husband could have been Jozef's father. However, you could not prove it. Also, see what later records you can find for Jozef himself, and see if a father's name is ever given there (for example, if Jozef married). I think the chances are slim of ever knowing for certain. Perhaps someone else can add their thoughts...


Thank you Sophia. He did immigrate to Chicago after, and on his immigration record there is no information about his father. Happy New year.
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dgawell



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:28 am      Post subject: births
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It is my understanding that the designation really means "no husband". Everyone in the village might have known who the father was, but the priest was instructed to follow that rule. Like someone else said, the woman might have married later but that wouldn't be on the birth record.

One sad thing I noted in a my grandparents' village in about 1850 was that about half the births were illegitimage. Makes me wonder if a group of soldiers visited the town?
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Raphael_Jones



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:38 pm      Post subject: Re: births
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dgawell wrote:
It is my understanding that the designation really means "no husband". Everyone in the village might have known who the father was, but the priest was instructed to follow that rule. Like someone else said, the woman might have married later but that wouldn't be on the birth record.

One sad thing I noted in a my grandparents' village in about 1850 was that about half the births were illegitimage. Makes me wonder if a group of soldiers visited the town?


That's a really good point, but there were no wars Poland was involved in, during 1880.
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dgawell



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Post Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:23 am      Post subject:
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Just speculation. This was right after serf emancipation. I wonder if that had anything to do with it in 1850?
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heleninnj
PolishOrigins Patron


Joined: 19 Feb 2016
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:26 pm      Post subject:
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Ive come across a similar situation with my paternal grandfather. No father is mentioned on his birth certificate and it is noted as an "unwed" birth. Interestingly, I came across another birth certificate for the same woman, Pelke HARZ or HERZ. It appears she had been married and had had another child before my grandfather. So now I'm wondering where my last name came from as it doesn't appear on any birth certificates. Is it possible for 2 Pelke Harz to be living in nearby towns? This came as a total shock to me!
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