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JacekRoszakKonin



Joined: 06 May 2010
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Post Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:31 pm      Post subject:
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To what exacly are you refering to? Things like that were happening in greater poland for example, but I think that this was common in whole Poland. Surname Roszak had few origins. One is that I described previously. Second is that it came from first name Rościsław - Rostislav earlyer, Rosti - to grow, slav - glory.
If you were asking about priests changing names - it was happening all the time as far as i know. In my family there was my gr- gr- grandfather KOWALEWSKI - (it comes from word - blacksmith). He had several sons - so priest gave a few of them name after their faher, and one or two of them was KOWALSKI since then.
My mothers sister has a housband whos last name is Gouden, but few of his brothers are Gołden - he was born in 1947! His father if I remember correctly was called Gałen. I found his and his fathers birth record - and this is all thuth. The funny part is that his grandfather was Bielecki but he changed his last name when he runned from - (I don't know how to write it in english) - military service ? He was serving in Rusia military ?
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Henryk
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Post Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:52 am      Post subject:
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Eastern Slav names consist of the first name, the patronymic name and the surname. The patronymic name is based on the father's first name. The surname remains constant through the generations. Sons and daughters would have the same patronymic derived from their father's first name.
But I am not aware of any usage of patronymics in Polish and other Western Slav names.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Are you saying that in parts of Poland patronymics were used?
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JacekRoszakKonin



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Post Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:34 pm      Post subject:
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Yes it was. As far as I know it was common back then. We've borrowed thta "tradition" from eastern Slav. My example was from first half of 18 century - it happened in the middle of greater poland.
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melaniemiguel



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:23 am      Post subject: Re: Article: How Surnames Came Into Being in Poland
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Henryk wrote:
This is a very interesting article. It includes information I hadn't seen in other articles on the topic.
There is one bit of information in the article which is incorrect.
Quote:
Peasants still did not have surnames until the partitions; until the turn of the 19th century they had only first names and sometimes nicknames.

I have reviewed the LDS records of my family parish, Sokolina, Kielce. The earliest records are: index of surnames, marriages, 1706. The index is comprised of surnames. As the parish is a rural one, the majority of the names are bound to be of peasants. In later indexes, all prior to 1772, the surnames of my paternal and maternal ancestors appear. My ancestors were peasants.
There is no doubt that peasants received surnames prior to the 19th century. They received them in the 17th century, or perhaps, earlier.


Hello! I just discovered this forum this morning while searching Sokolina, Kielce. The above quote looked as if it could have been written by me Smile My grandfather, Jan Jarkiewicz was born in Charbinowice, and his brother, Kaspar was born in Sokolina (they are quite close together) I found the Church they must have belonged to, St. Michael the Archangel and will write there soon for records. Unfortunately the LDS records to not go far enough for me: 1889 - 1900's. I wondered what the surname is of the person who wrote the above.

Thank you,
Melanie

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Ute
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:05 pm      Post subject: Re: Article: How Surnames Came Into Being in Poland
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Henryk wrote:
This is a very interesting article. It includes information I hadn't seen in other articles on the topic.
There is one bit of information in the article which is incorrect.
Quote:
Peasants still did not have surnames until the partitions; until the turn of the 19th century they had only first names and sometimes nicknames.

I have reviewed the LDS records of my family parish, Sokolina, Kielce. The earliest records are: index of surnames, marriages, 1706. The index is comprised of surnames. As the parish is a rural one, the majority of the names are bound to be of peasants. In later indexes, all prior to 1772, the surnames of my paternal and maternal ancestors appear. My ancestors were peasants.
There is no doubt that peasants received surnames prior to the 19th century. They received them in the 17th century, or perhaps, earlier.


I just read two articles on this topic that I would like to share with you. They are based on studies by Frances Pine who has conducted research in the Podhale, the Polish highlands. In her article “Naming the House and Naming the Land: Kinship and Social Groups in Highland Poland” she writes: … When I first began research in 1977, the village of Pyzówka consisted of about 150 houses. … Although surnames were registered in council and parish records and passed at marriage from husband to wife and thereafter to their children, it was soon apparent to me that the villagers themselves rarely used these in reference or address. Surnames were referred to as “the way you write yourself” (jak sie pisze), in clear reference to the demands of state and church bureaucracies. In normal conversation people were identified "as they are spoken to" (jak sie mowi do niego/niej), or in terms of "from whom they come" (od kogo oni sa), expressions which referred to their housename (przydomek). The housename indicates kinship and confers social identity, and this is the name by which a person is known to all other villagers.”
Source: Pine, Frances (1996), Naming the House and Naming the Land: Kinship and Social Groups in Highland Poland, Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute, v. 2, September 1996, pp. 443-459.

In another article, "Incorporation and Exclusion in the Podhale", she writes “Villagers know each other by their pszydomki, the name of the house, which extends to all its members whether by birth (through either mother or father), by adoption or fostering, by marriage, or by service. Only local people know each others' house names, and this local knowledge allows them to place and situate each other within a shared world and to effectively exclude outsiders. The state and the church, on the other hand, imposed a bureaucratic system of surnames that villagers use in their dealings with official bodies. Thus, even in the naming of persons, an inside and outside system exists."

Source: Pine, Frances (1999), Incorporation and Exclusion in the Podhale, in Lilies of the Field. Marginal People Who Live for the Moment, edited by Sophie Day, Evthymios Papataxiarchis, and Michael Stewart, Crestview Press, 1999, pp. 45-60.
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Staripolak64
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:00 am      Post subject:
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Much good information, but remember that Russia was still in charge of large parts of Poland in the 19th century. The reforms of Tsar Alexander (and some others), including the "freeing of the serfs" affected names all over the Russian empire, including Poland. Educational reforms in the mid-19th century also had effects upon surnames. Some times priests were not fluent in either Russian or Polish, so what they wrote down is very often not accurate. Regional dialects and customs varied. "Illiterate" meant, to the Russians, that the witnesses and/or declarents did not read or write in Russian, that is all. It was not intended as any sort of insult. Long and complex historical process, which changed frequently.

Very often, as a translator, I have been asked if a particular record is "accurate" or not. From bitter experience, I now tell everyone who asks, "Accuracy as a concept is of no use here, the term just does not apply. I can only tell you that this is what the document says."

A long time ago, my old sociology professor told us that in all our research, particularly in genealogy, we should not be "temprocentric," because times, borders, nationalities, religions, and all other human endeavors change.
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Zenon
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:53 am      Post subject: Re: Article: How Surnames Came Into Being in Poland
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melanie wrote:
Henryk wrote:
This is a very interesting article. It includes information I hadn't seen in other articles on the topic.
There is one bit of information in the article which is incorrect.
Quote:
Peasants still did not have surnames until the partitions; until the turn of the 19th century they had only first names and sometimes nicknames.

I have reviewed the LDS records of my family parish, Sokolina, Kielce. The earliest records are: index of surnames, marriages, 1706. The index is comprised of surnames. As the parish is a rural one, the majority of the names are bound to be of peasants. In later indexes, all prior to 1772, the surnames of my paternal and maternal ancestors appear. My ancestors were peasants.
There is no doubt that peasants received surnames prior to the 19th century. They received them in the 17th century, or perhaps, earlier.


Hello! I just discovered this forum this morning while searching Sokolina, Kielce. The above quote looked as if it could have been written by me Smile My grandfather, Jan Jarkiewicz was born in Charbinowice, and his brother, Kaspar was born in Sokolina (they are quite close together) I found the Church they must have belonged to, St. Michael the Archangel and will write there soon for records. Unfortunately the LDS records to not go far enough for me: 1889 - 1900's. I wondered what the surname is of the person who wrote the above.

Thank you,
Melanie


Melanie,

If you didn't do it so far try to contact Henryk, who wrote this comment about Sokolina, directly via private message. Here you will find his personal page: http://polishorigins.com/henryk .
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Zenon
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:23 am      Post subject:
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Staripolak64 wrote:
Very often, as a translator, I have been asked if a particular record is "accurate" or not. From bitter experience, I now tell everyone who asks, "Accuracy as a concept is of no use here, the term just does not apply. I can only tell you that this is what the document says."

A long time ago, my old sociology professor told us that in all our research, particularly in genealogy, we should not be "temprocentric," because times, borders, nationalities, religions, and all other human endeavors change.


Nowadays, especially in the broadly understood western culture, we are used to think that official statements, documents are pretty accurate. In most cases this is true. But hundred or more years ago it wasn't treated so seriously. People just didn't care so much about such "details". They didn't live in a hurry, they not always had calendars or clocks. I would say that concept of precision, accuracy had back then "much greater margin of tolerance".

Add to this the fact that people relied more often on their unreliable memories when they were providing details about their lives (for example when christening their children in church or talking with clerk at Ellis Island) not on officially issued and confirmed by notary public, documents. Not mentioning the fact that in some case people wanted to hide for many reasons true about their real age or origin. This often couldn't be verified.

How many times have you discovered that the date of birth of your grandparents differed by a few years in ship manifest from the original baptism record found later in parish church? And how many versions of "your" surname do you have in your family tree Smile Question

So we should keep in mind while reading our ancestors documents that this is not necessary the most specific, precise information, and we should always compare it, verify, with primary sources which should be the closest to the true.
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swbtmis



Joined: 14 Feb 2010
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:12 am      Post subject:
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what about names in he GORAL? would they follow similar patterns as other areas of early POLAND?
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Jednoralski
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:58 pm      Post subject:
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What about the Surname, 'Jednoralski' in the Zalno area of Poland?
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BobK
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:32 pm      Post subject:
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Zenon wrote:
How many times have you discovered that the date of birth of your grandparents differed by a few years in ship manifest from the original baptism record found later in parish church? And how many versions of "your" surname do you have in your family tree Smile Question



All my German ancestors were born in various areas of Poland, so I assume they were influenced similarly.

My grandmother's oldest brother, remained in Poland and had 11 children and he used 3 different surnames at various times. Eggert, Ilgert & Elgert. It makes my genalogy chart look odd. Shocked
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Mary Pate



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
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Location: Overland Park, KS

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:31 am      Post subject:
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I have researched many parish records through LDS films in the old Poznan Province and in eastern Galicia. Particularly in Kcynia (Exin. under German control(old Poznan Province), before 1800, I found few surnames; therefore. could not identify many of my ancestors with certainty. Possibly, it was only nobility that had surnames there earlier. Strangely, to me, there were more surnames earlier in the Galicia area under Austrian control.
Mary
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ossnhughie
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:42 pm      Post subject: Surnames amongst nobility
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I have a mixed class backround in my Polish heritage. My maternal Grandfather's fathers side (Michalkiewicz, Swirkowska, Narkiewicz, Subotowicz and Niewiadomski and Maximowicz) were of peasant/farmer origin. His mother Weronika Szymkiewicz was (from what I have found so far, her ancestry has been all members of the szlachta from Troki, Wilkomierz and Kowno countries (or is it deaneries?).
I have heard surnames were first found among the nobility. Is this the case?

Hugh

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Felicia



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
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Location: Chicago, Illinois

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:43 pm      Post subject:
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My maiden name is Podwojski. From what I read in my book about Polish surnames, it is archaic and comes from the office of a minor church official. If that is true, why the "ski" at the end. Was that just tacked on at some point and if so, what would the actual office have been called? Podwoj? I also read on one site that the first use of the name appears in the medieval period I think. From all that I have read here, it looks like my ancestor search could be a real headache indeed!

Felicia
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rosied51



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Post Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:42 pm      Post subject: Torun or Koscierzyna
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On my gr grandparents info are the names of these two towns, and I am wondering if anyone can tell me anything about them, the families related are Stencel and Gadomski.
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