Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:22 pm
Post subject: Adopted children?
Hi,
I have finished viewing all LDS microfilms covering Raciazek, Nieszawa, Aleksandrow Kujawski and Ciechocinek and was not able to find the death record for two of my great-grandfather's brothers. They were born in 1847 and 1851, in Nieszawa, but the family moved around the places mentioned above.
On their father's death record (1852) it mentions only their mother and their youngest brother (my great-grandfather) as the surviving members of the family (pozostawil po sobie w dziala zone Paulina i syna Maryana).
Would it be possible their deaths were not recorded in church books?
Could they have been adopted by other family and then carried a new surname?
Gilberto
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brianminnie
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Replies: 51
Location: California, USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:37 pm
Post subject:
Gilberto,
I don't have an answer to your question, but the subject line of your post caught my attention. I recently received information from a cousin that my great-grandfather may have been 'an orphan' and 'adopted' as a child in Poland. This came as a surprise to me and others in my family and may partially explain why I've run into a brick wall researching his ancestry.
I'm curious to learn what tips others may provide for researching such a scenario. I have not yet been able to gain access to the church records for my great-grandfather's parish, but I'm thinking some clues may lie there - but will still be very difficult if his surname was different at birth.
Brian
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:57 pm
Post subject:
Hey Gilberto!
Have you come across any alternative surnames for your family? I was having a terrible time finding anyone from my Rebizant family in the village church books, but luckily I was able to find a few entries that listed my family's house number 89. So I started entering church records into a spreadsheet for all births in house 89, regardless of surname. To my surprise, I discovered that my family also used a totally different surname, Lewkowicz, and there was no pattern to what surname was used. Sometimes a child would be born and the father's surname was Teodor Rebizant and for the next child the father was Teodor Lewkowicz - mother's name was the same in both records. This happened so often that I have no doubt that my family was using both surnames. By the 1860's however, the Lewkowicz surname disappeared and everyone was using Rebizant.
I have not been able to find records that go back further than the later 1770's, so I have no insight yet into this new brick wall, except that I know that many families in the area used nicknames.
Perhaps something similar happened with your family name?
Brian,
Your story reminded me of a thread I posted about Epidemics in the Book Discussion forum for the book “The Nation in the Village”
The book mentions a large Cholera outbreak in 1855 that produced a population of orphans who wandered around, too young to know their names or birthplaces.
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=980
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 599
Location: GermanyBack to top |
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:45 am
Post subject:
| Quote: | Shellie wrote:
Hey Gilberto!
Have you come across any alternative surnames for your family? I was having a terrible time finding anyone from my Rebizant family in the village church books, but luckily I was able to find a few entries that listed my family's house number 89. So I started entering church records into a spreadsheet for all births in house 89, regardless of surname. To my surprise, I discovered that my family also used a totally different surname, Lewkowicz, and there was no pattern to what surname was used. Sometimes a child would be born and the father's surname was Teodor Rebizant and for the next child the father was Teodor Lewkowicz - mother's name was the same in both records. This happened so often that I have no doubt that my family was using both surnames. By the 1860's however, the Lewkowicz surname disappeared and everyone was using Rebizant.
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Shellie,
Among my Długopole ancestors were two families, Bryjak and Kowalkowski, who had "nicknames" under which they were known within the village: My great-grandmother's father Jozef Bryjak went by "Gabryś", my great-grandmother's second husband Jozef Kowalkowski went by "Pankocyn". There were (and probably still are) many Bryjak and Kowalkowski families in Długopole, and I guess the "nicknames" were used by the villagers to distinguish one Bryjak and Kowalkowski family from the other. I don't know who or what these names referred to and how they came to be. The study by Frances Pine "Naming the house and naming the land: Kinship and Social Groups in Highland Poland" may shed some light on this subject. Here are some excerpts:
"When I first began research in 1977, the village of Pyzówka consisted of about 150 houses.(FN5) Although surnames were registered in council and parish records and passed at marriage from husband to wife and thereafter to their children, it was soon apparent to me that the villagers themselves rarely used these in reference or address. Surnames were referred to as 'the way you write yourself (jak sie pisze), in clear reference to the demands of state and church bureaucracies. In normal conversation people were identified "as they are spoken to" (jak sie mowi do niego/niej), or in terms of "from whom they come" (od kogo oni sa), expressions which referred to their housename (przydomek). The housename indicates kinship and confers social identity, and this is the name by which a person is known to all other villagers."
"In a way, it is not the people who accumulate their land, but the house and the land which can be seen as recruiting their people. In so far as there is a long genealogical memory, it is a genealogy of house and land, not of people. The naming of physical space is characteristic of the Górale, and reflects the formation of social groups, the boundaries of kinship and affinity, and the basis for the formation and perpetuation of social and economic stratification within the village. "Where do you come from, whom do you belong to, and what belongs to you and yours?" These are the key questions of Górale identity, and their answers are encompassed by house identity."
"The standard Polish word for house is dom. Górale refer to large, modern houses, particularly those in towns or cities, as dom. They also use dom to refer to housename, saying for instance "To jest Zoska, z domu Bigosa" (That is Zoska, from the house of Bigos). For the actual building in which they live, however, they usually use chalupa, which means hut or, more poetically, cottage."
Source: Pine, Frances: Naming the House and Naming the Land: Kinship and Social Groups in Highland Poland: The Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute, Vol. 2, No. 3 (Sep., 1996), pp. 443-459.
Web address: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3034897
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:19 am
Post subject:
| Shellie wrote: | Hey Gilberto!
Have you come across any alternative surnames for your family? I was having a terrible time finding anyone from my Rebizant family in the village church books, but luckily I was able to find a few entries that listed my family's house number 89. So I started entering church records into a spreadsheet for all births in house 89, regardless of surname.
I have not been able to find records that go back further than the later 1770's, so I have no insight yet into this new brick wall, except that I know that many families in the area used nicknames.
Perhaps something similar happened with your family name?
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Thank you all for your thoughts.
All the records before and after theirs, show family members as Magrowski. Even so, I was careful when I came across a similar spelling (say, Magierski or Magierowicz) to see if parents' names matched. They didn't.
Out of all the records I found, only two mentioned the number of the house, so that information was not of a big help.
One of those brothers was older than my great-grandfather; the other one was younger. It makes no sense to me why their mother would "give" them to be adopted and kept the "middle" child with her, but who knows? Also, I was not able to find her death record, either (Paulina Magrowski, nee Skalski), though it happened in Nieszawa, between 1853 and 1874 (info taken from great-grandfather marriage record, in 1874). The cause of death of her husband was "cholera" (1852, Nieszawa).
I think I will ask AP Torun a search: maybe they have books that were not microfilmed by LDS.
Gilberto
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HenrykPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Replies: 314
Location: London ON, CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:35 am
Post subject:
My maternal grandfather's ancesters lived in the same village back to the 1600s. Yet I have found birth records for some, but no death records. I have found marrige records stating a birth in that village, but no birth record. My paternal grandfather's ancesters lived in various villages in the same parish; records are also missing for them. There have been mis-spellings, but no spelling error that can explain it. A mystery.
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HenrykPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Replies: 314
Location: London ON, CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:18 pm
Post subject:
Try http://www.ksiegi-parafialne.pl/
For my parish, I found information in addition that in the LDS records. For example, marriage information from the early 1900's.
Also I found it useful to also review the data common with the LDS records. This enabled me to find data I had overlooked, data I transcribed or read incorrectly, and data which I forgot to incorporate in my family tree. Unfortunately there are also transcription errors in the ksegi data.
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:52 am
Post subject:
Henryk,
I have tried several times to access it, but no luck.
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HenrykPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Replies: 314
Location: London ON, CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:00 pm
Post subject:
The site links to http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/
but found nothing useful there.
Using google search with nieszawa metrykalnych
===I found on http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.php
Baza danych PRADZIAD miejscowość: Nieszawa
województwo: włocławskie województwo (od 1999 r.): kujawsko-pomorskie
wyznanie/obrządek: rzymskokatolickie
rodzaj aktu: zgony
daty: 1616-1808, 1826, 1829-1833, 1835-1836, 1838-1841, 1844, 1846, 1851-1860, 1862-1865, 1867-1871, 1874-1907
miejsce przechowywania: Archiwum Państwowe w Toruniu Oddział we Włocławku
87-800 Włocławek, ul. Skorupki 4
tel: (54) 232-28-57 fax: 232-28-57 email: [email protected]
===Also
Baza danych PRADZIAD miejscowość: Nieszawa
województwo: włocławskie województwo(od 1999 r.): kujawsko-pomorskie
wyznanie/obrządek: rzymskokatolickie
rodzaj aktu: zgony daty: 1616-1869
miejsce przechowywania: Archiwum Diecezjalne we Włocławku
87-800 Włocławek, ul. Gdańska 2/4
tel: (54) 231-11-12 email: [email protected]
===Also http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/POLAND-ROOTS/2004-07/1090465367
" I recently read a film I ordered from LDS. The film was supposed to be the civil records
of the parish Kos~cielna Wies~, There is a problem with this film.
These records include many parishes, villages, and gmina besides
Kos~cielna Wies~. Here is a list of some of the parishes which had records on this film.
Nieszawa, ..."
===I only looked at about 20 google results. There may be more there.
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:40 pm
Post subject:
Henryk,
Thank you so very much for your help. I have noticed that the frame of time covered by the AP and the AD are just the same. However, the LDS films I have viewed state the church books were kept in Wloclawek AD. I have just sent a message to Wloclawek AP to see if they can find my great-grandfather's brothers in their books. If not, then I will order that film from Koscielna Wies.
Gilberto
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MDuplagaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Replies: 103
Back to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:16 am
Post subject: Adopted Children?
Hello Everyone,
#1--In my family I had heard of a Great Aunt in Poland who was sent to live with her Aunt during childhood. It was written in a letter that she had been adopted by her Aunt. In recent research it was discovered that My great Aunt was "Illigitimate"--therefore she carried the "Maiden Name" of her mother, as there was no father listed on the Birth certificate. My Great grandmother had married and had other children, who were 1/2 siblings to my Great Aunt. These children carried their father's name. I have no idea if my Great Aunt was ever legally adopted or not. Perhaps people were told that she was 'adopted' and that is the reason she had a different name? Who Knows?
Before I advanced in my research, I had a difficult time finding a Passenger list for this Great Aunt, as I was looking under an incorrect surname.
My point is that when you are searching for any adopted children-you might try looking under the Mother's maiden name as a possibility.
#2 I recieve a Newspaper named "News of Polonia". The April 2012 Issue had a lengthy and interesting article. "Polish Children kidnapped by the Nazi Government during WWII" written by Professor Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski. Perhaps you can find access to the article at www.pogonowski.com
The article is about the "German race improvement" plan. He states that 200,000 blond Polish
children were kidnapped from Polish families. Postwar 25,000 of these children were found.
The timeline for this event is much later than the time period that most of us are researching.
This article is worth reading -but mostly it opens up a possibility that we would probably never concieve on our own, and it could explain why some people are not able to be located.
MaryAnne
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