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mous1123



Joined: 30 Mar 2017
Replies: 22
Location: garfield heights ohio

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:14 pm      Post subject: trying to find my grandmother
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My grandmother was supposed to be born in Poland..Although her last name is German..I cannot find any records for her other than census in the US. Her
full name as far as I know is
Pauline Winkel
Born 1885?
Never learned English spoke only polish
Married Roman Prrzewdziekowski aka prezenkowski..aka preziinkowski..aka przynowski
in ohio those are the spellings on the census and his naturalization papers
she never became a
US citizen
Have searched as many websites as I can except for polish which I do not speak or read.
Any help to find a site I could use that may be helpful
Thanks
Mickey

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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:57 pm      Post subject: Re: trying to find my grandmother
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mous1123 wrote:
My grandmother was supposed to be born in Poland..Although her last name is German..I cannot find any records for her other than census in the US. Her
full name as far as I know is
Pauline Winkel
Born 1885?
Never learned English spoke only polish
Married Roman Prrzewdziekowski aka prezenkowski..aka preziinkowski..aka przynowski
in ohio those are the spellings on the census and his naturalization papers
she never became a
US citizen
Have searched as many websites as I can except for polish which I do not speak or read.
Any help to find a site I could use that may be helpful
Thanks
Mickey


Mickey,
maybe this one:
http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=71wa&rid=B&search_lastname=winkel&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1879&to_date=1879&exac=1

Gilberto
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mous1123



Joined: 30 Mar 2017
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Location: garfield heights ohio

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:28 pm      Post subject: grandmother winkel
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i am going to check this out...i know my grandfather was born in 1880 maybe she was the elder of the 2
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:36 pm      Post subject: Re: grandmother winkel
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mous1123 wrote:
i am going to check this out...i know my grandfather was born in 1880 maybe she was the elder of the 2


In Family Search I found her as Pelagia and husband as Roman Brzezinkowski, in Ohio. Marriage of a son.

Gilberto
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BobK
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:04 pm      Post subject: Re: trying to find my grandmother
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mous1123 wrote:
My grandmother was supposed to be born in Poland..Although her last name is German..


Many Germans were from Poland. There are quite a few Pauline Winkel's via Familysearch.org,

Was she married here in the USA? what state. Try to find any records. It's possible that her name was spelled
phonetically when she gave it to others, so look for variations of spelling.
Have you tried http://stevemorse.org/ to search Ellis Island? It has 'wildcard' & phonetic searches.

There are two large "Germans from Russia" groups (SGGEE.ORG & AHSGR.ORG) that could have information.
that is helpful to you.
(Poland was administered by Russia from around 1800 to after WWI, so you may find documents saying
she came from "Russia")

You need to find the village she emigrated from, or where she was born if you want to search for records.
There are many records of, Polish, German, Jewish, etc in online Polish databases.. BUT
you need to find her birth village in order to look in church records. Even the area of Poland will help.

My own German ancestors were born in Poland, spoke German, have documents in Russian, Polish, German or Latin! ..

Bob
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:02 pm      Post subject: Re: grandmother winkel
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mous1123 wrote:
i am going to check this out...i know my grandfather was born in 1880 maybe she was the elder of the 2


Mickey,

According to the attached birth records of her son Edmund and an unnamed male child, born in 1904 and 1906 respectively, she would have been born c. 1885. Her given name on both birth records is Pelagia which some immigrant women changed to Pauline and others to Pearl in the USA. Looking for records in Poland it would be a safe bet to use Pelagia as her given name.

A possible source to learn where she was born in Poland could be her church marriage record. Often priests would enter the place where the bride and the groom were baptized in Poland as part of the marriage data. Two pieces of advice---1. Catholic marriages usually took place in the parish of the bride; and 2. They may have been living in the same parish where they were married when the two children were born. I was not able to locate the street mentioned in the birth records so I can't offer any help regarding possible church locations. When you do locate the parish where they were married be sure to ask for either a photocopy or a transcription of the actual entry in the marriage register. A simple certificate would not contain info regarding the place here they were baptized.
Currently the largest number of people in Poland with the surname Winkel (and the variant Winkiel) reside in Wiekopolskie near Gniezno. It is a very safe bet that she was born in Western Poland, which at the time was under German/Prussian rule.

Wishing you success,

Dave



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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:30 pm      Post subject:
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Mickey,
Have you seen Pelagia/Pauline in every census year available? I see that in 1910 Roman (age twenty-eight) and Pelagia (25) were married for 6 years. She had had 4 children, 3 were still living (Edward, Joseph, Frank). It says that Roman was from the Russian partition of Poland, and Pelagia from the German partition of Poland. It says Roman immigrated in 1901, and Pelagia in 1902. Dates aren't always consistent in the census...

Cheri


Last edited by Cheri Vanden Berg on Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:42 pm      Post subject:
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Their address in 1910 was 3933 East 64th Street S.E.
Cleveland, Ward 17
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:45 pm      Post subject:
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Mickey,
This one might be your grandmother - there was a Pelagia Winkiel who arrived at the Port of Baltimore Dec 4, 1901. She was 18. She was going to her sister in Passaic (?) New Jersey. I can't quite make out what must be her sister's married surname. I believe there is also a last residence for Pelagia, but I'm not sure what that is either. This manifest can be seen at Family Search https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89S8-KLY5?mode=g&i=74&cc=2018318
I agree with Dave that the most reliable place to find out where your grandmother was born would be in church records. I have been told that if they aren't in the marriage record book from the church, the church would have where they were baptized in the Marriage Banns (I have no experience with the Marriage Banns records).

Cheri
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mous1123



Joined: 30 Mar 2017
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Location: garfield heights ohio

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:14 am      Post subject: thank you
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You all have made my day Of course I see 2 new spellings of my grandpas last name...No wonder I couldn't find anything.. That is my grandmother and those are my 2 uncles birth records
I hope this doesn't double post for help...I must be doing something wrong i don't want to double post things

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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:18 am      Post subject:
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Hi Cheri,
I agree with you that this Pelagia was going to Passaic, New Jersey. I read her sister's surname as Szczech. As for the last residence, if you look at lines 15, 16, 17 and 18 (with Pelagia being on line 17), after each town is an abbreviation for province and I interpret those as: 15 = Westpreussen, 16 = Westfalian and 18 = Posen. Line 17 is not easy to read, but of all the possible Prussian provinces, it still looks closest to Posen, to me. The town name might be Bielice, but the first letter was overwritten and I am uncertain of it.
Best,
Sophia
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:44 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
Hi Cheri,
I agree with you that this Pelagia was going to Passaic, New Jersey. I read her sister's surname as Szczech. As for the last residence, if you look at lines 15, 16, 17 and 18 (with Pelagia being on line 17), after each town is an abbreviation for province and I interpret those as: 15 = Westpreussen, 16 = Westfalian and 18 = Posen. Line 17 is not easy to read, but of all the possible Prussian provinces, it still looks closest to Posen, to me. The town name might be Bielice, but the first letter was overwritten and I am uncertain of it.
Best,
Sophia


Sophia,
I don't think it was overwritten: it is the same capital letter two lines above (rigth above Cincinatti). Can you read it?

Gilberto
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:07 am      Post subject:
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Hi Gilberto,
The word above Cincinnati two lines above Pelagia looks to me like "Balti" as an abbreviated form of Baltimore, Maryland.
You have a good eye!
Best,
Sophia
P.S. And now I am sure it is Balti for Baltimore, by looking all the way at the right hand side of the page where the address was rewritten in different handwriting.
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:52 am      Post subject:
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Sophia and Gilberto,
I would never have guessed someone would write a B like that! Now I see that the B in Bronislawa (line2) and the B in Barbara (line 5) are also written like that.

I wish they would have written the first name of Pelagia's Szczech sister (IF this is the correct Pelagia Winkiel/Winkel). I can't make out her sister's first initial either. Mickey, do you know of any siblings of Pauline? It can help to research collateral lines for answers, though once again, Pelagia and Roman's marriage record should hopefully have answers for you if you can track it down.

Mickey, In case you don't have this, I believe this must be your grandmother's gravestone:
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=prezinkowska&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=146449876&df=all&

Cheri

P.S. I'm not sure what you meant about double posting. This is your "forum" and you can comment or add questions.
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:52 am      Post subject:
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Hi Cheri,
As for the first initial of the sister's name on Pelagia's manifest, at first I thought it was an "I" but now I see it possibly as an "A." Look at passengers Anna (line 15) and Anton (line 22) for a similar looking first letter.
Best,
Sophia
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