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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Joined: 09 Nov 2012
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:52 pm      Post subject:
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Adding to memories: a list of names from Markowa gathered by my Aunt in 1990 - she was 66, but very ill, could not remember much, it took her weeks to write it upon my request. She was financial accountant, her writings have been always neat.

Szpytma, Kud, Gorzkowicz - I have names, but no single explanation if and how those names are related to my grand grand parents.

Elzbieta



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sirdan
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Joined: 07 Mar 2012
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:48 pm      Post subject:
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Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:
Sirdan you are correct asking. I cannot discriminate between Annae (my Mom's certificate) and Mariae (her younger sister). The names you gave for Kielar side fit the whole record I had ! Mariae non Annae.
Thats awsome something going on in that matter. We have some matches. But still not quite understand You. How might You not discariminate record of your mum and her sister? They have same parents, or not?

Quote:
I did not have any name for Kluz side, and am wholeheartedly indebted for that record. I cannot believe I have something.
Could you share those records with me?
Sure i can share records related to Your family. Should i post it here or e-mail you or send You a link for download?

Quote:
Does it mean we have somme common ancestry?
Still none in common i m afraid, maybe something will occure in future.

Quote:
Szpytma, Kud, Gorzkowicz - I have names, but no single explanation if and how those names are related to my grand grand parents.
Must be some close relatives to Your Aunt, may be far relatives to You.
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Joined: 09 Nov 2012
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:02 pm      Post subject:
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How might You not discariminate record of your mum and her sister? They have same parents, or not?

Yes, the same parents, but on my Mom certificate it is written Annae Klus, on my Aunt it is Maria Kluz. Typo?

I saw strange things on birth records: the same name re-used in case the first child holding it passed away, as well as cases when the middle name was used all the time, and you discover something else on the grave, and death certificate.

Concerning records, I would appreciate a link for download. Thanks in advance.

BTW, how do you post individual email to someone from PO forum?

Elzbieta
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:24 pm      Post subject:
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I have sent You links in private message. Check again records if they really concerns your family.

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[quote="Elzbieta Porteneuve"]
Quote:

How might You not discariminate record of your mum and her sister? They have same parents, or not?

Yes, the same parents, but on my Mom certificate it is written Annae Klus, on my Aunt it is Maria Kluz. Typo?
Sometimes, when wife died, the husband was taking for wife her sister, just to make a property (field and house) in one piece. It might be a mistake of priest too, who wrote middle name instead first name. It needs more research.
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:09 pm      Post subject:
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Re: Annae or Mariae ... or Marianna ?

On the 1894.january page (twins, parents written twice) seen with Photoshop, I see twice the first name as Marianna Kluz, filia Iohannes Kluz and Marianna Szylar. On the 1898.july page it is Maria. I am happy with that.

I noted additional names: for child Iohannes, the witness is Mathias Kluz and Catharina, wife; for Sophia the witness is Michael Szpytma or Spytma?) and Catharine, wife.

I noted "hortulani" written in many places, which is "gardener" I guess.

While sometimes "the husband was taking for wife her sister", it does not apply here: Jozef Kielar was the same person in 1919 (my Mom) and in 1924 (my Aunt), his mother did not change.

Thank you for sharing your records.

Well, my Sunday is over, it takes a lot of time to decipher old papers. Have a nice week.
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:59 pm      Post subject:
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I think it would be interesting to note at this point about Marianna name.

I've heard this story from Head Clerk of Registry Office.
Many years ago, many priests considered inapprioritate to give a weak human being the name Marie, the name of God's Mother. When people wanted to give name Marie (Maria in polish) to their child, priest was writing different form on that name which was Marianna. Nowadays nobody is so strict of course, so there are barely to none women using Marianna name. That would be proof that this story was not an urban legend. As a side note, there is big cult of God's Mother in Poland, thats why we don't use name Maria and use Maryja instead to distinguish it from usual names. So ayway, if You find in records once time Maria and other time Marianna don't care, these are the same in fact.


This is nice that there exists a thread about descendants of Głuchoniemcy/Walddeutsche people here. This is old history of Polish lands. People (german colonists) were moved to Markowa and other surrounding villiges as well as Łańcut town. They for a long time were keeping their difference, some even in XVIII century in Markowa didn't speak polish, only kind of german. But Galicia was poor land, as well as people were, so many of them emigrated to USA and other countries. And nowadays, these strange german-like surnames, that can bee seen in Markowa area only, are leftovers from that times.
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:24 am      Post subject:
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Interesting the story about Marianne, I like it.

But, being from France *), I disagree on your assumption "Nowadays ... there are barely to none women using Marianna name"
I know several Marianne here in France, or in Europe, including of Polish origin.

(*) Marianne is a national emblem of France and an allegory of Liberty and Reason. The statue of Liberty is our Marianne - the small one in Paris, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paris-liberte-eiffel.jpg, the big one in NY.

I would not write that people of German or Germanic origin were "colonist" in Kazimierz Wielki era. My perception of the word "colonist" is that it imply a conquest of terrritories (which is what French and English did for centuries all over the Planet). I think the word "settler" - osiedleniec - fits better. They were given a land to labor it by Polish kings, were exempted from taxes for two decades or so, and stayed within that framework. The whole families came to settle together, and they stayed together within their new place they created (I see it like US settlers going westward, the power of movies!).
I would like to learn throu my own genealogy records how they became Głuchoniemcy/Walddeutsche, and when.

I would also like to learn when they started to emigrate to the US and to France (two major directions as far as I know) - it was probably the same stream like Dutchmen or German or Scandinavian accrossing the ocean.
The Mayflower Voyage date to 1620, XVII century. And then it was a permanent flow of Europeans until the mid of XX c.

We had also a lot of emigrants to the US and elswhere as a result of the WW2 - but it is something different.

Last year I have been visiting Tenement Museum in NY, it is in Lower East Side on Manhattan. This museum is about urban immigrant history, they have "a five-story brick tenement building that was home to an estimated 7,000 people, from over 20 nations, between 1863 and 1935". What is interesting is the everyday life one can guess from furnitures, WC, kitchen, rooms.

Looking forward to learn more, understand better.
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:42 pm      Post subject:
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Here is the only picture I have of Marcin Kielar and Marianna Kluz, with three of their grown up children. Handwritten by Jadwiga Kielar, daughter of Jozef: "Rodzice i rodzenstwo Jozefa Kielara", which stands for "Parents and sibillings of Jozef Kielar".

I used Adobe to put together both sides of the picture and added information I received on this forum, completed with dates from records markowa.births.1898.july and markowa.births.1894.january



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ninglot



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:29 pm      Post subject:
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Hello all!

I was Googling my last name trying to find some leads to ancestors and I stumbled upon this forum!

My name is Nicole Inglot, and my dad's family is from Albigowa, Poland. I told my father about this forum, and I'm hoping he joins in the conversation, as he will have a lot more information on the genealogy. In fact, although I live in Chicago, he currently resides in Albigowa - where it all began!
I look forward to hearing from any of you that might have some more information on this last name - be it ancestors or current relatives.

~Nicole
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:05 am      Post subject:
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Welcome Nicole,

Excellent news to have someone interested in genealogy, currently in Albigowa or Markowa, maybe able to see the Church's records or Registry Office's ones, or taking pictures of graves. Looking forward to your Dad showing on this forum.

Wikipedia is our friend with all that names and historical references:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C5%82uchoniemcy

Elzbieta
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ninglot



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Post Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:34 pm      Post subject:
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I hope he does too..

So far I can share with you a public site that he made in commemoration of his father - my grandpa - Tadeusz Inglot.

http://tadeusz.inglot.com/

There is a picture of my grandpa and grandma, Tadeusz and Anna, as well as a biography taken from a Polish monograph on my grandpa's life. If you click the red underlined link, it will give you access to this extensive monograph which outlines the history of the village of Albigowa from 1384-1990. It is really quite an incredible piece of work. I am just beginning to explore this document, but so far I've stumbled upon names you mention!

There are biographies on numerous names - to name a few from the Inglot family: Antoni, Jozef, Janina, Mieczyslawa, Piotr, Jan, and Tadeusz are listed.

From the Kluz family there is information on: Mieczyslawa, Ireneusz, Jan, Tadeusz, and Maria.
From Cyran family there is information on: Mariusz.
Bytnar family: Anna, Jan, Roman, Andrzej, Krystyna and Tadeusz.

Check this document out and let me know if you discover anything!

-Nicole
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frostyrose33



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Post Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:30 pm      Post subject:
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Hello Daniel, Elzbieta, and Nicole,

My grandfather's grandfather was Tadeusz Inglot. Not the same person as yours, Nicole, but perhaps related. My Tadeusz was born around 1840-1850 or so. His son was Sebastian, born 1870. Sebastian's son was Wojciech, born 1894 in Markowa. Wojciech's son was Edward, born 1928. Family story says that Sebastian had a brother, Tadeusz too, and another brother who was never heard from after he went to France to help fight in a war.

It was possible to go back that far because Sirdan sent some copies to me of a few marriage, birth, and death records related to the names in the title of this thread, for which I am very grateful. I have transcribed these few photographed records, with the thought of sharing them on Poland GenWeb. I haven't posted the transcriptions there yet.

However, I'll post them here. These are precious records that should be shared. Maybe you all will recognize some names.

Roseanne



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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:00 am      Post subject:
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Thank you very much Roseanne.

It takes long time to decypher old handwritting, it's very precious to share your records, much easier to use.

Thank to all others too.

Elzbieta
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frostyrose33



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:10 pm      Post subject:
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Your welcome, Elzbieta. Yes, a couple of months, here and there, along with other's advice to use the proper Polish names instead of the Latin ones, and a couple of reference books as well. I couldn't decipher some words at the corners of the pages, but tried to be faithful to the documents.

I reviewed your posts and looked for some names for you in the birth records, with no luck at anything obvious. Several small typos jumped out (!), and will be fixed. Maybe you will find something in the marriage or death records. Or maybe a researcher could help. The records here are just a small number of those that exist.

Roseanne
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:26 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Nicole, its nice that there is one more who is interested in finding relatives among names from first topic. These surnames are so popular in my area, that it does not automatically mean all people with same surnames are related. But on the other hand, we might assume there was ancestor for all of them that had lived long, long time ago. Who knows, but regarding Markowa, we have acces to records dated from 1784. Hundred years older records are in Lwow, there is no access to them.

@frostyrose33
Its nice Roseanne you have started deciphering old latin records. But its hard work and researcher should have basic knowledge of language and polish names i guess. There is a program of indexing parish records leading on polish genelogy site. Maybe in a free time i will contibute my records' copies to them.
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