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WasniewskTh



Joined: 02 Mar 2018
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Location: Franklin, Indiana USA

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:09 pm      Post subject: St. Adalbert's Church Records in Chicago
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Has anyone else had a problem looking in the 1883 marriage records on Family Search? I have a marriage license saying the marriage was performed 17 June 1883 by Fr. Smigurski. When going to

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XXD9-JYT?i=74&wc=M66P-FTG%3A39625701%2C40506101&cc=1452409

that date does not appear, but there's a reference that I don't completely understand to August 1884. The entries that are there, are made by the same Fr. Smigurski. When I go to the first page of that next year, there are no entries for the 1883 dates that were missed.

I'm assuming I'm just out of luck and there's nothing to be done, somehow the entries were missed when transitioning from one book to the next. But I am desperate because this marriage record would be the only place I can get the names of the parents of my great grandmother.

If anyone has any suggestions based on any similar situation, I'd very much appreciate hearing them.

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Thomas Wasniewski
Franklin, Indiana USA
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:16 am      Post subject:
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Hi Thomas,
I looked at the link to this marriage record book, as well as the book that begins with 1884 marriages. I see your problem. The one good thing is that both books begin with an alphabetical index of the marriages contained in the book and a notation of the page on which the record can be found. Did you look to see if your great-grandparents' marriage is listed there? I would have looked, but you did not give the names of the couple. This would assume that there is some error in the marriage license. Another possibility, though perhaps not very likely, is that the date on the license is correct but the ceremony was performed in another church (in which Father Smigurski did not usually work).
Best of luck in solving it,
Sophia
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WasniewskTh



Joined: 02 Mar 2018
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Location: Franklin, Indiana USA

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:28 am      Post subject: St. Adalbert's Church Records in Chicago
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Leon Wasniewski married Stanislawa Marcinkowski. I'll attach a copy of the marriage license. Maybe I should try a new post under her name, in case that means something to anyone in the group.


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Thomas Wasniewski
Franklin, Indiana USA
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WasniewskTh



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Location: Franklin, Indiana USA

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:37 am      Post subject: Stanislawa Marcinkowski 1864-1898
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Hello, I'm looking for help trying to find the parents of this great grandmother of mine. This request is being attached to a post about the problem I'm having with the record of her marriage at St. Adalbert's Church in Chicago in 1883. The witness at the baptism of my grandfather in 1895 at the same church was a Joseph Marcinkowski. Other of that last name that had marriages in the PGSA index were Agnes married Joseph Konratowicz in 1903, Andrew married Olga Geissert in 1886, Frank married Maria Bak in 1891, Hedwig married Wladyslaw Szszeski in 1914, Julia married Frank Wardynski in 1898, Maria married Ignacy Nawrocki in 1912 and Theodora married Theodore Pawlowski in 1885. If anyone recognizes any of those other names, that would also be helpful. I've been trying to find them on Family Search and Ancestry.com as well. Thanks for any help you might be able to offer.
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Thomas Wasniewski
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Ute
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:15 am      Post subject: Re: St. Adalbert's Church Records in Chicago
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WasniewskTh wrote:
Has anyone else had a problem looking in the 1883 marriage records on Family Search? I have a marriage license saying the marriage was performed 17 June 1883 by Fr. Smigurski. When going to

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XXD9-JYT?i=74&wc=M66P-FTG%3A39625701%2C40506101&cc=1452409

that date does not appear, but there's a reference that I don't completely understand to August 1884. The entries that are there, are made by the same Fr. Smigurski. When I go to the first page of that next year, there are no entries for the 1883 dates that were missed.

I'm assuming I'm just out of luck and there's nothing to be done, somehow the entries were missed when transitioning from one book to the next. But I am desperate because this marriage record would be the only place I can get the names of the parents of my great grandmother.

If anyone has any suggestions based on any similar situation, I'd very much appreciate hearing them.


There's an Aug 6, 1895 marriage of a Leon Wisniewski at St. Adalbert's, however, the bride's name is Catharina Pacanowska: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XXD9-KWS?i=163&wc=M66P-VPX%3A39625701%2C40376001&cc=1452409 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7X1-628
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:25 am      Post subject:
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Yes, Ute, I saw that also.
But he is Leon Wasniewski, not Wisniewski. And once you are in the second book of marriages, it is a different priest.
Sophia
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WasniewskTh



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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:25 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks to Ute and Sophia for the comment, but Sophia was correct. Leon Wisniewski is not known to be part of my family, at least at this time. One of the children of Leon Wasniewski and Stanislawa Marcinkowski was Martin Wasniewski, and he actually married my grandmother Victoria Wisniewski, daughter of Roman and Mary Kania. That family has several Leo names, but all in Pennsylvania. Roman was born 1873 in Rypin, son of Francisczek born 1835 and Marianna Galecki, who had five other children, but none named Leon.
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Thomas Wasniewski
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:16 pm      Post subject:
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WasniewskTh wrote:
Thanks to Ute and Sophia for the comment, but Sophia was correct. Leon Wisniewski is not known to be part of my family, at least at this time. One of the children of Leon Wasniewski and Stanislawa Marcinkowski was Martin Wasniewski, and he actually married my grandmother Victoria Wisniewski, daughter of Roman and Mary Kania. That family has several Leo names, but all in Pennsylvania. Roman was born 1873 in Rypin, son of Francisczek born 1835 and Marianna Galecki, who had five other children, but none named Leon.


Thomas, Sophia & Ute,

Although Sophia’s idea of Adolph Snigurski possibly working in another parish at that time sounds like a good one, it most likely does not work. According to the attached history of Polish parishes in Chicago from the PGSA site, He was pastor of St. Adalbert’s from1878 to 1884. In 1884 Fr. Radziejewski was appointed pastor. Since the info on the marriage license/cetificate states that Snigurski was pastor of St. Adalbert’s the marriage must have taken place there. The notation on the bottom of the page for 1883 states: “everything up to 3 August, 1884---Vol. 4(?)” which means that all the extant entries until that date are found in the volume which has the final entry dated 6 February, 1883. For the years 1882 & 1883 a number of dates are out of order. All this taken together would seem to indicate that the record of Leon and Stanislawa’s marriage together with the records for about ½ of 1883 and the first 7 months of 1884 are not to be found. I’m afraid that the search for the church marriage is at a dead end.

Sorry that I can’t be more upbeat regarding the search.

Dave



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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:59 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Dave and Thomas,
Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that I thought Father Snigurski was working in a different parish at the time. I was suggesting, rather, that he might have performed a marriage in another parish at the request of the couple, and with permission from that parish's priest. When signing the lower portion of the marriage license for Leon and Stanislawa, he might have filled in the name of St. Adalbert's because he was so used to writing that. Having said this, I know it is a stretch. All things considered, I agree with Dave's conclusion that this marriage did happen at St. Adalbert's but simply did not make it into the record book.
It appears, from online searches, that Father Snigurski moved to Scranton, PA around this time to become part of the Polish National Catholic Church there.
Best regards,
Sophia

edit 8/17: Thanks to Dave for catching an error. My last sentence should read, "It appears, from online searches, that Father Snigurski moved to Scranton, PA around this time."


Last edited by Sophia on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:16 pm      Post subject:
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P.S. Interesting two pages from "Poles of Chicago, 1837-1937". Page 98 mentions Father Snigurski in relation to St. Adalbert's. Page 99 mentions him in relation to St. Mary of Perpetual Help, in the timeframe of interest to Thomas.

http://archive.org/stream/polesofchicago1800zgle#page/98/search/snigurski

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Sophia
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WasniewskTh



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Post Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:56 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks for your kind help and opinion, Dave, as discouraging as it might be. I'm assuming that there would be less than a zero chance that any records or missing pages were somehow found after these microfilms were made and then digitized. This kind of situation really puts very sturdy mortar in to my brick wall, I guess. Have you seen similar situations in other parishes?

I also saw from internet searches, that St. Adalbert's isn't even listed as an active parish anymore. Evidently there is some continuing controversy going on between the archdiocese and some organization of former parishoners, including even a still open appeal to the Vatican.

Just out of curiosity and to cross it off the list entirely, I did go back to Family Search records for Mary of Perpetual Help, but those marriage records don't start until 1886 it says.

In any event, I guess the only thing that will help me find the next generation of this family is, some other researcher who might have information that is not yet posted online. Maybe a miracle will happen at some point, otherwise I can't even start to try to find the village of birth, if I don't have the parents' names.

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP. At least I didn't do something stupid and just missed something obvious, although I wish I had.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:46 pm      Post subject:
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WasniewskTh wrote:
Thanks for your kind help and opinion, Dave, as discouraging as it might be. I'm assuming that there would be less than a zero chance that any records or missing pages were somehow found after these microfilms were made and then digitized. This kind of situation really puts very sturdy mortar in to my brick wall, I guess. Have you seen similar situations in other parishes?

I also saw from internet searches, that St. Adalbert's isn't even listed as an active parish anymore. Evidently there is some continuing controversy going on between the archdiocese and some organization of former parishoners, including even a still open appeal to the Vatican.

Just out of curiosity and to cross it off the list entirely, I did go back to Family Search records for Mary of Perpetual Help, but those marriage records don't start until 1886 it says.

In any event, I guess the only thing that will help me find the next generation of this family is, some other researcher who might have information that is not yet posted online. Maybe a miracle will happen at some point, otherwise I can't even start to try to find the village of birth, if I don't have the parents' names.


THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP. At least I didn't do something stupid and just missed something obvious, although I wish I had.


Thomas & Zofia,

I think that Thomas is correct that it is an extremely long shot that the missing records exist somewhere. Wacław Kruszka’s Historya Polska w Ameryce quotes from a letter written by Snigurski regarding his resignation from the pastorate of St. Adalbert’s in which he speaks of the burdens of often not having an assistant and how these burdens brought him to a state of ill health near the end of his pastorate. Kruszka’s text goes a long way towards explaining the condition of the record keeping and the missing entries. He most likely was overwhelmed by the work needed to care for what by then was a large congregation and the quality of his record keeping suffered.

Polish speaking priests in the US during the early days of the wave of Polish peasant immigration (beginning c. 1870) belonged to a relative small “club” where the members knew each other and moved from place to place and from parish to parish. The big wheels of the “club” in Chicago were the Resurrectionists who staffed St. Stanislaus Kostka and they acted as “recruiters” bringing more Polish clerics to Chicago. According to Kruszka, Snigurski had worked in Panna Maria, Texas (the 1st Polish settlement and parish in the US) and also in Wisconsin prior to cominjg to Chicago. He goes on to state that Snigurski did go to Scranton PA from Chicago. He worked there for a short time and then went to Brazil where he died a short time later.

Sophia, the info you found that he worked in a Polish National Catholic Church in PA cannot be reliable. The Polish National Catholic Church broke away from the RC Church in 1897, which does not fit the time frame. The organizer of that break away, Fr. Hodur, did organize the PNC Church in Scranton, PA but more than a decade later.

Thomas, although it is not likely that the missing records exist, if you want to leave no stone unturned, you could contact St. Paul Parish in Pilsen which was responsible for the closed parishes of St. Adalbert’s and St. Anne’s. The LDS films for the Catholic churches in the Archdiocese of Chicago and in the Diocese of Gary were made at the respective chancery offices. A representative from each parish was to deliver the books to the central location for the filming. In theory, it is possible that some register may have been overlooked, although that seems highly unlikely given they statement about everything being there up to August 3, 1884. Fr. Radziejewski took over the pastorate of St. Adalbert’s after leaving Immaculate Conception in South Chicago (where my maternal grandmother’s family first belonged after arriving in the US) in July of 1884.

Stanislawa is not indexed in the obits from the Chicagoski or in PRCUA insurance claims so unless you can locate her death certificate or an obit from a local newspaper in the Pilsen area, sources of her parents’ names seem extremely limited.

Dave
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:21 pm      Post subject: Wasniewski at St. Adalbert, Chicago
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Just a thought ---
May I suggest that you take another look at all the entries in St. Adalbert's church marriage records one by one at Family Search.org for that year -(or the prior and later one just in case?) and look for spelling errors - if you haven't already.
My grandparents -- Franciszek Jerawski and Franciszka Krakowska were married there in 1895. The third time I looked through the records -one by one - I found it - but the names read Franciscus Trawski and Tranoszcam Markowska. If i hadn't known his parents names I wouldn't have recognized it.

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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:32 am      Post subject:
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Thomas,
You have an additional avenue of research, albeit tedious: follow parallel lines. You mentioned Joseph Marcinkowski was a witness at the baptism of your grandfather. You may want to test the hypothesis that Joseph (Jozef) was Stanislawa's brother. If you are able to research him and find his place of birth, and then have the good luck to find records of baptism from that place, and find there a baptism for a Stanislawa in a year that matches your expectation for her, then you may have your answer. Not 100% reliable, as Marcinkowski is not a rare name, nor are the names Jozef and Stanislawa. Still, it may be worth trying. While a ship manifest for Joseph (if you can find it) might not include this info, you may find him in later census records where you may at least learn which partition he was from (e.g. Russian). Maybe he has an obituary that gives a town name. If he travelled back and forth between his homeland and Chicago (some immigrants did) you may find later ship manifests that do provide a home town. That sort of thing. Further, you may continue looking through the baptisms and marriages at St. Adalbert's to see if your Stanislawa was a sponsor or witness to any other Marcinkowski family member. This may open up new potential siblings for you.
Another strategy that has worked for me is to find siblings on ship passenger lists, in the years during which the manifests have that lovely helpful column where the immigrant provided the name and address of the person they were going to. Finding a Marcinkowski passenger who would indicate they were going to their sister Stanislawa Wasniewski in Chicago would be ideal. It is a really long shot, but so is hoping to find that someone else has done the research.
Best of luck to you,
Sophia
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:45 pm      Post subject:
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Thomas, along those lines of Sophia’s suggestion, I tried to explore records for your grandfather’s godfather Joseph Marcinkowski in the area. This Joseph Marcinkowski would have been close in age to Stanislawa Marcinkowska and was buried in the St. Adalbert cemetery. Maybe futher research will find that he is a brother or relative of your great grandmother? The census record shows he was naturalized, so if you locate his naturalization record, it might provide a town clue.

Joseph Marcinkowski - United States Census, 1910
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKC1-K7H
with mother Jozepha

Joseph Marcinkowski - Illinois, Cook County Deaths, 1878-1994
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7SJ-FSZ
Died 02 Mar 1917, Cemetery: St. Adalbert
Second link – Joseph Marcinkowski - Illinois, Archdiocese of Chicago, Cemetery Records, 1864-1989
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HJ-FNYS

Josephine Marzinkowski - Illinois, Cook County Deaths, 1878-1994 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MW-4HGF
Died 07 Apr 1917, Cemetery: St. Adalbert (a month after Joseph)
Second link – Joseph Marcinkowski - Illinois, Archdiocese of Chicago, Cemetery Records, 1864-1989
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HJ-FNBM

If you look at the Archdiocese of Chicago, Cemetery Records image for both Joseph and Josephine, they are buried in the same grave. If you click next or back from that image you can also see others with the Marcinkowski name buried in the cemetary.

There is conflicting info about Josepha (Josephine.) Her death records show her as 66 years old, but the 1910 census shows her as the mother of Joseph as 90 years old. If she is Joseph’s mother her age in 1910 would likely be somewhere between the two.

I also note that this Joseph Marcinkowski, is listed from German Poland as apparently was Leon Wasniewski.

Thomas, I also found some records other that I think pertain to your Wasniewski family. I will send them to you by private message in case you do not already have them.

Good luck.

Diane
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