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southern_dude21



Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:57 pm      Post subject: Kołc / Kotz in south eastern Poland
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Hi everyone,

I am looking for genealogy information on the 'Kotz' surname (most probably Kołc originally in Polish, since that's how it's spelled on their tombstone). In particular, I'm looking for any biographical information on the following people: Jan Kołc (John Kotz) -- born around 1870 in Poland, and died around 1940 here in the United States (McAdoo, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania). I'm still trying to find out where he is from, but I think I have it narrowed down to either the Podcarpackie or Małopolska province). He was married to Agata Cisoń (Agatha Cison), also born in Poland. They had a daughter, Mary Leah (who married Walter Szot (Shott)). Would you have any further information to share? Thanks for any help you may be able to provide!

Tim
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PabianAus
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Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Replies: 181
Location: Australia

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:35 pm      Post subject:
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Tim,

When did your ancestor come to America?
Do you have the passenger list manifest of the ship that he came on? Via Elis Island, Philadelphia, Baltimore or Castle Garden ?

Have you obtained his U.S. Naturalization Intent & Petition, or Draft Registration Form, or Social Security details?

Did Jan and Agata marry in Pennsylvania ? If yes, then what details does the marriage certificate provide ?

What clues do the 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930 US Censuses provide ?

Those records should all provide more clues as to what the original surname may have been, where he was born, and which year he entered the USA. The more of the US documents that you can source, the better you can cross check his details to get a higher degree of confidence.

What actual document do you base your assumption on that he was born around 1870, and in either the Podkarpackie or Małopolska provinces in Poland ?

There are lots of Jan/John Kołc/Kotz that came to America. Before leaping into Poland, you need to be very sure of what his actual surname, place of birth, and year of birth were based on the various US based documents.

Also, your Kołc / Kotz could have been any number of surnames in Poland which might have been simplified upon arrival in America e.g. Koc / Kuc / Katz / Kątz / Kutz / Kolczyński / Kołczyński / Kołczycski / Kolczykowski / Kolczynowski / Kaczmarczyk

Tom
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southern_dude21



Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:09 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Tom,

Thanks for your message! My ancestors came to the US in the 1890s. Originally Agatha came to Buffalo, New York, and was not married at the time (Agata Cison). I found a passenger list manifest for her. It just lists her home country (not city, though). However, I cannot find a definitive one for her husband Jan Kołc (his name on the family tombstone that I found). We knew him as John Kotz. According to my family, they were married at St. Cunegunda's in McAdoo, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania. I'm still trying to hear back from the church (it's been closed). But, the interesting thing is that I cannot find anywhere a marriage certificate or license.

John was born in 1871 according to his tombstone, and the census data has his birth year anywhere between 1868 and 1870. Podkarpackie is where the other side of the family is from, who also lived in McAdoo. And, according to a genealogy researcher, most Poles who settled in McAdoo were from Małopolska, which is the neighboring state to Podkarpackie. Also, the surnames Kołc and Cisoń occur there according to a surname search. So really it's just a guess, but I'm trying to narrow things down.

It's true what you say about focusing on the US records first. However, I wasn't getting very far there, so I jumped the pond! I appreciate your guidance, Tom. Thanks.

Tim
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rsowa
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Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 177
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USA

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:08 pm      Post subject:
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Tim...Tom is right. Keep looking in American records...you'll find something eventually. One more tidbit to think about might be what I have found with my ancestral families. Only a tiny fraction of those that immigrated actually knew their own birth date. Their birth dates and ages were reported differently in many American records.
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southern_dude21



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Post Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:57 pm      Post subject: UPDATE
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Hi gentlemen,

I received back the naturalization petition for John Kotz (Johan Kołc). He was born on 24 June 1870 in what's listed as Kremenica, Austria. I believe this is actually Krzemienica, Galicia. Also, his wife Agatha Cison (Agata Czison) was born around 1875 in what's listed as Zavadka, Austria. I believe this to actually be Zawadka, Galicia.

They both immigrated to the United States, first to Buffalo, New York, and then to McAdoo, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania. Can anyone please help me find where this Krzemienica and Zawadka are located? Thanks so much.

Tim
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PabianAus
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:20 am      Post subject:
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From the website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawadka

Zawadka may refer to the following places in Poland:
• Zawadka, Lower Silesian Voivodeship (south-west Poland)
• Zawadka, Lublin Voivodeship (east Poland)
• Zawadka, Limanowa County in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland)
• Zawadka, Miechów County in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland)
• Zawadka, Nowy Sącz County in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland)
• Zawadka, Wadowice County in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland)
• Zawadka, Strzyżów County in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland)
• Zawadka, Bieszczady County in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland)
• Zawadka, Myślenice County in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland)
• Zawadka, Gmina Koło in Greater Poland Voivodeship (west-central Poland)
• Zawadka, Gmina Olszówka in Greater Poland Voivodeship (west-central Poland)
• Zawadka, Silesian Voivodeship (south Poland)
• Zawadka, Pomeranian Voivodeship (north Poland)
Given that you know that Zawadka was in Austria (Galicia), that narrows it down to the ones in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland) (5 places)and Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland) (2 places).

From the website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krzemienica

Krzemienica may refer to the following places:
• Krzemienica, Łódź Voivodeship (central Poland)
• Krzemienica, Łańcut County in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland)
• Krzemienica, Mielec County in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland)
• Krzemienica, Pomeranian Voivodeship (north Poland)
Given that you know that Zawadka was in Austria (Galicia), that narrows it down to the ones in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland) (2 places).

So the next steps is to try and adopt a logical process of elimination. If you assume/know that they were married in Poland, then a first logical assumption would be that they lived close by.
That means you can focus on just the Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland) instances of Zawadka and Krzemienica.
Looking at the map of Poland you can easily see that other possible towns/villages which come close to being classified as ‘nearby’ would be:
• Zawadka, Strzyżów County in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland)
• Krzemienica, Łańcut County in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland)
• Krzemienica, Mielec County in Subcarpathian Voivodeship (south-east Poland)

Other possible ‘nearby’ towns could include:
• Zawadka, Nowy Sącz County in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland)
• Zawadka, Limanowa County in Lesser Poland Voivodeship (south Poland)
Do you have any information on where they married ?

Tom
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