Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:40 pm
Post subject: Looking for my grandparents - Wakula, Zybura,
Searching for Franciszek Wakula from Riczerho, born in 1885, immigrated to the US in 1909.
Zofia Zybura from Zalesie, born between 1885-1888, immigrated in 1905.
Wladislaw Sleaszynski, born around 1886, his father was Martin Sleaszynski. Immigrated to US somewhere between 1905 - 1911. He would have had a wife by the name of Frances Kunsavage, a daughther, Marcella, born in 1904.
If anyone knows where I can search for these relatives, or has interest in same and has already done research, I would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks. Tom.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 1:18 pm
Post subject:
Hi Tom,
I thought maybe I found your Wladislaw Sleaszynski, but then I noted that he was single when he arrived in 1907, and you have his daughter Marcella born in 1904. Are you sure of that date? The reason I ask is that if he was born in 1886, he would have only been 18 when Marcela was born. Obviously that could happen, but I guess that I haven't ran across many Polish immigrant fathers that were that young. Could Frances have been married before she married Wladislaw?
I might as well give you what I found, even though it might not be your Wladyslaw. There is a Wladyslaw Slezynsky that arrived in NY June 13, 1907. The Ellis Island manifest is here http://tinyurl.com/lsu2n6z He was 19, and going to his brother Jan's in Mocanaqua, PA. He is indexed as being from Hajowieck, Russia-Poland, but the Hamburg passenger lists have it indexed as Mazowiech. It looks like it might be Mazowieck to me. I don't know if this would be the administrative district (?) Mazowieckie or not. His birthplace looks like it might say Chojne, but I didn't find that on a map.
Cheri
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:09 pm
Post subject: Wladislaw Sleaszynski
Thank you for responding with this information. Like you, I was apprehensive of the record you and I both looked at of him coming to the US in 1907 and being single. I didn't put too much weight on the fact that he was listed as single, however, I would assume that his wife, Frances and his daughter would have been with him. I can not find a record for either one, Frances (wife), and Marcella, the daughter. Marcella was born 14 Dec 1904 and is listed on Census Records as an Alien, until 1940 when it shows that she was naturalized. I have talked to one of her sons who is still alive and he confirms this information.
I am now 74 years old and up until two years ago, I never knew my grandfather's name. We always called him "Zedo", as did everyone in the town. I don't think it translates into anything if it were Polish. I have confirmed that he was married twice, had one child (Marcella) with his first wife, Frances Kunsavage, and shortly after her death in 1911 he remarried to Elizabeth Trella who was my mother's mother.
The whole problem with my family search is that we started too late, my mother died in 1951, my grandfather died in 1947, his second wife died somewhere around 1935, my faather died in 1987. All Uncles and Aunts who would have known anything about family are gone. I do have one Uncle who is 83 and we are working together on this. Seems that we can really uncover things about family we never knew, like one Aunt, or who we always thought was our Aunt. Now that we have so many dates, her relationship to us is questionable. My grandmother came to the US in 1905, my grandfather came to the US in 1909. They were married in 1911. This supposed Aunt was born August 1908, however the state of New Jersey does not have a birth record for her. They searched 1907, 1908, 1909 and nothing. Interestingly, I can not find a Social Security Death record for her, under her supposed maiden name, Wakula, married names of Pascoe, Stewart, and Dawes. None of her children have ever seen a birth certificate. She is a real mystery given the dates we have. But, to me, she will always be my Aunt Mary.
I guess what I really need to do is try to learn how to search other places than Ancestry.com, Roots Web, Ellis Island, and Mormon site. Although you would think I would find them in one of these places. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate your efforts.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:12 pm
Post subject:
Tom,
From my grandmother's village I've seen most men emigrate first, and their wife and children emigrate later (probably after they've earned enough for the tickets). It's the same with single people too. I haven't seen too many adult siblings on the same ship, but I've seen many siblings going to their brother, sister, or cousin who emigrated first.
If any of your family members were Catholic (and other churches have records as well), the church is one place to look for records. In the case of your aunt with the missing birth certificate, maybe there is a baptismal record. I found it interesting recently looking at old passports at Ancestry ( I think they are through the early 1920s). They were from people who were born in the U.S., in many cases going back to visit parents who went back to Poland. In many of these passports, the proof of birth was a baptismal record.
In Poland too, we have to rely on church records for our grandparents' birth records. If you're lucky the LDS filmed the records in your ancestors village. You can check the village names in the library catalog at Family Search.
Don't worry about starting late. My mom and her sisters didn't know much when I started. Be sure to ask any cousins, you never know who might have some answers. It turned out that my mom's cousin knew a little about my grandfather's family. Keep asking questions!
Cheri
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2950
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:39 am
Post subject:
Tom,
Cheri's suggestion to look for baptismal records for proof of birth is an excellent idea. Civil registrations --- especially of births --- are very hit and miss until after 1920. The reason is that although various counties kept birth records before that time, many births were not recorded. Since most births---even in large cities---took place at home with a midwife rather than a physician assisting at the birth often the midwife did not send the registration of the birth to the county. Some individuals at a later stage in life did file for a delayed certificate of birth but probably the majority did not do so. Searching for records of individuals whose birth was not registered with the civil authorities is not something easily done on the internet, but it is still very possible with more traditional methods of research.
Good luck with your quest.
Dave
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:50 am
Post subject:
Tom,
I'd also like to add that it is helpful not to assume anything. I did that. My oldest 3 aunts were born in Chicago, so I assumed that my grandparents married there. I quizzed my cousins to find out if they knew where their mother was baptized, because I thought that would lead me to the church where my grandparents were married. Marriage records could have information on where the couple was born/baptized, and also their parents' names. Anyway, I spent much time looking in the wrong places. My mom's cousin knew that my grandparents were married in Hammond, Indiana. This is where my grandparents youngest children were born, but they also started their marriage there.
As Dave said, some births weren't recorded even when they were supposed to be. My cousin had a certificate stating that a birth record was not found for his mother in Cook County, IL. She was born in 1918.
If your grandparents stayed in the same area all their lives, you could maybe guess what church they belonged to, and it's worth a shot to look for a marriage record in case they married in the U.S. Usually there are churches that had large Polish populations. If you wanted to share where all your grandparents lived in the U.S., it could be helpful. Someone here at Polish Origins might have ancestors in the same town, and might know what records are available, or where to look.
Cheri
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:02 pm
Post subject: Looking for my Grandparents
All,
Thank you for the suggestions and the information on where records are kept, etc. I have been in touch with cousins regarding any information on my Aunt Mary, and no one knows anything about whether she is truly our aunt. The reason we are doubting that she is, is because of the date of birth which happened before my grandparents were married. Interestingly, on her marriage application she listed her age as 21 which was the legal age to marry without parental consent. Given the dates of the application it would put her birth year as 1906, not 1908 as we have always known. Could she have been born out of wedlock? Baptized under a different name? Back in the early 1900's I don't know how common it was for folks coming from a different country to become unwed mothers shortly after arriving in the US.
i have contacted the church where my grandparents were married and they confirmed that they have a record of the marriage. I asked if they could search for a baptismal record for my Aunt and they could not find one. The person from the church did say that many births that were out of wedlock were "covered up" to prevent shame on the mother, and they would have been baptized under a different name. That makes it impossible to locate.
I did take two trips to the town where my Maternal Grandfather lived, as well as myself. I talked to a few people who remembered something about our family and have gotten some additional information. I have photographed his headstone at the cemetery, I have a copy of his death certificate, and I also found out that he had a brother whose wife's name was also Frances, living in the same town. I also went to the newspaper office to look up obituaries, etc., and that was helpful.
When trying to search for the wife and the children who came here at a later date, I can not find a record for them, which puzzles me. Would they have used different names for some reason? Seems the more I learn, the bigger the roadblock.
Tom
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2950
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:03 pm
Post subject:
Tom,
I presume that the person from the church who you contacted was a secretary and not a priest. If so, that person's suggestion that a child would be baptized under a different name to prevent the shame of a birth out of wedlock is simply not true. Baptismal records were kept for religious reasons and the priest was obligated to enter only information he knew to be accurate. The status of being born out of wedlock was entered because it was an impediment to receiving holy orders (becoming a priest) or solemn religious profession. This did not mean that a man born out of wedlock could not become a priest but that a dispensation had to be granted so that the ordination would be both valid and lawful. I'm sure that priests took the obligation of entering only accurate information very seriously. Since baptisms usually took place a short time after birth, the father and the sponsors were the ones who arranged for the baptism. If a man acknowledged that he was the father of a child born out of wedlock then his name was entered as the father of the child. If no man acknowledged paternity then the space for the name of the father was left blank or since the records were usually kept in Latin words like "pater ignotus" (father unknown) were entered. I've heard of some parish secretaries who believe that pater ignotus was the name of the father so it is possible the person you contacted didn't understand the entry in the register and made the assumption that what was entered was an attempt to "cover up" the circumstances of the birth. One possibility that comes to mind for your aunt was that perhaps she was the child of relatives or friends who died while she was a young child and your grandparents took her into their family without formally adopting her and so she was an aunt in every way except by birth.
I do not believe that many women and children who followed the husband/father to America used changed names. Sometimes young men from the Russian partition left Poland under some other man's name because proof of having completed military service was necessary for men of military age in order to legally cross the border to get to one of the ports and if they had not completed military service they would either cross the border away from the border checkpoints or would use the papers of someone who had completed his service to cross. If their last name ended in ski or cki it might be helpful to search for them under the feminine ending of ska or cka, if you have not already done so.
Dave
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:48 pm
Post subject: Looking for my Grandparents
What is said about the church using accurate names when baptizing babies born out of wedlock makes perfect sense, and you are correct, the person at the church may not have known exactly what went on back then, just assumed, or heard stories. I would love to go to the church in New Jersey and look with someone at the church records, if they would allow it.
I have researched Zybura's on Ancestry.com and Ellis Island for a child born in 1908 who might have been a relative and have found something. My Grandmother's maiden name was Zybura. I found a record on the Ellis Island site for an Anna Zybura, born about 1908, arriving in 1909 with mother, Katryanna (spelling may be off, can't remember it correctly). She was married to Antoni Zybura who, I think was one of my Grandmother's brother. This is the only record I can find for Anna Zybura born about 1908. I would love to assume (although we should not assume) that I have found my Aunt Mary. Does it make sense that Katryanna and Antoni may not have been able to take care of Anna and that my grandmother took her in as her own, naming her Mary Anna? My grandfather came to the US in 1909, so this all makes sense, I think. Any thoughts?
Tom
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:09 am
Post subject:
Tom,
My first thought was that I would be surprised that there was a name change, then I wondered if there was any chance Maryanna was her name to begin with. I looked at Ellis Island. I saw Antoni going to his sister Maria Zybura's in Passaic NJ in 1904. I saw Zofia going to her brother Antoni in 1905. I saw Katarazyna and daughter Anna going to husband and father Antoni in 1909, so I'm with you on the relationships. Have you seen any of them in the census in 1910? In 1920?
I saw Antoni Zybura's WWI draft registration form. His closest relative was Ewa Zybura. So, it looks like Katarazyna/Katherine must have died. That might be a reason that his sister would raise his child.
By the way, I also looked at your grandfather Franciszek Wakula at Ellis Island. It looks like he was from Rycerka, Galicia. There are 5 villages names Rycerka in Poland. It could be narrowed down by the Rycerkas that were in Galicia at the time, but do you have any information that could narrow it down further? Were there any letters from Poland? Any old photos? I have a photo that was sent to my grandmother, and I hadn't even realized that a relative's address was on it. I thought it was the address for the photo studio...
It looks like there is more than one Zalesie as well. This MIGHT be easier to narrow down. Antoni's wife's last residence was Lukowiec, and by her contact in Poland it says Lukowiec, 101 (or 707) Wiszniow, Galicia. If there is a village by that name by Zalesie, I think it's safe to assume that that would be the Zalesie that your Zyburas are from. Here is that link to the page at Ellis Island http://tinyurl.com/pt9jko2
Have you gotten naturalization records for any of your grandparents?
Cheri
Last edited by Cheri Vanden Berg on Fri May 24, 2013 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:12 am
Post subject:
I am a little confused. I ran into a passport for Agnieszka Zybura who was born on 13 Jun 1907 in Passaic, NJ. Her father was Antoni (not living in 1923 when she applied for the passport) and she was going to live with her step-mother Ewa Zybura.
I think it says that Agnieszka was last in the USA in 1908, and was living with an uncle in Poland.
Now I see that Antoni was single when he arrived in 1904, so maybe he and his wife Katarazyna's villages were not close together at all.
Katarazyna must have gone back to Poland for a visit. What confuses me is would she have left Agnieszka in Poland with family? You do have some mysteries in your family!
Oh, Agnieszka stated her father lived in NJ from 1905-1915, but he came in 1904, and he was still living at the time of his WWI draft registration (about 1918).
Note that Agnieszka was baptized at St. Joseph's in Passaic.
Last edited by Cheri Vanden Berg on Fri May 24, 2013 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2950
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:22 pm
Post subject:
Tom,
It seems that perhaps the best way to begin to clear up some family relationships and to avoid going off in directions which may be dead ends would be to first obtain the marriage information which the parish confirmed is in their records. Marriage records often contain information which points you in good directions for further research. However, I would suggest that you ask the secretary or parish priest to send you photostatic copy of the actual entry in the marriage register rather than a transcribed marriage certificate. Valuable information entered in the register is often not included in a transcribed certificate. I presume that there are no films of records for the parishes your family attended in New Jersey. The way the Mormons were able to film Catholic Church records in the USA required the permission of the local diocese/archdiocese and some bishops gave permission and others did not. When permission for filming was granted there was a cut off date (for privacy reasons) and the records were usually filmed at the chancery office of the diocese/archdiocese. If the records of the parish you are interested in have been filmed then you can view them yourself. If they have not been filmed, then probably the only option is to deal with the local parish and to depend of the good will of the parish staff in order to get a copy of the actual entry in the parish register.
Your reasoning about "Aunt Mary" makes sense, but it is only a working hypothesis and need confirmation from actual records before it can be considered anything more than a theory. In my experience I've found Church records to be invaluable in the research process. As Cheri mentioned in an earlier post about her relatives in Chicago and Hammond, most of my relatives who came to America settled in South Chicago and in Northwest Indiana which made research fairly simple since the parish records Archdiocese of Chicago and the Diocese of Gary and Ft. Wayne in Indiana are available on film.
Wishing you success in your research,
Dave
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:19 pm
Post subject:
Wow such good advice from you all, thank you. Many times, the Ellis Island Ship Manifests are difficult to decipher for me, especially when I am not familiar with towns in Poland, and the handwriting is also difficult for me.
One confusing thing about the Zybura's is that there are several Antoni Zybura's that came through Ellis Island. As far as I know, any Zybura that would be directly related (brother/sister) to my Grandmother (Sophie Zybura) lived in Passaic and Ringwood, NJ. The Antoni that came to the US on 11/1/1904 is my grandmother's brother, Marya is one of her sisters. The three of them lived together in Passaic until my grandmother married in 1911. Katarzyna and daughter Anna arrived and took up residence with them in 1909. My Grandmother also had a sister that came to the US by the name of Frances. She married and lived in Bridgeport, CT until her death. I have not researched her records, what I know was told to me by my Uncle Tedd.
I do have a copy of the marriage document of my grandparents from Vital Records in New Jersey, attached. It gives me a lot of information we did not have. I also have a copy of my grandmother's application for Naturalization, dated 1946, however I am not sure whether she actually completed the process, I need to follow through with that part which may be easy since the papers were filed in the county where I now live.
Spoke with my Uncle Tedd today and he thinks that what I have found makes sense also. He does have many letters that were written to his mother from relatives in Poland. We had three of them translated but they did not reveal anything that would help with our searches. He will get more letters to me so that we can find someone who can read the letters that are hand written in Polish. Not sure I still have a source at the University in Warsaw, but will try.
The Passport referred to, I don't think is anyone I am searching for. I actually did find that Passport on line.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:44 am
Post subject:
Tom,
You didn't find more than one Antoni Zybura living in Passaic did you? I think that the Agnieszka Zybura from the passport is his daughter, your grandmother Zofia's niece, and the sister of the Anna that you think might be Maryanna. Antoni was single when he arrived in 1904. Unless he went back to Poland (and some men did go back and forth), he would have married Katarazyna in NJ, and his children would have been born in NJ. I would have to check the manifest to see if it said that Anna was a citizen. Agnieszka's passport said that she was born in Passaic, and the proof was her baptismal certificate from St. Joseph's Church in Passaic. This is a church that you could check to clear things up. Maybe Antoni and Katarazyna's marriage record is there (which might include Antoni's and your grandmother Zofia's parents names), and maybe they had a daughter that had your Aunt Mary's birth date. Maybe they have recorded Katarazyna's death as well.
It looks to me like Katarazyna went back to Poland for a visit. I don't know why she would have left Agnieszka there. Agnieszka said her father was Antoni Zybura, her stepmother was Ewa Zybura (and Ewa's name was written on Antoni's WWI draft registration). Also Agnieszka was coming from Lukowiec, the same town Katarazyna and Anna had as their last residence.
When I asked about the letters from Poland, I was curious if they had a return address. If they did then you would know exactly what village your grandparents were from, since there is more than one village with the same name.
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:07 pm
Post subject:
First off, I guess I jumped the gun on the passport and you are correct that she is related to my grandmother as you say. The nice thing is that there is a photo of Agnieszka which I was able to do a screen shot of, and compare it with photos we have of "Aunt Mary". I have sent them to my Uncle Tedd to see if he thinks they are one in the same.
Interesting that the year that Antoni died is as someone said in another post, 3 years before the date of his WW1 Registration Card. Kararzyna was in the US in 1903 and 1908 according to the ship manifest. It also shows that Anna may have been born in Poland.
I have many questions that can certainly be cleared up by the church in Passaic, NJ, St. Joseph's. They do have documentation of my grandparents marriage in 1911. I am going to write a letter asking for documentation on Antoni, Mayra, Agneiszka, Kararzyna, and Anna Zybura. I am sure they will have some, if not all documents I am looking for.
My grandmother's Naturalization Application shows that her foreign residence was Zalesie, Poland, that her husband, Frank Wakula was born in Riczerho, Poland, that she entered the US under the name Zofia Zybura on 5 Apr 1905. Her marriage certificate shows her parents as Martin Zybura and Sofia Wyka, that Sophia Birthplace is (I'm guessing what it looks like) Jerzon - Gal.
Interestingly, I can't find Antoni on any census records.
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