Lenart66
Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Replies: 4
Location: Adelaide, SA AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:41 am
Post subject: Seeking information for Lenart/Biernat from Zaluczne
Hi There,
This is Rod & Diana from Australia, more specifically Adelaide. We have just started researching Diana's side of the family (Lenart).
Her father is Tadeusz Lenart who came to Australia in 1961 following his brother and sister Boleslaw and Stanislawa. Their only other brother remained in Zaluczne (Wit Lenart 04/12/1933 - 01/11/2008). Their parents were Jan Lenart 26/12/1906 - 30/04/1973 and Anna Biernat 11/06/1912 - 15/01/1995, but we can not find a marriage certificate to confirm all the detail. Unfortunately Jan's parents died young and before any of Jan and Anna's children were born, so there is a gap in knowledge of the details regarding their grandparents and beyond. We also believe there is another link some how with an Anastasia Szymusiak. Online data appears to be very sketchy and contains a significant amount of confliction from site to site. This site however has already provided valuable information and therefore we were more than happy to register and hopefully share information that we may have in this great land downunder.
Also seeking information about Wit Lenart's wife Stanislawa who also died in Zaluczne only a few weeks ago but coincidently on the same day and month as Wit did (01/11/2013). We do not know when she was born or even what her maiden name was, sorry not much to go on there just yet.
We know we still have living relatives in Zaluczne but the language barrier is difficult to bridge. In fact one of Wit's twin sons is Father Marian Lenart but we are not sure which parish he is currently with.
We look forward to hearing from anyone who might be able to help kick start our virtual ancestry tour into poland.
Hope to chat soon.
_________________
Lenarts in South OZ
Adelaide to Zaluczne is much closer with the internet, but the information still seems so far away.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:01 pm
Post subject:
Hi Rod and Diana,
My grandmother from Zaluczne was named Aniela Lenart. She was born about 1897, and immigrated to the U.S. in 1913. Interesting that I also have the Biernat and Szymusiak surnames in my family tree, but much further back.
Maybe you've seen my Lenart-Babicz from Zaluczne thread here at Polish Origins. If so, you would have read what a big help Shellie was to me. She had been to the church in Odrowaz, where our relatives from Zaluczne would have attended before the church there was built in the 1930s. We are familiar with your surnames and others, but unfortunately I don't think she has seen records as early as 1906. Also unfortunate is that the 100 year privacy law wouldn't help with finding Jan and Anna's marriage record.
Interesting that Father Lenart is a son of Wit. I believe that when I first joined Polish Origins that he was actually the Pastor at the church in Zaluczne. At least least that is the information that I read on a Zaluczne website. I don't believe that it says that any longer. I had wondered if he might be distantly related to me, as I wonder if Diana might be as well.
Yes, the language barrier can be a problem. I did track down a cousin (a granddaughter of my grandmother's sister) that lives about 20 miles from Zaluczne. We wrote for a while. She started having her son's girlfriend write in English, and when that wasn't convenient (they were away at college) I would write to her using Google translate to write in Polish. I would also write in English in case something got lost in the translation. It is possible that our relatives know someone who can read English.
I will write to her and ask her if she knows of Father Marian Lenart. Hopefully she will write back.
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:04 pm
Post subject:
Hi Cheri, Diana and Rod,
| Quote: | Also unfortunate is that the 100 year privacy law wouldn't help with finding Jan and Anna's marriage record.
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The 100 years rule in Europe does NOT apply to the family able to demonstrate its relationship. The records less than 100 years are not public, but as a child or grand-child you can get it.
Here in France you have to fill a form with your own information (birth date, place, name of parents, etc., and your postal address), the names of your relatives indicating type of relationship, and you receive a paper letter at home. I did not practice it in Poland, but the rule shall be similar.
Maybe someone from PO in Poland could confirm?
Best,
Elzbieta
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Lenart66
Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Replies: 4
Location: Adelaide, SA AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:59 pm
Post subject:
Wow Thanks Cheri and Elzbieta,
We were not expecting such quick responses !!
Just to add to the confusion, there is still a Father Lenart with picture on the Zaluczne.net website but as far as we know (so far) he is not related. We think Father Marian Lenart was at Wadowice. Diana actually returned to Zaluczne back in 2006 and did catch up with Marian. He acted as a guide for a few days site seeing but sadly we did not have the ancestry bug then. We are trying to establish contact with the other relatives in Zaluczne as they will be able to gather some information for us as well, but reading through this site there is already a wealth of knowledge available but it is a case of trying to fit the jigsaw together. We had read though your forums and have found some details relevant to us, particularly the cemetery headstones.
Diana's uncle Boleslaw came to Australia in 1959 with his first wife Aniela who was born in 1922 at Czarny Dunajec and died here in Adelaide 08 Jun 1987, but again that is all we know about her and typically Aniela seems to be a very popular name which makes tracing even more difficult.
We also know that some of the distant relatives did go to the US but we are not sure where that link actually starts just yet.
Thank you both for making such quick contact and we will follow up to see if there are any forms relevant to Poland that we can submit to get the more recent information, as we really need that to get started.
Rod & Diana
_________________
Lenarts in South OZ
Adelaide to Zaluczne is much closer with the internet, but the information still seems so far away.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:46 pm
Post subject:
Yes, thanks Elzbieta, you must be able to get information about your direct ancestor. I am curious about a number of my grandmother's siblings, so I guess I was just thinking that I probably wouldn't be able to get information on some of them yet. I guess in some cases it depends on the priest.
Rod and Diana, Did you have an address - house number - for Wit? You don't have to write it here if you don't want to. This is a long shot, but it would be interesting if that house number matched where some other Lenarts had lived in the 1800s. Like I said, Shellie does have some records. You could write privately here at Polish Origins.
Do you mean that the photo of the priest at Zaluczne.net IS a Father Lenart? I only saw the name ks. mgr Jan Luberda E.c., wyśw. 1990
I am also curious if Father Marian Lenart spoke English when he acted as a guide for you.
Have you tried writing to any priests? I wonder if the current priest in Wadowice would know where your cousin lives now.
I noticed that there are Lenarts from Zaluczne on Facebook. I don't believe that I have any close relatives with the Lenart name that live in Zaluczne. All three of my grandmother's brothers left the are.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
Back to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:38 pm
Post subject:
Could Father Marian Lenart be Ks. Miroslaw Lenart? I found him in Chocznia, which is 3.3 km from Wadowice. Here is an article, and 5 photos of him. Hopefully you will be able to look at the photos larger than they are on this site. http://tinyurl.com/o5jsr2b
It says that he was transferred this summer to a Krakow parish. This is what it said on a transfer list: ks. Mirosław Lenart, Chocznia, Kraków-Wzgórza Krzesławickie
You can find him at Divine Mercy Parish (if this is the correct Father Lenart).
http://tinyurl.com/pn79pfc There is a mailing address and e-mail address.
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Lenart66
Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Replies: 4
Location: Adelaide, SA AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:25 am
Post subject:
Apologies Cheri,
This is the link that I found the other Father Lenart:
http://ckip.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=152%3Azauczne&catid=1&Itemid=22&showall=1
It actually came from a link that Ute had pasted in here 2011. I have looked at so many sites this past few days !!
Diana had a look at the photos but that is definitely not Marian, so now I wonder just how many Father Lenarts are there ??
Father Marian Lenart speaks very good English so if we can find him then he will certainly be able to assist.
We do not have a facebook account...have tried to avoid it....but I can see that it might help with some of this research.
I will send a PM regarding the house numbers as Diana's relatives are still living there.
Regards,
Rod & Diana[/url]
_________________
Lenarts in South OZ
Adelaide to Zaluczne is much closer with the internet, but the information still seems so far away.
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
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Lenart66
Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Replies: 4
Location: Adelaide, SA AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:49 am
Post subject:
Thanks Elbieta,
We will give the links a try and see what happens. Very much appreciated.
Rod & Diana
_________________
Lenarts in South OZ
Adelaide to Zaluczne is much closer with the internet, but the information still seems so far away.
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:51 pm
Post subject:
Hi Rod and Diana,
It's so exciting to see another Lenart family here! I'm so happy that you found Polish Origins, and especially happy that you found Cheri. She's amazing at finding information! I believe you will find that you are cousins!
Last year some of us pooled together and hired a researcher to collect some Zaluczne birth records in the Catholic archive in Krakow. We didn't have enough money to get all the records we wanted, but we managed to get transcriptions (not images, unfortunately) of births from 1786-1827 and 1886-1889. Births after 1889 were not available.
If we work together to figure out the name of Wit's parents and grandparents, we might find their info in the 1886-1889 group of records.
In case anyone is wondering, these are the Zaluczne records available in the diocese archive in Krakow. As you can see, there is a large gap between 1850 and 1886:
birth
1786-1832
1837-1850
1886-1889
weddings
1786-1832
1837-1850
1886-1889
Deaths
1786-1832
1837-1850
1886-1889
The original record books for Zaluczne are probably at the church in Odrowaz. The church in Zaluczne is a smaller chapel, the rectory is in Odrowaz.
There is a new priest there since my visit in 2009. If you wish to contact the priest for information:
ks. Jan LuberdaOdrowąż Podhalański 33
34‑408 Odrowąż Podhalański
tel. +48 18 275 85 74
Zenon, the last time you took guests to Odrowaz, did you find the priest to be cooperative? Did he tell you whether he replies to requests for records?
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 599
Location: GermanyBack to top |
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ZenonPolishOrigins Team Leader
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1532
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:54 pm
Post subject:
| Shellie wrote: | There is a new priest there since my visit in 2009. If you wish to contact the priest for information:
ks. Jan LuberdaOdrowąż Podhalański 33
34‑408 Odrowąż Podhalański
tel. +48 18 275 85 74
Zenon, the last time you took guests to Odrowaz, did you find the priest to be cooperative? Did he tell you whether he replies to requests for records? |
I would say that the new priest in Odrowaz is more cooperative than the one who was there before. However, it is still not so easy to convince him to dedicate too much time for researchers. I am afraid that only personal visit will work. As I wrote a few times before here in the Forum, you can try to contact parish offices by emails or regular mails, but do not send any money there because chances that you will see any response are little...
| Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote: | Elzbieta Porteneuve] | Quote: | Also unfortunate is that the 100 year privacy law wouldn't help with finding Jan and Anna's marriage record.
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The 100 years rule in Europe does NOT apply to the family able to demonstrate its relationship. The records less than 100 years are not public, but as a child or grand-child you can get it.
Here in France you have to fill a form with your own information (birth date, place, name of parents, etc., and your postal address), the names of your relatives indicating type of relationship, and you receive a paper letter at home. I did not practice it in Poland, but the rule shall be similar.
Maybe someone from PO in Poland could confirm? |
You are right Elzbieta. If you are from family and you can prove it you can get access to records related to your direct ancestors. It is relatively easy if you are present in a given Civil Registry Office (Urząd Stanu Cywilnego - USC) personally. If you are asking about that by email or regular mail you never know if you get any answer, especially if you write in English.
Civil Registry Office for Odrowaz is in Czarny Dunajec, address:
Urząd Stanu Cywilnego
ul. Józefa Piłsudskiego 2
34-470 Czarny Dunajec
woj. małopolskie
tel: +48 18 26 135 40
There is no direct email address to the Civil Registry Office only main email to the Czarny Dunajec borough office: gmina [AT] czarny-dunajec.pl
So Rod & Diana, if you have specific questions about persons from your family please post it here and we will try to contact the people in Czarny Dunajec and ask them about procedure how you could get information and an extract from Zaluczne records younger than 100 years old.
We can also help you in translating email to the priest in Odrowaz.
Who knows, maybe earlier with common effort we will be able to find your living relatives in Zaluczne and then the process of getting family history information will be much easier  .
Last edited by Zenon on Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:05 pm
Post subject:
Thank you Zenon!
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