Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:02 pm
Post subject: Help figuring out birth city
I'm trying to figure out where my grandfather, Jakub Malanowski, was born. On his Declaration of Intent, it says "Brarac", Poland, Russia and his last residence was "Sizrac". On the ship manifest his last residence was, "Przerac". Also, on his "DOC", they have his name as Malinowski, but he signed it as Malanowski. Thank you for any help.
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:28 am
Post subject: Re: Help figuring out birth city
| Stamperanon wrote: | | I'm trying to figure out where my grandfather, Jakub Malanowski, was born. On his Declaration of Intent, it says "Brarac", Poland, Russia and his last residence was "Sizrac". On the ship manifest his last residence was, "Przerac". Also, on his "DOC", they have his name as Malinowski, but he signed it as Malanowski. Thank you for any help. |
Name Malanowski today, 950 persons:
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/malanowski.html
while Malinowski is very popular (malina is raspberry), more than 22000 persons:
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/malinowski.html
No "Przerac" but maybe "Przeradz", in gmina Rozwozin (Przeradz Wielki, Poland on today map)
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_IX/175
Here on PO, we had someone with records from Przeradz Wielki
http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12216
Best,
Elzbieta
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:08 am
Post subject:
I looked at his marriage record at St. Hedwig's, you could see it at Family Search http://tinyurl.com/kp6weud , but unfortunately it only gave Poland as a birth place. If you haven't seen it, it gives their mother's names Antoinette Grochowska and Mary Ann Kowalezyk or Kowalczyk .
I put all the village names you gave in Shtetlseeker to see if the names might have changed, but none of them came up. I went to Ellis Island to look at where any other Malanowskis might have come from. I find this to be helpful, because someone else might have the village name written correctly. I was surprised to find Marcely Malanowski (age 36 in 1904 - maybe Jakub's father?) coming from Przerac. It was spelled exactly as it was on Jakub's (Kuba) manifest, and yet a village with that spelling doesn't seem to have existed...
Did Jakub have final papers? On my grandfather's DOC all it said was Poland, but fortunately his final papers had his correct village. Everything I ever tried only said Poland, his marriage record, his Social Security application. Oh, actually, I think his WWI draft registration had his correct village, I just couldn't read it...Jakub probably should have a WWI draft registration too, but as you probably know, it doesn't show up in an index. Sometimes a village is included, sometimes only the country.
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:33 am
Post subject:
Cheri,
In Polish the spelling Przerac and Przeradz are close ("ts" at the end, like in tse tse fly, without "e"), and it could be that even a Polish speaking person note it as Przerac.
Best,
Elzbieta
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:12 am
Post subject:
Thank you Elzbieta, I appreciate your knowledge. I usually wouldn't answer after you have because you know what you are talking about, and I don't have much knowledge on Polish geography, or the language. I thought is was complicated because Jakub had these other villages written on his Declaration of Intention, and now maybe I will make it more complicated. This MIGHT be John Jacob Malanowski's WWI draft registration: http://tinyurl.com/ml69va9 I have seen different records where his month of birth is different but it seems that is always is the 25th day and the year 1892. In the line where it says married or single, it originally said NONE, and then I think it says wife, I don't think it says single, but I could be wrong. It's too bad that it doesn't have the place for next of kin like some forms do. Anyway, this registration gives his birth place as Bransk, Russia Poland. So, IF this is his registration, it's still complicated because Bransk is both a town and a Gmina which includes these villages, unfortunately I don't think any of them resemble what is written on his DOC or manifest.
Last edited by Cheri Vanden Berg on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:18 am
Post subject:
Cheri,
Indeed, on John Malinowski registration' card the name of place is Bransk, with accent it's Brańsk.
Brańsk is circa 240 km distance from Przeradz.
I percieve "single" as correction to NONE.
Googling with "Malanowski" and "Przerac" shows the following list, did you see it? Apparently work from 2006
http://malanow.blogspot.fr/2006/04/ellis-island.html
Elzbieta
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:45 am
Post subject:
| Cheri Vanden Berg wrote: | I looked at his marriage record at St. Hedwig's, you could see it at Family Search http://tinyurl.com/kp6weud , but unfortunately it only gave Poland as a birth place. If you haven't seen it, it gives their mother's names Antoinette Grochowska and Mary Ann Kowalezyk or Kowalczyk .
I put all the village names you gave in Shtetlseeker to see if the names might have changed, but none of them came up. I went to Ellis Island to look at where any other Malanowskis might have come from. I find this to be helpful, because someone else might have the village name written correctly. I was surprised to find Marcely Malanowski (age 36 in 1904 - maybe Jakub's father?) coming from Przerac. It was spelled exactly as it was on Jakub's (Kuba) manifest, and yet a village with that spelling doesn't seem to have existed...
Did Jakub have final papers? On my grandfather's DOC all it said was Poland, but fortunately his final papers had his correct village. Everything I ever tried only said Poland, his marriage record, his Social Security application. Oh, actually, I think his WWI draft registration had his correct village, I just couldn't read it...Jakub probably should have a WWI draft registration too, but as you probably know, it doesn't show up in an index. Sometimes a village is included, sometimes only the country. |
Yes, I have the marriage information.
I saw the Marcely too, not sure if it's a father or not. I've had to start from ground zero on this, everyone has passed away, so I don't know anything about this side of the family.
As for final papers? I don't know. After I typed the original post I found another one here with a link to the gov immigration to try to find the records. Thank you.
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:49 am
Post subject:
| Cheri Vanden Berg wrote: | Thank you Elzbieta, I appreciate your knowledge. I usually wouldn't answer after you have because you know what you are talking about, and I don't have much knowledge on Polish geography, or the language. I thought is was complicated because Jakub had these other villages written on his Declaration of Intention, and now maybe I will make it more complicated. This MIGHT be John Jacob Malanowski's WWI draft registration: http://tinyurl.com/ml69va9 I have seen different records where his month of birth is different but it seems that is always is the 25th day and the year 1892. In the line where it says married or single, it originally said NONE, and then I think it says wife, I don't think it says single, but I could be wrong. It's too bad that it doesn't have the place for next of kin like some forms do. Anyway, this registration gives his birth place as Bransk, Russia Poland. So, IF this is his registration, it's still complicated because Bransk is both a town and a Gmina which includes these villages, unfortunately I don't think any of them resemble what is written on his DOC or manifest:
http://tinyurl.com/ml69va9
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I'm doubt if this is him. Jakub was married to Frances Danik in 1915 and I don't recognize that address from all the documents I have found so far.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:36 pm
Post subject:
Yes, Elzbieta, it does say single on the draft registration. I was too hopeful, and not completely awake when I looked at it earlier. You are correct Stamperanon, this cannot be your Jakub. I knew he was married in 1915, but I thought it said "wife" earlier. Now I see the signatures are not alike. I see it says that he was NA - naturalized in the 1940 census, so he should have final papers...
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:34 pm
Post subject:
| Cheri Vanden Berg wrote: | | Yes, Elzbieta, it does say single on the draft registration. I was too hopeful, and not completely awake when I looked at it earlier. You are correct Stamperanon, this cannot be your Jakub. I knew he was married in 1915, but I thought it said "wife" earlier. Now I see the signatures are not alike. I see it says that he was NA - naturalized in the 1940 census, so he should have final papers... |
When he immigrated, he was going to his step-sisters in Chicago. I can't tell what her last name is. Not sure if it's her married name or maiden name. I hope the file isn't too big to upload.
Marcely Malanowski immigrated in 1904, Jakub in 1911 so it can't be his father.
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:36 pm
Post subject:
OK, I'm sitting here thinking and it just dawned on me. On the ship's Manifest, the last column is Place of Birth. Country - Russia, City or Town - Zuromin. It doesn't even correlate with the Brarac or Sizrac on the DOC. Should I ask about the name in the last post in the name forum?
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:23 pm
Post subject:
| Stamperanon wrote: | | OK, I'm sitting here thinking and it just dawned on me. On the ship's Manifest, the last column is Place of Birth. Country - Russia, City or Town - Zuromin. It doesn't even correlate with the Brarac or Sizrac on the DOC. Should I ask about the name in the last post in the name forum? |
Hi, I don't understand your last question.
Have you seen Zuromin on a map? It's 11.5 km (about 7 miles) from the Przeradz Wielki that Elzbieta mentioned (Elzbieta, you are very smart!) As far a Brarac and Sirzac go, I don't know. There aren't any villages with those spellings. Near Zuromin I notice a Brudnice, and Szoniec. I have no idea if those would be the towns.
I'm not looking at the DOC right now, so I don't know if the whole thing was written by Jakub, or someone else and he just signed it. If someone was just listening to what he was saying, they might have written down anything. For example, on my grandfather's Social Security application his mother's maiden name was spelled Bortsky. I don't know if it was a boss or secretary that filled out the application, but the only thing that was his handwriting was his signature. It turns out that his mother's maiden name was Boczkaj.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 504
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:51 pm
Post subject:
Hi, I'm not exactly sure of what you meant by this: "Marcely Malanowski immigrated in 1904, Jakub in 1911 so it can't be his father." Maybe you meant that they would have emigrated together. There could be a number of scenarios. One is that you are correct, and it's just a different Marcel from the same area. Another is that he simply wanted to make some money, and take it back to Poland to buy land or whatever. He could have come with the intention of saving money to send for the rest of his family (like many, many men that I have seen on manifests). I've seen people go back and forth, I'm sure there are many stories...I actually am surprised when I see a father emigrating with his wife and children, I haven't found it to be common.
I haven't figured out Anastasia's surname. At first I thought those were dotted i s, and then I thought maybe they are diacritical marks...
I see now that the DOC is not in Jakub's handwriting (except for his signature), so you can't take the spelling of his surname by someone else, or the village names too seriously. I don't think they were concerned about getting that right. Hopefully it would be correct on his final papers.
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:27 pm
Post subject:
| Cheri Vanden Berg wrote: | | Stamperanon wrote: | | OK, I'm sitting here thinking and it just dawned on me. On the ship's Manifest, the last column is Place of Birth. Country - Russia, City or Town - Zuromin. It doesn't even correlate with the Brarac or Sizrac on the DOC. Should I ask about the name in the last post in the name forum? |
Hi, I don't understand your last question.
Have you seen Zuromin on a map? It's 11.5 km (about 7 miles) from the Przeradz Wielki that Elzbieta mentioned (Elzbieta, you are very smart!) As far a Brarac and Sirzac go, I don't know. There aren't any villages with those spellings. Near Zuromin I notice a Brudnice, and Szoniec. I have no idea if those would be the towns.
I'm not looking at the DOC right now, so I don't know if the whole thing was written by Jakub, or someone else and he just signed it. If someone was just listening to what he was saying, they might have written down anything. For example, on my grandfather's Social Security application his mother's maiden name was spelled Bortsky. I don't know if it was a boss or secretary that filled out the application, but the only thing that was his handwriting was his signature. It turns out that his mother's maiden name was Boczkaj. |
My question is, should I go to the name forum and see if anyone can help with trying to figure out Anastacia's last name. I know how people would misspell names. They would write phonetically . You should see the different misspelled last names on the siblings birth certificate. The only way I knew they were mine, my grandmothers name was always spelled correct. How can you mess up Danik?
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:11 pm
Post subject:
| Cheri Vanden Berg wrote: | Hi, I'm not exactly sure of what you meant by this: "Marcely Malanowski immigrated in 1904, Jakub in 1911 so it can't be his father." Maybe you meant that they would have emigrated together. There could be a number of scenarios. One is that you are correct, and it's just a different Marcel from the same area. Another is that he simply wanted to make some money, and take it back to Poland to buy land or whatever. He could have come with the intention of saving money to send for the rest of his family (like many, many men that I have seen on manifests). I've seen people go back and forth, I'm sure there are many stories...I actually am surprised when I see a father emigrating with his wife and children, I haven't found it to be common.
I haven't figured out Anastasia's surname. At first I thought those were dotted i s, and then I thought maybe they are diacritical marks...
I see now that the DOC is not in Jakub's handwriting (except for his signature), so you can't take the spelling of his surname by someone else, or the village names too seriously. I don't think they were concerned about getting that right. Hopefully it would be correct on his final papers. |
Never thought of his father coming out here first.
When I first realized that Kuba Malanowski was my grandfather on Ellis Island, was always looking for Jacob, I had to go back a few times to look through all the names, I ran across a name from my mothers side of family. Funny how two families were on the same boat at the same time. Wonder if they ever crossed paths on that boat.
I did order an index report from USCIS today so hopefully they will have something on my grandfather.
Thank you Cheri! I appreciate all your help.
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