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Kengal



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Replies: 17
Location: The Rock NSW Australia

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:39 am      Post subject: Translation please?
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Could someone please translate this Latin phrase for me?

"Viro in Omnes Hominum Kontiones Justo" Confused

I am currently reading through references to a particular surname in the Golden Book of Polish Gentry (via an on-line service provided by the Warsaw Library). I would appreciate any help offered.

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drphil



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Replies: 38
Location: Carrollton, KY

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:18 pm      Post subject:
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You might try an online Latin to English translation. Use Goole to search for a free Latin to English translator. Hominum may be " of men" and Justo may refer to "justice".

Phil
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NancyM
PolishOrigins Matka Chrzestna


Joined: 14 Dec 2007
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Location: Massachusetts, USA

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:54 pm      Post subject: Re: Translation please?
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Kengal wrote:
"Viro in Omnes Hominum Kontiones Justo"


I can't say that I have found a translation for you, but after giving it a try myself, I asked the question on another forum where there are many multilingual members. One person there said that she asked her son - a Latin teacher - who replied that he also is a bit stumped by this one. Here is his reply:

"My best guess is "to/for the/a just man (viro justo) in all assemblies/meetings (omnes kontiones) of men (hominum). I'm not sure what "kontiones" would translate to, as it depends heavily on time period and location. And I've never seen it spelled with a K rather than a C."

Here are some of the other responses:

"One sister of mine (we all did Latin at school) says it would roughly translate to
Good luck/life To All Mankind. Like something you would get in a Christmas Greeting Card.
But its definately a language mix, not solely Latin"

"I found one translator that insisted that Viro means Boatmen - which didn't help!
An extended meaning of Justo - is a "salt of the earth" type person - stand no nonsense = fair!
Leading to the idea that the hero in question is a man of the people!"

I have given them a bit more context now, by saying it was likely the motto of a noble Polish family, but have not heard back from the Latin teacher's mother.

I think that Zenon has a contact in the heraldry circles - perhaps he can help.
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Zenon
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:34 am      Post subject:
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To add more context I checked that the sentence "viro in omnes hominum conditiones justo" was inscribed on a tombstone.

This is how one lady in Polish Genealogical Society forum translated it:

"To the nonpareil for all people gatherings man".
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NancyM
PolishOrigins Matka Chrzestna


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:33 am      Post subject:
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An inscription on a tombstone - not a family motto - that is interesting to know!

and the fifth word is "conditiones" (not kontiones?)

The new translation still does not make any sense to me ~ we are still translating the words but not comprehending the meaning.
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:42 am      Post subject:
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In Polish the old sentence does make sense: "Mężowi słusznemu na wszelkie zgromadzenia ludzi".

I think it is more now about my translation. I will try to say in descriptive and contemporary language form: "In honor of a man who was extraordinary (outstanding or right) in all kind of assemblies (congregations)".

Yes, the fifth word is "conditiones".
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NancyM
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:13 am      Post subject:
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Dziekuje, Zenon - now it is becoming clearer!

Would this inscription have been written in both Latin and Polish on the tombstone? Or perhaps the person in the PGS forum translated the Latin to Polish?

Someone in my other forum suggested that the sense (not the literal translation) of the sentence would be "first among equals" and your version is similar to that ("extraordinary in all assemblies").
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:50 am      Post subject:
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The person on PGS genealodzy.pl translated it from Latin into Polish.
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