rsowaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 177
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:46 pm
Post subject: Help with reading a surname
My grandfather (Stanley Sowa) married Estelle Polek in Chicago in 1918. The parish register lists Stanley's mother's name as "Frances Mendzela", or possibly "Mendgela". But the handwriting is clear, so there is little question of her surname.
Then I recently got a copy of the parish register for the 1907 marriage of Stanley's brother John Sowa to Agnes Pelc, at Sacred Heart Church, Braddock, PA.
I have attached the image, and circled his mother's surname, because I cannot make any sense out of what it says. It is clearly NOT Mendzela, or anything like it. It looks to me like maybe "Cseleń ", or maybe something else. I am leaning toward the possibility that one of the parish register records is in error. I have found some pretty suspicious parish records before, so that wouldn't surprise me.
Could someone look at the part I have circled in red and see if they can interpret what is written?
Thanks in advance,
Richard
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with reading a surname
| rsowa wrote: | My grandfather (Stanley Sowa) married Estelle Polek in Chicago in 1918. The parish register lists Stanley's mother's name as "Frances Mendzela", or possibly "Mendgela". But the handwriting is clear, so there is little question of her surname.
Then I recently got a copy of the parish register for the 1907 marriage of Stanley's brother John Sowa to Agnes Pelc, at Sacred Heart Church, Braddock, PA.
I have attached the image, and circled his mother's surname, because I cannot make any sense out of what it says. It is clearly NOT Mendzela, or anything like it. It looks to me like maybe "Cseleń ", or maybe something else. I am leaning toward the possibility that one of the parish register records is in error. I have found some pretty suspicious parish records before, so that wouldn't surprise me.
Could someone look at the part I have circled in red and see if they can interpret what is written?
Thanks in advance,
Richard |
Richard,
I read it Cieleń, it sounds Polish,
-- 428 persons with that name in today Poland
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/ciele%25C5%2584.html
Concerning Mendzela
-- 4 persons
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/mendzela.html
and no Mendgela
I was trying to imagine how handwritten "Ci" could make an "M" - well, that is possible with the left leg of C.
Actually it all depends if the scribe was Polish speaker or not, and the deciphering person as well. Over past few weeks I have been deciphering Polish text with unfamiliar names, written by Polish scribe two hundred years ago, and can tell you that I was making strange mistakes. I could not rely on any etymology.
Best,
Elzbieta
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:26 pm
Post subject:
Families were often known by two names. I have Stawarz alias Cwik and Madej alias Knych in my ancestry. Also, individuals were sometimes alternately referred to with their deceased biological father's name and their adopted stepfather's name.
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rsowaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 177
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:21 pm
Post subject:
| pogonowski wrote: | | Families were often known by two names. I have Stawarz alias Cwik and Madej alias Knych in my ancestry. Also, individuals were sometimes alternately referred to with their deceased biological father's name and their adopted stepfather's name. |
Hmm...that is an interesting possibility. These records were reported by both brothers, and they were both reporting their mother's maiden name. The only reason why they would report different surnames might be is if one of them had been adopted, which I am pretty certain was not the case.
Thanks everyone for your comments, but I think I need to chalk this one up as one of those odd things I have found that won't be resolved till I find some more data...perhaps a marriage record for Jacob Sowa, or birth/baptism records for Stanley and John in or around Sietesz.
Richard
Last edited by rsowa on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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MDuplagaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Replies: 103
Back to top |
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:07 am
Post subject: Help with reading a surname
Richard,
I think the name you have boxed could be Czelen, as I've read in one of my books that "CZ" is a Special letter combination. I have a surname of interest that contains a 'z' and have seen the 'z' written like the one in your box, so it was my first consideration when I saw your note.
The geographic map does show #1 person in Poland with this surname in the region of: Naklo n Notecia
In trying to figure out the reasons for different names-be sure to reconsider Illegitimate Births and Second marriages, besides adoption. Perhaps the 2 brothers had the same father but different mothers. Francisca/Frances is a very common first name for women in some regions of Poland. Although I often see references to women being widowed and left with several children to provide for and they will remarry, I might also imagine that some women died in child birth, but there seem to be less references to that scenario.
good luck,
MaryAnne
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:42 pm
Post subject:
Richard,
I believe that the name is Cieleń. When my great great-grandmother, Katarzyna (Jezowski/Jzowski) Zabron left Sietesz, Poland and came to the USA in 1914, the name she gave as her contact back in Sietesz was her sister Anna Cieleń. I have seen other references to the Cieleń name in Sietesz.
Also, I noticed that you said that your grandfather's brother was married at Sacred Heart Church in Braddock, PA in 1907. My great-grandparents, Wladyslaw and Katarzyna (Zabron) Piorkowski, who were both born in Sietesz in 1886 were married at Sacred Heart Church in Braddock, PA on January 21, 1907. What was the exact date in 1907 that your grandfather's brother was married there?
Regarding the name Mendzela could it possibly be Medrala (or Mendrla?) My great-grandmother had a 1st cousin Jozef Jezowski from Sietesz who was married to a Julia Medrala (or Mendrla?). I have seen multiple places of birth for Julia including Sietesz, Pantalowice or Zagurz.
The name Pelc is another one that exists in Sietesz. One of my great-grandfather's cousins with the Piorkowski last name who came from Sietesz and then lived in Utica, NY had a married last name of Pelc.
Tom
Last edited by TPiorkowski on Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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rsowaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 177
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USABack to top |
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:10 pm
Post subject:
Thanks Tom...to answer your questions...
John Sowa married Agnes Pelc on 25 Nov 1907 at Sacred Heart Church. John worked in the steel industry for about a decade before leaving Braddock and moving to Michigan around 1911-1914.
I have quite a few relations that had the surname "Piotrowski"...which is close to the spelling of your Piorkowski. I know my spelling is correct for my ancestors, because there were at least a dozen of them in a lot of records...all spelled the same.
Attached is a portion of the parish register for my grandfather Stanley Sowa' marriage in Chicago (St Hedwig). It looks like Mendgela to me. But to be honest, it's the ONLY document I have found anywhere that lists his mothers maiden name. Similarly, the only document for John Sowa that lists his mother's maiden name was his marriage record in Braddock.
I have talked about this issue with my uncle (Stanley's son), and he thinks there is a good chance that Jacob married Franciszka Cieleń (or Czeleń) and had John. There is a six year gap before my grandfather was born. So my uncle thinks Jacob's first wife died and he then married Franciszka Mengela before Stanley was born.
If I could find some parish records for Sietesz it would solve everything...but in the meantime...oh well. 
thanks again Tom,
Richard
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:13 pm
Post subject:
Richard,
It could be possible that my great-grandparents knew John Sowa and his wife. They all lived in the same places at the exact same times. My great-grandparents moved to Michigan in 1913. First they lived in Hamtramck and then by the early 1920's they settled in Essexville which is right next to Bay City.
Twice I have written to the Catholic Church in Sietesz asking to have some records looked up and both times I have received no response at all. I recently hired a professional genealogist who looked up records for me in the Catholic Archdiocese of Przemyśl. They have copies of the records found in Church in Sietesz for the years 1826 through 1889. The information that he found allowed me to make a major breakthrough in my research and I was able to go back several generations beyond my great-grandparents. I will send you a private message with the contact information for the genealogist that I used in case you are interested in using his services. He is very trustworthy and is very knowledgeable about the information contained in the old records.
Tom
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:29 am
Post subject:
Richard, if I can help with my Polish old eyes, I see your Frances - Franciszka's family name as: M E N D Z E L A.
As Polish etymologist Prof. Zofia Kaleta named her book as "The surname as a cultural value and an ethnic heritage, tracing your Polish roots", let's try to tell you some information basing on her, and Prof. Kazimierz Rymut's base etymological works:
The Polish surname Mendzela is patronymic in origin, derives from the Germany language, and name Menzel - noted in old Poland from the year 1390. In this surname branch we can also find: Mendzel [noted from 1681], Menzel, Menzla, Mencyl [1349], Mancel [1415], Moncel, Mandzel, Mandzla, Mandzlik, etc.
Basing on the surnale location in the present-day Poland [census 1990-as below, and 2001-see as above given by our friend Elzbieta] we see the surname Mendzela can be found in the southern part of Poland, thus in the 19th century as Galicia province of the Austria-Hungary Empire:
Nazwisko Ogolna liczba Rozmieszczenie
Surname Totally Location-main Polish local town/area
Mendzela 6 Bs:1, Pr:3, Tb:2 = 1 in Bialystok/area NE Poland, 3 in Przemysl/area SE Poland, and 2 in Tarnobrzeg/area SE Poland.
source: www.herby.com.pl
Thus almost all roots of the Mendzela are going to SE Poland, Galicia in the 19th century, and the Polish Mendzela's as the ancestors of one of the many settlers in the past centuries going from Germany, and settled in this part of Europe, taking there with them their rich economic experience, with cultural and religious heritage.
Small confirmation from American databases: in EI Database we can find 2 immigrants surnamed Mendzela 100 years ago going to NY port from Pantalowice, and Laskowo, present SE Poland:
1 Mendzela, Josef Pantalowice, Austria 26 1886 1912
2 Mendzela, Wladyslaw Laskowko, Galicia 18 1893 1911
In the present day Poland from Polish white book I see 2 Mendzela's living in the SE Poland:
1. Jozef Mendzela, Stalowa Wola, SE Poland
2. Leon Mendzela, Stubno, SE Poland
With the best good luck!
Tad
Warsaw, Poland
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rsowaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 177
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:55 am
Post subject:
Thanks Tad! That is really fascinating information.
Richard
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:01 am
Post subject:
Richard,
I noticed a birth record for a Jan Mendzela on the same page for some other Sietesz Church records that I had obtained from the Diocese of Przemyśl.
If I am translating it correctly, I believe that this record says the following: Jan Mendzela born May 16, 1841 in Sietesz. Father: Michal Mendzela Mother: Katarzyna Rozek daughter of Michal Rozek. The name Marg Nykiel would be the midwife. Her name appears on other birth records I have. The word "agricola" is farmer.
Not sure if this person is related to your Mendzela family. I thought I will pass it on to you in case it was.
Tom
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