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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:23 pm      Post subject: Genealogogy Research 201
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Stanley.

The link Gilberto posted for you lists microfilms of church records of the parish of Zborow. The microfilms were made of the manuscript records in the archive of the archdiocese of Lubaczow and records in the Ukrainian state archive. The records are available on film and not online so your next step would be to go to the LDS (Mormon church) site (www.familysearch.org/films/) register an account for yourself, pick out a family history center near you (from the list on the LDS site) and order the films which cover the years you would like to research. When the films arrive at the center you picked out, go there and one of their volunteers will help you figure out what to do to actually view the films. The cost to rent a film is $7.50 for 90 days. There are four films which cover all the records filmed for Zborow. The film notes state that the records are in Latin and in Polish. When your ancestors lived there the area was politically part of the Austrian Empire so the records should be in Latin in the columnar format. My guess is that the records in Polish would date from after WWI.

Your ancestors considered themselves Polish but at the time they left Europe they would have been ethnic Poles who were citizens of and owed allegiance to the Emperor of Austria. Prior to the Partitions that area was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. After 1795 it was part of the Austrian Empire until after WWI. Then it was part of the Republic of Poland until after WWII when it became part of Ukraine.

The LDS Family Search Site has plenty of articles which should help give direction to your research and will explain some strategies for research. Simply put, genealogy research is no different from any other serious research---start with what is known, work back from the known to the unknown, document your sources, and enjoy the fruits of your labors. The place to start in the films would be to search for the birth record of your grandfather and see where the information in that record leads you.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Dave
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:31 pm      Post subject:
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MegSondey wrote:
"Ukrainians" who are Poles..... well, that is my challenge. My grandfather, Michael Sondey (Sadej) was absolutely Polish and spoke Polish. But.... the place he is from is now in Ukraine! No, he was never "Ukrainian" nor did he ever claim to be one. But when he and some of his siblings emigrated it was considered part of the Austro-Hungarian empire and many of the records list them as "Austrian." I would dearly love to learn more about the village where he grew up (Lukowies) and the larger city where apparently some of the family may have lived ("Lemberg") but I'm still working on figuring out exactly which records where I need to consult! I have found some LDS records of Lukowies and that's what I'm working on right now.... absolutely tons of "Sadej" family members there. I just need to get back to the LDS library near my hometown to go through the records some more.


Meg,

Just in case you don't know, Lemberg is the german name por Lwów (polish), or Lviv (ukrainain).

Gilberto
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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:16 pm      Post subject: Re: Genealogogy Research 201
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dnowicki wrote:
Stanley.

The link Gilberto posted for you lists microfilms of church records of the parish of Zborow. The microfilms were made of the manuscript records in the archive of the archdiocese of Lubaczow and records in the Ukrainian state archive. The records are available on film and not online so your next step would be to go to the LDS (Mormon church) site (www.familysearch.org/films/) register an account for yourself, pick out a family history center near you (from the list on the LDS site) and order the films which cover the years you would like to research. When the films arrive at the center you picked out, go there and one of their volunteers will help you figure out what to do to actually view the films. The cost to rent a film is $7.50 for 90 days. There are four films which cover all the records filmed for Zborow. The film notes state that the records are in Latin and in Polish. When your ancestors lived there the area was politically part of the Austrian Empire so the records should be in Latin in the columnar format. My guess is that the records in Polish would date from after WWI.

Your ancestors considered themselves Polish but at the time they left Europe they would have been ethnic Poles who were citizens of and owed allegiance to the Emperor of Austria. Prior to the Partitions that area was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. After 1795 it was part of the Austrian Empire until after WWI. Then it was part of the Republic of Poland until after WWII when it became part of Ukraine.

The LDS Family Search Site has plenty of articles which should help give direction to your research and will explain some strategies for research. Simply put, genealogy research is no different from any other serious research---start with what is known, work back from the known to the unknown, document your sources, and enjoy the fruits of your labors. The place to start in the films would be to search for the birth record of your grandfather and see where the information in that record leads you.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.


Dave


Thank you Dave. The curious part of this is that my Grandmother clearly identified herself as Austrian Polish. My grandfather on the other hand on all records I have been able to see identified himself and ethnically Polish and nationality Russian. Nevertheless, we have a good lead from his papers and I will follow your instructions. Thanks again for taking the time.

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Wlaź - Lucków Górny
Petraszczuk - Khrabuzna, Ukraine
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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:42 am      Post subject:
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Alas, life is never simple. As I was doing designations on google map and seeking to gather information on Khrabużna (Chrabużna), lo and behold, I have two Khrabużna in the Ukraine. I'm not sure if I am being overly careful but we have this:

Khrabuzna (Xrabuzna, Chrabużna) as optional spellings.

Khrabuzna, Khmel'nyts'ka oblast, Ukraine

and

Khrabuzna, Ternopil's'ka oblast, Ukraine

Is there a way to simplify this? Would one be considered Russian and the other Austrian? Any guidance is appreciated.
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:23 pm      Post subject:
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Stanley

I don't have a detailed map showing the border line between Galicia and Russia.
The Chrasbuna near Urlow is in Ternopil Oblast. It is the one I found microfilmed by LDS.
This was surely Galicia: http://donhoward.net/genpoland/gal.htm.

Gilberto
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:23 pm      Post subject:
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singingfalls wrote:
Chrabużna

Khrabuzna, Khmel'nyts'ka oblast, Ukraine

or

Khrabuzna, Ternopil's'ka oblast, Ukraine

Is there a way to simplify this? Would one be considered Russian and the other Austrian? Any guidance is appreciated.


Stan,

I think that oblast Ternopil was part of Austro-Hungary, but not oblast Chmielnicki, which main city was Kamieniec Podolski.

First step:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zab%C3%B3r_austriacki
and its map
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zab%C3%B3r_austriacki#mediaviewer/File:Kr%C3%B3lestwo_Galicji.png
Ternopil is in grey sector, Chmielnicki is eastward.

Second step:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-W%C4%99gry
and its map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Andree48-2.jpg

Galicia is in the North-East.
Lemberg (Lwow, Lviv) geo position 49°51′0″N 24°01′0″E (near 50 x 42 on the map, blue with inclined stripes)
Ternopil is 49° 33′ N 25° 36′ E (near 50 x 44; blue with vertical stripes)
Kamieniec Podolski is outside of Austro-Hungary, a little above yellow Bukowina, in the white area, close to the map's border

The place Adamówka does not help much, because you have one near Lemberg/Lwow/Lviv, and one in Chmielnicki oblast (and one within today Poland).

To be explicit, I think your Chrabużna
is
Khrabuzna, Ternopil's'ka oblast, Ukraine (Ukrainian translitterated to Latin)
Храбузна, Тернопільська область, Україна (Ukrainian Cyrillic)

Best,
Elzbieta
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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:41 pm      Post subject:
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Here is google earth and its placing of these villages. I don't know if this helps or not?

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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:01 pm      Post subject:
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Magroski49 wrote:
Stanley

I don't have a detailed map showing the border line between Galicia and Russia.
The Chrasbuna near Urlow is in Ternopil Oblast. It is the one I found microfilmed by LDS.
This was surely Galicia: http://donhoward.net/genpoland/gal.htm.

Gilberto



It seems there is a problem with the URL for me. Is it correct? Since this will not be resolved by me guessing I will go with your advisement.


Thank you again Gilberto.

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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:12 pm      Post subject:
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Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

Stan,

I think that oblast Ternopil was part of Austro-Hungary, but not oblast Chmielnicki, which main city was Kamieniec Podolski.

First step:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zab%C3%B3r_austriacki
and its map
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zab%C3%B3r_austriacki#mediaviewer/File:Kr%C3%B3lestwo_Galicji.png
Ternopil is in grey sector, Chmielnicki is eastward.

Second step:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-W%C4%99gry
and its map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Andree48-2.jpg

Galicia is in the North-East.
Lemberg (Lwow, Lviv) geo position 49°51′0″N 24°01′0″E (near 50 x 42 on the map, blue with inclined stripes)
Ternopil is 49° 33′ N 25° 36′ E (near 50 x 44; blue with vertical stripes)
Kamieniec Podolski is outside of Austro-Hungary, a little above yellow Bukowina, in the white area, close to the map's border

The place Adamówka does not help much, because you have one near Lemberg/Lwow/Lviv, and one in Chmielnicki oblast (and one within today Poland).

To be explicit, I think your Chrabużna
is
Khrabuzna, Ternopil's'ka oblast, Ukraine (Ukrainian translitterated to Latin)
Храбузна, Тернопільська область, Україна (Ukrainian Cyrillic)

Best,
Elzbieta


Yes, the Adamówka of which I refer is definitely the one in Poland. I am currently in contact with a relative there. Very informative post. Thank you. Gilberto is leaning toward the Khrabuzna you recommend also. I will start there.

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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:50 pm      Post subject:
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Corrected URL from Gilberto:
http://www.donhoward.net/genpoland/gal.htm
(NO dot at the end)

Elzbieta
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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:28 pm      Post subject:
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I have to say that now I am thinking of the Lord's words when he said "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows." Wow! What a history this nation has had. I have been a shepherd and small farmer (among my means of livelihood) and when I look at the images of Poland and how rich it is with water and open farm land my head shakes in amazement. This is why it is so coveted by the nations. The turmoil of it's history seems endless and it still is not entirely at rest.

Thank you Elzbieta. I should have noted that but didn't.
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:36 am      Post subject:
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singingfalls wrote:
I have to say that now I am thinking of the Lord's words when he said "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows." Wow! What a history this nation has had. I have been a shepherd and small farmer (among my means of livelihood) and when I look at the images of Poland and how rich it is with water and open farm land my head shakes in amazement. This is why it is so coveted by the nations. The turmoil of it's history seems endless and it still is not entirely at rest.

Thank you Elzbieta. I should have noted that but didn't.


Just in case you haven't read it yet,, let me suggest you "God's playground vol. I e II, by Normam Davies.

Gilberto
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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:59 am      Post subject:
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Gilberto, I haven't read it yet but will certainly keep it in mind. I see it has very high ratings on line. Looking forward.

I see you are in Brazil. I had a dear friend who was born in Poland and was the only survivor of his family during the Holocaust. He went to Russia, fled Siberia, did Aliyah, met his wife, had two children and went to Brazil. There must be many stories of those born in Poland in Brazil.

Stan Petrowski

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singingfalls
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Post Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:15 pm      Post subject:
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Latest findings via email from Ukraine.

Dear friends. Ludwik was born on 20th December 1895 in the village Храбузна (Hrabuuzna) of Полонне (Polonne) district. Today this village exists in Khmelnitsky region. The first record of the birth of Ludwik (# 130a ) was made on December 26, 1895, in the book of the (Laboonsk) Catholic parish. It means, Ludwik was Polіsh. (Church of St. Anna in the city Polonne . The Priest is the father Alexander Novoselskiy). Hraboozna is the ancient settlement , in 1620 belonged to a famous educator , Prince of Ostrog (Polish). No doubt we must have been surfs.

Very exciting! I wonder if any survived the Stalin purges of the 40's?

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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:18 am      Post subject:
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singingfalls wrote:
Latest findings via email from Ukraine.

Dear friends. Ludwik was born on 20th December 1895 in the village Храбузна (Hrabuuzna) of Полонне (Polonne) district. Today this village exists in Khmelnitsky region. The first record of the birth of Ludwik (# 130a ) was made on December 26, 1895, in the book of the (Laboonsk) Catholic parish. It means, Ludwik was Polіsh. (Church of St. Anna in the city Polonne . The Priest is the father Alexander Novoselskiy). Hraboozna is the ancient settlement , in 1620 belonged to a famous educator , Prince of Ostrog (Polish). No doubt we must have been surfs.

Very exciting! I wonder if any survived the Stalin purges of the 40's?


Stanley,
This is really very good news! Congratulations!

Gilberto
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