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BobK
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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Replies: 231
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:10 pm      Post subject: Niewiera -- Polish or Lithuanian? or ?
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My mother's surname was Niewiera. Her mother was Rosila Jakuc and was born in Niecziecza about 1883 near Lida. I was told my grandmother was Polish and she married Joseph Niewiera, a Lithuanian. And that is nearly all I know.

I searched the Ellis Island database and never found my mother listed or her mother's. I had no trouble finding Joseph Niewiera, finding "Osip' as his given name. (I assume that's Lithuanian or is it Polish? It is a very uncommon name).

Recently, using the Stephan Morse web site: http://stevemorse.org/ which accepts name beginnings to search the same E.I. Database. I found them! They came together in 1913, a year after my grandfather, and both my mother and grandmother's given names and ages matched, but their suname listed as Niewiervowa !

Was this a foulup on translation (the ship manifest is missing, but the text manifest and passenger names agree). OR is this a language ending denoting a married woman's modification of her husband's surname?

Bob K.
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Zenon
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1472
Location: Poland

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:11 am      Post subject:
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BobK wrote:
I had no trouble finding Joseph Niewiera, finding "Osip' as his given name. (I assume that's Lithuanian or is it Polish? It is a very uncommon name)


Osip (or in Russian Осип) is in Russian Joseph, Polish Józef.
BobK wrote:
Recently, using the Stephan Morse web site: http://stevemorse.org/ which accepts name beginnings to search the same E.I. Database. I found them! They came together in 1913, a year after my grandfather, and both my mother and grandmother's given names and ages matched, but their suname listed as Niewiervowa !


Niewierowa is wife of Niewiera and Niewierówna is daughter of Niewiera. Our beautiful Polish language again Smile Exclamation.

For all, if you are interested in other Polish language nuances visit other threads like: http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=358 , http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=153#153 or http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=215 .
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BobK
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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
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Location: Portland, Oregon USA

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:27 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you Zeonon, and I apologize for reasking that question. I forgot to add your original answer to my notes and I deserved that pointer to the "other" language questions where you already answered me Embarassed
I assume that ending is no longer used? Was that used only under certain circumstances? On two crossings, he named his wife as I would have expected, Rozalia Niewiera.

"Osip" declared himself Lithuanian on his first crossing. On his second, he was Polish. This is a minor problem. It's when names of the emigrant or their village are hard to read, or mistranslated, that problems arise.

When untangling mis-translations of unusual handwriting, some very odd and unexpected combinations appear. From other readings, I've been assured that the Ellis Island people didn't change people's names as all their information was recorded upon departure, not arrival.
The combination of illiterate emigrants, or different languages between emigrant and information recorder - is then combined with a tired volunteer that is reading and typing up that handwriting years later.. makes for so many puzzles to be solved.
I've found about 14 Ellis Island ship manifests of my relatives and each leaves me with more questions that need to be resolved.

(BTW, for others looking for those manifests, Ellis Island web pages 'lock' you out of copying it to your computer, but Windows 7 has a simple 'screen snapshot' built into it. Or there is free software (i.e. IRFANVIEW) that will do it on other releases. For me, I go into the Internet Explorer's temp files and find the manifest names "TIF2GIF[x].GIF", where x starts with '1' and increments each time a new manifest is read down to that temp file)

Bob K.
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Zenon
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1472
Location: Poland

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Post Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:28 am      Post subject:
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BobK wrote:
Thank you Zeonon, and I apologize for reasking that question. I forgot to add your original answer to my notes and I deserved that pointer to the "other" language questions where you already answered me


No problem, I am sure the "Polish language" issue is worth repeating Smile .

BobK wrote:
I assume that ending is no longer used? Was that used only under certain circumstances? On two crossings, he named his wife as I would have expected, Rozalia Niewiera.


It is rarely used now mainly by older people or "for fun" to tease women. No, it wasn't used under any certain circumstances, it depended on language habits of a given person or was used interchangeably.

BobK wrote:
"Osip" declared himself Lithuanian on his first crossing. On his second, he was Polish.


Trying to answer your question from the topic line "Niewiera -- Polish or Lithuanian?":

Niewier-, Niewiera from Polish nie wierzyć- „not to believe”.

In 2002 there were 72 people bearing the surname Niewiera living in Poland. Detailed map can be found here https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Niewiera . However, there are also many Niewieras living in Germany, check the World Names Profiler: http://www.publicprofiler.org/worldnames/ .

BobK wrote:

(BTW, for others looking for those manifests, Ellis Island web pages 'lock' you out of copying it to your computer, but Windows 7 has a simple 'screen snapshot' built into it. Or there is free software (i.e. IRFANVIEW) that will do it on other releases. For me, I go into the Internet Explorer's temp files and find the manifest names "TIF2GIF[x].GIF", where x starts with '1' and increments each time a new manifest is read down to that temp file)


And you can always use the old good "print scr" function working on many systems (if not on all).
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violin75



Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Replies: 73

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Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:52 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you gentlemen for discussing this info, it has helped me. I am currently viewing my ancestors records in Poland by way of the LDS library. Right now, I am looking at Moszczenica, Gorlice, Malopolska, area and I have came across many times where the women's last name would have a "A" at the end but the fathers name has a "I". for example, Piotrowski but the woman has Piotrowska. Also, many women have the ending of zonka or onka at the ending. What does this mean? Is this because of the naming language? It confused me but I just added the name to my "possible" list because it kept appearing so many times, it intrigued me.
Now I understand why my great grandmother returned to America after visting her family in Poland in 1926 as Piotrowska instead of Piotrowski.
Here is a link from the lds site that helps with understanding Polish writing in documents. It takes you through steps to help you understand the different ways letters were formed . It helped me a great deal. I couldnt believe when it showed me that an "A" was a "T".

http://broadcast.lds.org/elearning/FHD/Community/FHL/Handwriting/Polish/Lesson1/player.html
I hope this helps.
Many Blessings,
Brandy
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