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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:49 am Post subject:

Sunny,
I actually don't know specifically what "papers" of identification were needed. I have read about people using the papers of someone else. I guess what was included in the papers would depend on the time frame. There is a discussion at Polish Origins you might be interested in: http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=1775&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=russian+draft+conscription&start=0
There are other discussions you can find online. I would think that if he did desert, it would be really dangerous for him to go back...
Cheri
P.S. I just looked up the history of passports and found this - "Passports were not generally required for international travel until the first world war. It was in the early 20th century that passports as we would recognize them today began to be used. The first modern British passport, the product of the British Nationality and Status Aliens Act 1914, consisted of a single page, folded into eight and held together with a cardboard cover. It was valid for two years and, as well as a photograph and signature, featured a personal description, including details such as "shape of face", "complexion" and "features". Following an agreement among the League of Nations to standardize passports, the famous "old blue" was issued in 1920." But what would be needed to travel around, or leave Russian Poland, I don't know. Also, it seems like some identification was needed for the ship. I searched for Ellis Island and Identification papers and found this: "Nor were inspections the brief interactions we associate with passport control in today’s airports. Generally they lasted twenty minutes or more, as inspectors sought to identify those at high risk of becoming wards of the state. But perhaps most significantly, Ellis Island officers never wrote down immigrants’ names. Instead, they worked from ships’ manifests, which were themselves compiled by local officials at the point of embarkation. Even overseas, passenger lists were likewise not generated simply by asking immigrants for their names. Rather, they were drawn from passports, exit visas, and other identification papers. The reason for this was simple: Errors cost the shipping company money. A mistake on a manifest, such as a name that was not corroborated by other documentation (whether legal or fraudulent), would result in the forced deportation of the person in question back to his point of departure—at the shipping company’s expense."

Cheri Vanden Berg
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject:

Sunny,
I just remembered what Dave recently wrote on this forum
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=3558&highlight=draft
This is the part that may interest you:
"There could have been a number of reasons why Mateusz left Galicia and resided in the Prov. of Posen/Poznan aka the German Partition. He may have been looking for work or he may have done a preemptive move to avoid conscription into the Austrian army since he was near draft age or any number of other reasons. There are two villages named Jablonowo in what at the time was the Prov. of Posen. The idea that he had to reside in German Poland for a time in order to get on a ship is not very likely. Since both Galicia and the Congress Kingdom (Russian Poland) were landlocked the difficult part of the journey for young men of draft age was crossing the border into the Prov. of Posen. To cross at a legal border crossing a man would need to produce proof of military service. Men who had not served in the military sometimes crossed using another man's documents or else hired a "guide" who would get him across the border at a point distant from the legal crossing areas. Once in German Poland the only thing needed was a steamship ticket. If that had not been purchased back in the village where he lived, a man would usually purchase the ticket from one of the local immigrant ship agents in the Prov. of Posen so that everything would be ready when he arrived at the port of embarkation. The two most frequently used ports for Poles were Hamburg and Bremen. The steamship lines were interested in getting passengers on board who would not be rejected once they arrived in the USA and the companies did what they could to make it as easy as possible for their customers---after all, the immigrant trade was the bread and butter of the steamship lines and the civil authorities in the port cities were not looking to keep people from embarking since the immigrant trade was a major economic engine for the port areas."

Iwona Lubczyńska

Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Replies: 12
Location: Poland
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:23 am Post subject:

Francis was descended from the village of Czarne (in English means Black). Where are you from? from Czarnego. I watched the manifesto. When Marianna was the daughter of Frances, it could not be called Kowalonka (a variety maiden name Kowal -English->Smith) It certainly is not Kowalska. I think it's Kowalewska.
The Polish names do not have written the letter "v" (only Latin and German translations replace "w" to "v").
It's hard to read the name, because the German officer who saved them, did not speak Polish and enrolled as heard. Hence the glitches. Polish for the Germans was very difficult. You need to check how your ancestors wrote down the name in America (as well as it pronounced). Then you will find the correct form.
Francis, Marianna is one of the most popular names in Poland nineteenth century. Surnames derived from Kowal were also very common. If you do not you will find more details, it will be difficult to determine the actual ancestors.
Village called Czarne are few in Poland. See you on the goggles map few of them:
Czarne, Szczecinek
Czarne, Wisła

(It is not village Czarna becouse the question where you from, is responsible: from Czarnej; Czarna- Czarnej but Czarne- Czarnego)

Very often to America he drove the husband and his wife affix after a few years (five, seven or even 12!). It happened that trip caused the breakup. Poland did not recognize marriages American, so often occurred to bigamy. America is also not checked whether the groom has left the country of his wife.

sorry for my English;]

Cheri Vanden Berg
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:05 am Post subject:

Iwona,
I understand what you wrote, and it's very interesting. Now I see that what the indexer thought was the letter i, it does not have a dot above it. I also see in the names Franziska, Marianna, and Martin, the letter r is not well formed, and could maybe be mistaken for an i as well. The village name as written then looks like Czernego, and not Czarnego. I do understand how village names change depending how it is used in a sentence, but usually on a ship manifest the village names are written as they would be on a map (except of course there are mistakes). Of course Sunny needs to get more documentation, and it will be interesting to find out if you are correct. I do think you must be correct about the name Kowalewska, though in the U.S. people used variations of what the name had been in Poland. I am very curious about what village they were from, and hopefully that will be written correctly on some document from the U.S.
Cheri

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Iwona Lubczyńska

Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Replies: 12
Location: Poland
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject:

In Poland, you will not find a town with the end of the name, because it is- variety noun - grammatical category.
Perhaps Francis said the official full view, it was therefore concluded grammatical category, rather than a geographical name. This is just my guess.
You can search all a village in Poland at this link:
http://miasta.mapa.panoramafirm.pl/?l=C

There is one problem that I notice in the forum. Everyone thinks that their name comes from the name of the village, with whose ancestors come from. It's not true. It is quite often agree in the case of noble families, but not to the peasant. The names come from executed occupations, nicknames, character traits, advantages, disadvantages, characteristics, etc. You can not say that all the people named Kowal or Kowalski or Kowalewski come from Kowalewo.

Magroski49
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:22 pm Post subject:

Sunny, Cheri and Iwona

One line below Maryanna, there is a Marcin Zenda, also from Czarnego. That surname is not common, so I took a quick look at Geneteka. I found few Zenda in KP (Wielki Komórsk), LB (Bilgoraj), MZ (Blédow), Podlaskie (Lipsk), SK (Zborowek) and WM (Morliny). Not any Marcin.

Then I did a search in www.stevemorse.org for people coming from Czernego. There is about a dozen. At least one of them (Chodorowski) mentions his nearest relative in the old country as "Czernego, Suwalki). I think an idea would be to track those people who came from Czarnego, by checking the friends /relatives they were going to meet in the USA. Maybe the ship manifest of those friends/relatives could elucidade the location of this Czernego.

Gilberto

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