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[email protected]



Joined: 05 Feb 2020
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Location: Scotland

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:44 pm      Post subject: Marriage research - Jasinski/Jedraszek
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First time post so hello all.

I gave up on the Polish research of my family for years as it proved very difficult. I started anew last year and have since traced cousins whom I never knew existed before. As good as this is, it has given me more questions.

A newly found cousin has been searching for these records also and we just cannot find what we are looking for. So, thankfully I have found this forum.

This relates to my great-grandparents:

Wacław Jasiński was born on 28 September 1899 in Szczutowo (Russia at the time). His parents were Andrzej and Marianna (Mrozinska).
Jadwiga Jedraszek was born on 20 March 1900 in Brzozie Lubawskie (Prussian or German at the time). Her parents were Franceszek and Ewa (Gonska).

The above is taken from their death certificates. We haven't started looking yet for any record of their births as it seems sensible to find marriage first.

The next record I have of them is the birth certificate of my grandfather, Jan, who was born in Łaszewo in 1925.

My grandfather was Roman Catholic, and I am 99% sure the rest of his family would have been too.

It seems apparent they always keep around Brodnica county (whether pre-1918, the inter-war era, during WW2 or afterwards), but a record of their marriage just cannot be found (by me).

Can anyone help at all?

Wacław did re-marry after Jadwiga died.


Last edited by [email protected] on Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:58 pm      Post subject: Re: Marriage research - Jasinski/Jedraszek
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[email protected] wrote:
First time post so hello all.

I gave up on the Polish research of my family for years as it proved very difficult. I started anew last year and have since traced cousins whom I never knew existed before. As good as this is, it has given me more questions.

A newly found cousin has been searching for these records also and we just cannot find what we are looking for. So, thankfully I have found this forum ????

This relates to my great-grandparents:

Wacław Jasiński was born on 28 September 1899 in Szczutowo (Russia at the time). His parents were Andrzej and Marianna (Mrozinska).
Jadwiga Jedraszek was born on 20 March 1900 in Brzozie Lubawskie (Prussian or German at the time). Her parents were Franceszek and Ewa (Gonska).

The above is taken from their death certificates. We haven't started looking yet for any record of their births as it seems sensible to find marriage first.

The next record I have of them is the birth certificate of my grandfather, Jan, who was born in Łaszewo in 1925.

My grandfather was Roman Catholic, and I am 99% sure the rest of his family would have been too.

It seems apparent they always keep around Brodnica county (whether pre-1918, the inter-war era, during WW2 or afterwards), but a record of their marriage just cannot be found (by me).

Can anyone help at all?

Wacław did re-marry after Jadwiga died.


Hi,

Wacław’s parents were Andrzej Jasiński & Maryanna Mrozowska. The parish where his birth was recorded was Świedziebina. His parents married in 1880 in the parish of Wrocki. The record of their marriage is 1880 Akt #16. They had more children before Wacław was born (cf. attached image). Wacław’s birth record can be found on this site: https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.query=%2509%25C5%259Awiedziebnia&query.type=ALL&query.facetQuery.date=1899&query.dateFrom=1899&query.dateTo=1899&query.page=7&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=false&query.asc=false&query.sortMode=PUBLICATION&modal=254992263&personTree=false&goComments=false&searcher=big Attached is a scan of the record. It is Akt #157.

https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ would be the site to search for records for the Andrzej and Maryanna’s marriage & for the birth records of their other children.

Wishing you success in your search,

Dave



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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:11 pm      Post subject:
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Hello,

According to the Geneteka indexing, Waclaw Jacinski was born in 1899 in Świedziebnia, Gmina Świedziebnia, in Brodnica county. Here is the link to the Geneteka index:

http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=02kp&rid=B&search_lastname=Jasi%C5%84ski+&search_name=Waclaw&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=

Knowing this, I then went to the online parish books for Torun and searched for the 1899 parish book for Świedziebnia. Here is the link to the Torun database.

https://www.genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.type=ALL&query.facetQuery.date=1899&query.city=%25C5%259Awiedziebnia&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=true&query.asc=false&query.sortMode=PUBLICATION&modal=254992248&personTree=false&goComments=false&searcher=big&query.query

After searching for record #157 (per Geneteka index) in the 1899 book, I found his birth record.

Attached is the birth record for Waclaw; it is # 157 on the page.

Best,
Cynthia



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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:14 pm      Post subject:
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oops, it seems that Dave and I were posting at the same time!!
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[email protected]



Joined: 05 Feb 2020
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Location: Scotland

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:26 am      Post subject:
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Thank you both for taking time to carry out research for me; I appreciate it very much.

I realise now, however, that my initial request was unclear so I apologise for adding on a further request.

I can't find any marriage record of Jadwiga Jędraszek (alternative spelling on some docs is Jendraszek) to Wacław Jasinski. Nor can I find any record of Jadwiga's birth.

The marriage has me most puzzled as I can maybe understand I'm looking in the wrong place for a Prussian birth certificate(?).

I googled the origins of Gonska surname and that may be a Jewish surname but I'm not sure how relevant that is in the search for Jadwiga's birth details or her marriage to Wacław.

Like I said, I do apologise for adding in a further request which is completely my fault for being unclear at the outset. I hope you can still help.

Mark
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:56 am      Post subject:
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[email protected] wrote:
Thank you both for taking time to carry out research for me; I appreciate it very much.

I realise now, however, that my initial request was unclear so I apologise for adding on a further request.

I can't find any marriage record of Jadwiga Jędraszek (alternative spelling on some docs is Jendraszek) to Wacław Jasinski. Nor can I find any record of Jadwiga's birth.

The marriage has me most puzzled as I can maybe understand I'm looking in the wrong place for a Prussian birth certificate(?).

I googled the origins of Gonska surname and that may be a Jewish surname but I'm not sure how relevant that is in the search for Jadwiga's birth details or her marriage to Wacław.

Like I said, I do apologise for adding in a further request which is completely my fault for being unclear at the outset. I hope you can still help.

Mark


Hi Mark,
It may help you, when looking for Jadwiga in records from the Prussian Partition of Poland, to realize that the German version of that name is Hedwig. It's good that you already know to look for Jędraszek as Jendraszek - - using the "en" is an approximation of the sound of the Polish letter ę and in a similar vein, you may find Gonska in non-Polish records and Gąska in Polish records.
I personally do not think of surnames as being Jewish or not. It is people who adhere to a religion. A surname alone will not tell you someone's belief. Just my two cents.
Dave provided a link to a website that would be useful for searching in the geographical area where these ancestors are from. Did you have a chance to try looking there?
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:25 am      Post subject:
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Sophia wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Thank you both for taking time to carry out research for me; I appreciate it very much.

I realise now, however, that my initial request was unclear so I apologise for adding on a further request.

I can't find any marriage record of Jadwiga Jędraszek (alternative spelling on some docs is Jendraszek) to Wacław Jasinski. Nor can I find any record of Jadwiga's birth.

The marriage has me most puzzled as I can maybe understand I'm looking in the wrong place for a Prussian birth certificate(?).

I googled the origins of Gonska surname and that may be a Jewish surname but I'm not sure how relevant that is in the search for Jadwiga's birth details or her marriage to Wacław.

Like I said, I do apologise for adding in a further request which is completely my fault for being unclear at the outset. I hope you can still help.

Mark


Hi Mark,
It may help you, when looking for Jadwiga in records from the Prussian Partition of Poland, to realize that the German version of that name is Hedwig. It's good that you already know to look for Jędraszek as Jendraszek - - using the "en" is an approximation of the sound of the Polish letter ę and in a similar vein, you may find Gonska in non-Polish records and Gąska in Polish records.
I personally do not think of surnames as being Jewish or not. It is people who adhere to a religion. A surname alone will not tell you someone's belief. Just my two cents.
Dave provided a link to a website that would be useful for searching in the geographical area where these ancestors are from. Did you have a chance to try looking there?
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia


Hi Mark,

It is highly unlikely that the marriage of Wacław and Jadwiga would be available in the public domain. Poland has a 100 year privacy policy and, of course, there is a lag time between the date that a record becomes eligible for public availability and the time that the record would actually be able to be found on the internet. Given their years of birth the marriage may not yet have passed the 100 year mark and even it has recently it is unlikely that the record would be available on the internet at this time. To obtain copies of “recent” records one must contact the local registry office.

Finding info about Jadwiga and her parents is a bit tough given the area where she lived. An excellent source for finding marriages in German Poland is the Poznan Project, which has indexed most marriages which took place in the Province of Posen (German: Provinz Posen, Polish: Prowincja Poznańska) from 1800 to 1900. Unfortunately, where she lived is beyond the territory covered by the Project, which means that one must depend on other indexes to locate marriages and whether or not a given marriage has been indexed depends on the luck of the draw. It looks like the marriage of Jadwiga’s parents has not drawn good (index) cards.

Good luck in your research.

Dave
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:47 am      Post subject:
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Hi again Mark,
Just a quick follow-up note. I did go to the link Dave had provided, and Jadwiga's birth record is there and she is, as I had guessed, Hedwig rather than Jadwiga because the record is written in German. I had hoped to find a notation about her marriage added to the birth record, but sadly it is not.
If the birth record interests you, and you'd like a chance to work out the method for finding it, then I will leave you to it rather than spoil the fun by posting the image here. If you need help with navigating it, let me know.
Best,
Sophia
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[email protected]



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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:11 am      Post subject:
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I had considered the privacy laws but assumed they would be similar to Scotland - 100 years for births, 75 or 80 for marriages, and 50 for deaths. I will do as you suggest and make contact with the local USC regarding their marriage cert.

Many thanks for the information!
Mark
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:21 am      Post subject:
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Sophia,

I thank you for giving me the opportunity to find the information that should be plain for me to see but I just cannot find it.

I search for any combination of Jadwiga/Hedwig/Jędraszek/Jendraszek and the same results come up.

On Genetika, I have used all the combinations of searches through each area. I do get a Jadwiga Jedraszek but she was born much earlier than I'm looking for.

Using Genealogy in Archive, I find searching much harder (especially a cold search) but there are limited Jendraszek's and Jedraszek's, and none of Hedwig Jędraszek.

I promise I do not wish to be spoon fed information that I should be able to find myself (I find it very frustrating that I can't do this) but I feel I must be missing something very obvious.

Maybe I'm trying to be too specific in my search or (who knows).

I often frustrate my partner as I look for everyday items around the house that are hidden in plain sight.

So, please, can you give me a nudge in the right direction?

Many thanks,
Mark

p.s. I take your point about surnames and religion. I just repeated the first thing I saw on google and didn't really give much thought to it.
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:04 am      Post subject:
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[email protected] wrote:
Sophia,

I thank you for giving me the opportunity to find the information that should be plain for me to see but I just cannot find it.

I search for any combination of Jadwiga/Hedwig/Jędraszek/Jendraszek and the same results come up.

On Genetika, I have used all the combinations of searches through each area. I do get a Jadwiga Jedraszek but she was born much earlier than I'm looking for.

Using Genealogy in Archive, I find searching much harder (especially a cold search) but there are limited Jendraszek's and Jedraszek's, and none of Hedwig Jędraszek.

I promise I do not wish to be spoon fed information that I should be able to find myself (I find it very frustrating that I can't do this) but I feel I must be missing something very obvious.

Maybe I'm trying to be too specific in my search or (who knows).

I often frustrate my partner as I look for everyday items around the house that are hidden in plain sight.

So, please, can you give me a nudge in the right direction?

Many thanks,
Mark

p.s. I take your point about surnames and religion. I just repeated the first thing I saw on google and didn't really give much thought to it.


Hi Mark,
It is not obvious at all, so don't be hard on yourself. Here’s the thing: you have to move beyond searching for names that are indexed, and into the challenging world of browsing through the books of records, page by page. Thankfully, if you understand how they are organized, you can do it without too much trouble.
How about a little tutorial?
Let’s say you want to find Jadwiga’s birth record. You already know that she was from Brzozie Lubawskie. By also knowing her birth date, you have just saved yourself a ton of work! Now, how to find her?
First, start by going to the website https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/
Click on the black box that says “Start browsing”
You are now at a search screen.
In the white box for “town/city” start typing Brzozie Lubawskie. As you are typing, it will anticipate you and provide choices, so go ahead and click on Brzozie Lubawskie and hit search.
Now you are at a screen that gives a “Result summary.”
All good, so far?
You see a bunch of blue blocks, each representing a book of records. Let’s look at the first one. It is for the town of Brzozie Lubawskie. Good. Then you see, community, voivodeship, team, archive, blah blah blah all in a nice list. Look at “category.” There are three types of categories. Akta Zgonow are deaths, Akta malzentsw are marriages. Akta urodzen are births. You see that this first blue block is for Akta Zgonow, deaths. Not what you want. So proceed to the next. Once you find the block that has Akta urodzen for Brzozie Lubawskie for a range of years that includes Jadwiga’s births, you can do a short victory dance. Then click on the image of the little black book. You are now at a new screen, looking at the cover of that very book. Yay!
Now, you’ll have to page through that book BUT first you want to be in the correct year. So, on the left hand part of the page, open up the Table of Contents and you’ll see a box that lets you select the year. Then, start looking. They are arranged sequentially, by date. You may or may not know German, but you should be able to page on past “Januar” and “Februar” to get to “Marz.” Now, even if you do know German, don’t expect to be able to read these. They are written in the old German script EXCEPT you should be able to read peoples’ names. So you want to look for Hedwig. The name of the baptized is fairly low on the form. Here’s what to look for. There is a pre-printed line “geboren worden sei und dass das Kind ___ Vornamen” and then there is a blank line (I mean no pre-printing) where her name will be and then there is a line beginning with pre-printed words “erhalten habe.”
Good luck!
And don’t worry, because here on the forum there is a place to request translations of German documents, and Kmichael8 does a most excellent job with that bothersome old script. So once you find Hedwig/Jadwiga, you can post a request for him and include a link to the image, or a good copy of the image for him to read.
Let me know if this is helpful, or if you get stuck.
Best,
Sophia
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[email protected]



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Post Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:29 pm      Post subject:
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Ahh Sophia,

Thank you so much!! Entry 51 and there is Jadwiga.

Your tutorial was brilliant - like you've opened a new door into my research. I don't think I would have worked this out for myself!

Without a doubt I will be seeking more help on these forums but thanks to everyone who helped me for now!

All the best,
Mark
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:46 am      Post subject:
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[email protected] wrote:
Ahh Sophia,

Thank you so much!! Entry 51 and there is Jadwiga.

Your tutorial was brilliant - like you've opened a new door into my research. I don't think I would have worked this out for myself!

Without a doubt I will be seeking more help on these forums but thanks to everyone who helped me for now!

All the best,
Mark


Hi Mark,
I see your Russian translation was finally done yesterday! As for the German translation, you might try sending a private message to KMichael8 in case he has not been following the conversation on that thread.
Best of luck in your research,
Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:00 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks Sophia, I will do that.
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