Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:47 pm
Post subject: Kokoszka Surname Polish Catholic Church Book Records. Help!
I did some research on FamilySearch.org and found my great-grandfather's birth record. It' listed in Roman Catholic Church Books, 1600-1950 and the information fits in with what I had been told orally by family. Josephus Kokoszka. Baptism: 8 Dec 1885. Place: Zdziarzec, Zdziarzec, Rzeszów, Poland. Father: Joannes Kokoszka
Mother: Catharina Dazdzos.
The place name was new information for me and I had been told my g.g. grandmother had a different last name (maybe we were wrong?). But I thought if I did a general search in the database of the father's name and found other baptism records with the same parents I could locate my greatgrandfather's siblings. I found several other records for the same town and same father's name, but different mother's names. Any ideas why I can't find sibling's records? I also can't find a marriage record for Joannes and Catharine which could help me trace them back further.
Would I actually need to travel to Poland to find more information? Any idea why part of the church records would be digitized and not others?
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:42 pm
Post subject:
Hi ELK15,
It's not quite clear in your message whether you have exhausted all of your options. Have you limited your search to online records? It seems that online versions of church records at FamilySearch.org have not been online very long.
Most of us order physical microfilm and examine the film at our local family history center.
When I did a microfilm query on your village, the results show 5 microfilm numbers associated with your village. I have pasted the info below so you can compare the film numbers with the films you viewed online.
My family is from the same general area and though I've found many records of relatives my church records are incomplete in the LDS microfilm library.
What are your thoughts about Catharina's surname? Was Dazdzos the name your family gave as her surname, or was it the one you found in the records? I had a similar finding when I began my family research. When I finally found my grandfather's birth record on microfilm, his grandmother's name did not match the surname I was expecting. The first name was the same, but the surname was different. At first we thought there was a second wife who just happened to have the same first name. But later I found that the unexpected surname was actually her MOTHER'S maiden name. I have since come across this strange practice several times while looking at records. I wrote about it in an earlier forum thread: http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=918&highlight=grandmother
Here is what I found in the LDS microfilm search - If I were you, I'd re-do the search to make sure you catch something I may have missed:
Title:
Kopie księg metrykalnych, 1806-1863
Authors:
Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Zdziarzec (Mielec)
Notes:
Mikrofilm zrobiony z rękopisów w Archiwum Państwowe w Warszawa i w Archiwum Diecezjalne w Tarnowie.
Roman Catholic parish register transcripts of births, marriages, and deaths for Zdziarzec, Galizien, Austria; now Zdziarzec (Mielec), Rzeszów, Poland.
Includes the affiliated towns of Żarówka and Dulcza Wielka. Some of the copies go through each year first listing Zdziarzec, then Żarówka, and lastly Dulcza Wielka. Other copies have separate books for each locality.
Text in Latin.
Publication
: Salt Lake City, Utah : Mikrofilmowało The Genealogical Society of Utah, 1974, 1995
Microfilm 5 Rolls: 35 mm.
FHL INTL Film [ 998651 ]
Akta urodzeń 1806-1863
FHL INTL Film [ 998652 ]
Akta małżeństw 1806-1863
FHL INTL Film [ 998653 ]
Akta zgonów 1806-1863
FHL INTL Film [ 1980466 Items 1-6 ]
Akta urdozeń 1831-1915 (Zdziarzec)
Akta urodzeń 1860-1902 (Żarówka) Akta urodzeń 1890 1924-1926 (Dulcz. Wiel.) Akta urodzeń 1931, 1935 (Dulcza Wielka) Akta urodzeń 1945-1949 (Dulcza Wielka) Akta małżeństw 1913-1919 (Dulcza Wielka) Akta małżeństw 1924-1935 (Dulcza Wielka) Akta małżeństw 1944 (Dulcza Wielka) Akta zgonów 1924-1926 (Dulcza Wielka) Akta zgonów 1935 (Dulcza Wielka)
FHL INTL Film [1980466 Items 7-10 ]
Akta małżeństw 1858-1879 (Zdziarzec)
Akta małżeństw 1853-1876 (Żarówka)
Akta małżeństw 1846-1876 (Dulcza Wielka)
Akta małżeństw 1879-1920 (Zdziarzec)
Akta małżeństw 1876-1912 (Żarówka)
Akta małżeństw 1877-1910 (Dulcza Wielka)
Akta zgonów 1786-1874 (Zdziarzec)
FHL INTL Film [ 1980467 Items 1-2 ]
Akta zgonów 1875-1915 (Zdziarzec)
Akta zgonów 1857-1909 (Żarówka)
Good Luck and let us know what you find!
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:39 pm
Post subject:
Thanks very much for your help. I have definitely have not exhausted my search options. I just wanted to make sure I was on the right path after the last name confusion. I was told my family that my g.g. grandmother's maiden name was Kurdrar (this could be Americanized spelling). So Dazdzos was not what I had expected to find. I'll get in touch with the Family History Center and get the microfilms to look at. It looks like they are digitized too, but I can only view them at the center.
In my great grandfather's birth record he is listed as living in House 1. How consistent might this be between sibling's birth records. Did people move often? Is this a good indication that you have birth records from the same household over a number of years?
I found 3 more birth records in the same town both listed as house 1 (same as my great grandfather).
1. Maryanna Kokoszka. Baptism: 23 Mar 1884. Parents: Joanes Kokoszka and Catharina Kurzdot.
2. Thecla Kokoszka. Baptism: 2 Oct 1890. Parents: Joannes Kokoszka and Catharina Kurzdiot.
3. Sophia Kokoscka. Baptism: 29 Jan 1888. Parents: Joannes Kokoscka and Catharina Hurdzar.
Could these be siblings? Would they list the mother's maiden name differently in diffferent church records? The Hurdzar is similar to the Kurdrar last name that we thought she had.
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:04 pm
Post subject:
Let me see if I'm following you...... the info you've posted is from the text shown on the Family Search website (as in the screenshot I pasted below) and you have not yet seen the actual microfilm yet, correct?
The text in the Family Search screenshot is text that a volunteer has transcribed from reading the microfilm. Reading church records can be REALLY challenging - even more so if the priest had messy writing. When I look at my own notes from reading microfilm, I find that I've spelled some names a dozen different ways. So I am not surprised to see that the Family Search website shows Catherine's surname as being Hurdzar, Kurzdot, Kurzdiot for 3 different records.
Once you see the microfilmed record for yourself, you will also be able to see the names of the child's grandparents. If the record is complete, Catherine's parents names will be included. Hopefully this will solve the mystery of the Dazdzos.
I am definitely no expert at the Polish language or Polish surnames, but Dazdzos seems odd and may be a misinterpretation of Catherine's surname. Note that middle letters in Dazdzos are similar to the middle letters of Hurdzar, Kurzdot, Kurzdiot.
This is very interesting - I'm anxious to see what else you find!
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:40 am
Post subject:
Thanks very much. I didn't realize that the actual church record also contains grandparents names. I look forward to looking at them. Unfortunatly our family history center is only open one night a week (on which I currently have commitment), so it might take me a while to get over there to look at the records. I can't wait to though. You've been very helpful filling me in on some of the unique idiosyncrasies of Polish genealogy research.
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:14 am
Post subject:
Since I don't know you personally, please forgive me if you already know this:
If you have not already spoken to some staff at your local family history center (FHC) I would give them a call and tell them what you want to do. They can probably tell you whether you can see digital images of your records right away and what you need to bring on your first visit. If the records are not available to view online, you won't see your records on your first visit, unless someone else in your area was also researching your village and ordered microfilm......
You wrote earlier that your films have been digitized - it would be great if they have it online for you to look at and not have to order microfilm. I have not had this happen (digitized records) yet with my family records and had to order rolls of microfilm.
In case you do have to order microfilm, this is how I've been doing it:
Do you know how to use the FHC online catalogue to get your film info? That is what I used to get the info I posted for you earlier: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatalog-search-api%3A8080%2Fwww-catalogapi-webservice%2Fitem%2F352946
This link has some good info for using the FHC library catalogue: http://barbsnow.net/FHL%20Catalog.html
To view films at my local center, I first have to drive over there (18 miles) and fill out the order forms for the films that I want. I hear that online ordering is available, but I have not yet tried to use it. Our fellow member Gilberto provided the link: https://www.familysearch.org/films/
The cost is approximately 6 dollars per roll of microfilm.
If you don't already have experience with these microfilms and don't want to waste your dollars, carefully choose one roll of microfilm to order first, and order your next roll after you become comfortable with your first roll.
Once you place your order, the wait is usually around 2-3 weeks for the film to arrive - though a few times I got them in one week!
The films will only stay at my local FHC for about 3 months, so I don't order too many at one time. Otherwise I have to pay again to extend the "rental" of films that I didn't even get around to looking at. However, once I extend 2 times, the microfilm stays at my local center indefinitely. Sometimes if I know that I want to keep the film there, I try to pay for the 2 extensions right away to save me from running over there again to pay.
The very first time that I looked at records, I was overwhelmed. It didn't help that my local FHC was only open for 1.5 hours. Believe me, that time goes by really really fast. I wasted alot of time learning how to use the microfilm machine and understanding what I was looking for in the films. Before I even got to the section where my grandfather's record was, it was time to close and I had to wait another week! This is another reason why I suggested that you only order one film at first.
Take a digital camera with you in case your FHC allows you to photograph your family record. Some of the microfilm readers have displays that can be easily photographed. You'll be happy to have the photos once you leave the FHC. Because the hours at my center are relatively short, I hurry to take photos and then take the time to review them more carefully on the computer once I get home.
I hope that you find that your films can be viewed online and you won't have to order microfilm. If so, please post a reply here and tell us about it.
Shellie
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:43 pm
Post subject:
ELK15
Hello I wanted to offer a possibility for the spelling variation of your mystery surname: Dazdzos.
Within my own research with the Polish surnames, I have came across the surname: Dziadzio. This surname is within my own family. It looks similiar to me especially with the language barrier and a clerk could have misspelled it.
Just as Shellie has stated, I am no expert but Dz, Rz, Cz usually go by each other...from what I have seen.
I hope this helps you some! Dont give up you will find it. 
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:27 am
Post subject:
Thanks everyone for your help. I'm going to the Family History Center tomorrow afternoon so hopefully I'll get some answers and I'll report back on what I find.
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