PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Author
Message
trinkelson



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Replies: 21

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:22 am      Post subject: Julian dates and Russian language records
Reply with quote

Does anyone have a list of dates when Polish records were required to be in Russian, and when that ended, and which areas of Poland were covered?

Also I've noted some Polish language records with both Julian and Gregorian dates. When did that begin and end and where was that done?

I suspect the answer is probably "It depends..." but thought I'd give it a try.

Thanks
View user's profile
Send private message
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 2556
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:31 am      Post subject: Re: Julian dates and Russian language records
Reply with quote

trinkelson wrote:
Does anyone have a list of dates when Polish records were required to be in Russian, and when that ended, and which areas of Poland were covered?

Also I've noted some Polish language records with both Julian and Gregorian dates. When did that begin and end and where was that done?

I suspect the answer is probably "It depends..." but thought I'd give it a try.

Thanks


Double dating began to be used more commonly in Kingdom offices after the November Uprising. Non-official correspondence, however, was dated later rather according to the New Style. The reforms of the Kingdom administration after the January Uprising (1864) coincided with the introduction of the Old Style as the exclusive method of dating in offices. Press, business correspondence, etc. was double dated until 1915, when the Julian calendar ceased to exist in the Kingdom.

The obligation to write record books in Russian was established after 1864.

Generally i would say: 1864-1915 in the territory of the Russian partition.

_________________
please remember that my translations are volunteering so whenever you want to send money remember that this is a gift, not a payment.
PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2048
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:32 pm      Post subject: Re: Julian dates and Russian language records
Reply with quote

marcelproust wrote:
trinkelson wrote:
Does anyone have a list of dates when Polish records were required to be in Russian, and when that ended, and which areas of Poland were covered?

Also I've noted some Polish language records with both Julian and Gregorian dates. When did that begin and end and where was that done?

I suspect the answer is probably "It depends..." but thought I'd give it a try.

Thanks


Double dating began to be used more commonly in Kingdom offices after the November Uprising. Non-official correspondence, however, was dated later rather according to the New Style. The reforms of the Kingdom administration after the January Uprising (1864) coincided with the introduction of the Old Style as the exclusive method of dating in offices. Press, business correspondence, etc. was double dated until 1915, when the Julian calendar ceased to exist in the Kingdom.

The obligation to write record books in Russian was established after 1864.

Generally i would say: 1864-1915 in the territory of the Russian partition.


Hi,

The question of double dates according to the Julian and Gregorian Calendars involves more countries than Poland and Russia. Perhaps some historical background may place the question into a larger perspective before dealing with the more specific question of Polish vital records.

The Gregorian Calendar came into being in 1582 as a result of the reforms under Pope Gregory XIII. The Julian Calendar was no longer in sync with the amount of time that it took for the earth to orbit the sun and the reforms of 1582 corrected the problem. In Catholic countries the new calendar began to be used from that time on. Thus the Gregorian Calendar came into use in Poland in 1582. However, the changeover from the Julian to the Gregorian Calendar was not simply a matter of science. It was very much connected to religion. Non-Catholic countries adopted the Gregorian Calendar at different times once they could get past the calendar’s connection to the Pope. In Great Britain and its Colonies (including the North American Colonies) the switch took place in 1752 and in Russia after WWI. The last country in Europe to adopt the Gregorian Calendar was Greece in 1923. A related question is the beginning of the year. In Poland the New Year began on January 1 from 1556 whereas in Great Britain that did not happen until 1752. In earlier times the New Year frequently began in March (usually on March 25) to coincide with the beginning of Spring, nature’s season of rebirth.

On to the specific question of the Kingdom of Poland aka Russian Poland...The Congress Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Kongresowe aka Królestwo Polskie, or popularly called Kongresówka) came into existence in 1815 as a result of the Congress of Vienna. Originally the kingdom enjoyed a degree of autonomy in personal union with the Tsar (Alexander I [1815-1825]). His successor, Nicholas I, was crowned King of Poland on May 24, 1829. After the uprising of 1831 the Kingdom lost much of its autonomy and was bound more closely to the Russian Empire. After the end of the January Uprising (1863-4) in 1864 the Tsar renounced whatever obligations he was considered to have as King of Poland. As a reaction to the failed uprising decrees of the Tsar in 1867 were intended to bring about the Russification or Russianization of the Kingdom. The political status of the Kingdom changed and it became known officially as Vistula Land or Vistula Country (Russian: Привислинский край, Privislinsky krai; (Polish: Kraj Nadwiślański) from 1867 until 1915 (cf. attached map), although it was still commonly referred to by its former title. This reaction also involved the change of the language of official documents from Polish to Russian. Vital records began to be kept in Russian in 1868 and were kept in that language until WWI. The use of dual dates was due to the fact that Poles had long been accustomed to using the Gregorian Calendar whereas Tsarist Russia still used the Julian Calendar. Although the universal use of dual dates in vital records did not happen until after the language switch from Polish to Russian, it is not uncommon to find dual dates in earlier Polish vital records.

I hope that this background information helps to add additional perspective to the question of dates and the use of dual dates in Russian controlled Poland as well as elsewhere.

Dave



Vistula Land.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.07 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Vistula Land.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
trinkelson



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Replies: 21

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:08 am      Post subject: Re: Julian dates and Russian language records
Reply with quote

[quote="marcelproust"]
trinkelson wrote:
Does anyone have a list of dates when Polish records were required to be in Russian, and when that ended, and which areas of Poland were covered?

Also I've noted some Polish language records with both Julian and Gregorian dates. When did that begin and end and where was that done?

I suspect the answer is probably "It depends..." but thought I'd give it a try.

Thanks

Double dating began to be used more commonly in Kingdom offices after the November Uprising. Non-official correspondence, however, was dated later rather according to the New Style. The reforms of the Kingdom administration after the January Uprising (1864) coincided with the introduction of the Old Style as the exclusive method of dating in offices. Press, business correspondence, etc. was double dated until 1915, when the Julian calendar ceased to exist in the Kingdom.

The obligation to write record books in Russian was established after 1864.

Generally i would say: 1864-1915 in the territory of the Russian partition.


The "Generally" range is what I was looking for.
Merci encore Monsieur Proust.
View user's profile
Send private message
trinkelson



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Replies: 21

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:13 am      Post subject: Re: Julian dates and Russian language records
Reply with quote

[quote="dnowicki"]
marcelproust wrote:
trinkelson wrote:
Does anyone have a list of dates when Polish records were required to be in Russian, and when that ended, and which areas of Poland were covered?

Also I've noted some Polish language records with both Julian and Gregorian dates. When did that begin and end and where was that done?

I suspect the answer is probably "It depends..." but thought I'd give it a try.

Thanks


Double dating began to be used more commonly in Kingdom offices after the November Uprising. Non-official correspondence, however, was dated later rather according to the New Style. The reforms of the Kingdom administration after the January Uprising (1864) coincided with the introduction of the Old Style as the exclusive method of dating in offices. Press, business correspondence, etc. was double dated until 1915, when the Julian calendar ceased to exist in the Kingdom.

The obligation to write record books in Russian was established after 1864.

Generally i would say: 1864-1915 in the territory of the Russian partition.

Hi,

The question of double dates according to the Julian and Gregorian Calendars involves more countries than Poland and Russia. Perhaps some historical background may place the question into a larger perspective before dealing with the more specific question of Polish vital records.

The Gregorian Calendar came into being in 1582 as a result of the reforms under Pope Gregory XIII. The Julian Calendar was no longer in sync with the amount of time that it took for the earth to orbit the sun and the reforms of 1582 corrected the problem. In Catholic countries the new calendar began to be used from that time on. Thus the Gregorian Calendar came into use in Poland in 1582. However, the changeover from the Julian to the Gregorian Calendar was not simply a matter of science. It was very much connected to religion. Non-Catholic countries adopted the Gregorian Calendar at different times once they could get past the calendar’s connection to the Pope. In Great Britain and its Colonies (including the North American Colonies) the switch took place in 1752 and in Russia after WWI. The last country in Europe to adopt the Gregorian Calendar was Greece in 1923. A related question is the beginning of the year. In Poland the New Year began on January 1 from 1556 whereas in Great Britain that did not happen until 1752. In earlier times the New Year frequently began in March (usually on March 25) to coincide with the beginning of Spring, nature’s season of rebirth.

On to the specific question of the Kingdom of Poland aka Russian Poland...The Congress Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Kongresowe aka Królestwo Polskie, or popularly called Kongresówka) came into existence in 1815 as a result of the Congress of Vienna. Originally the kingdom enjoyed a degree of autonomy in personal union with the Tsar (Alexander I [1815-1825]). His successor, Nicholas I, was crowned King of Poland on May 24, 1829. After the uprising of 1831 the Kingdom lost much of its autonomy and was bound more closely to the Russian Empire. After the end of the January Uprising (1863-4) in 1864 the Tsar renounced whatever obligations he was considered to have as King of Poland. As a reaction to the failed uprising decrees of the Tsar in 1867 were intended to bring about the Russification or Russianization of the Kingdom. The political status of the Kingdom changed and it became known officially as Vistula Land or Vistula Country (Russian: Привислинский край, Privislinsky krai; (Polish: Kraj Nadwiślański) from 1867 until 1915 (cf. attached map), although it was still commonly referred to by its former title. This reaction also involved the change of the language of official documents from Polish to Russian. Vital records began to be kept in Russian in 1868 and were kept in that language until WWI. The use of dual dates was due to the fact that Poles had long been accustomed to using the Gregorian Calendar whereas Tsarist Russia still used the Julian Calendar. Although the universal use of dual dates in vital records did not happen until after the language switch from Polish to Russian, it is not uncommon to find dual dates in earlier Polish vital records.

I hope that this background information helps to add additional perspective to the question of dates and the use of dual dates in Russian controlled Poland as well as elsewhere.

Dave


Dave
Thanks for your detailed explanation, and the comment about Polish language vital records using both dates. I have saved the text to my computer for future reference. Much appreciated.
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Research in Poland All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2020 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM