wierbonics
Joined: 13 Apr 2023
Replies: 8
Location: new hampshire, usaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:54 am
Post subject: Wieslowicz origin/meaning
Hi,
I've recently come across my grandfather's birth certificate from the state of Connecticut, USA. His surname is written as Wieslowicz. His father's name was Felix Wieslowicz from Toffna, Russia.
I can't find any record of Troffna though I found Lowicz, Poland. Growing up, we were always told that our ancestor was from Poland. Somewhere between 1920 and 1940, our surname changed to Wierbonics. I think this was due to clerical errors due to the handwriting on old documents.
I'm looking for any information on the name Wieslowicz.
If anyone has thoughts, I'd be appreciative. Thank you.
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1627
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:59 am
Post subject: Re: Wieslowicz origin/meaning
Hello,
Can you download the documents you have about your family?
-Barb
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wierbonics
Joined: 13 Apr 2023
Replies: 8
Location: new hampshire, usaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:42 am
Post subject: Wieslowicz
This is all I have thanks.
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1627
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Wieslowicz
Hi,
From this certificate we know that mother was born in Austria and father in Russia. Year of birth for Feliks ab. 1870, and for Sofia ab. 1885. I believe that they did not know each other until they came to the United States. You don't see anywhere that fits.
Do you have a wedding record for Feliks and Sophia? Possibly there is more info.
-B
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1547
Back to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Wieslowicz origin/meaning
| wierbonics wrote: | Hi,
I've recently come across my grandfather's birth certificate from the state of Connecticut, USA. His surname is written as Wieslowicz. His father's name was Felix Wieslowicz from Toffna, Russia.
I can't find any record of Troffna though I found Lowicz, Poland. Growing up, we were always told that our ancestor was from Poland. Somewhere between 1920 and 1940, our surname changed to Wierbonics. I think this was due to clerical errors due to the handwriting on old documents.
I'm looking for any information on the name Wieslowicz.
If anyone has thoughts, I'd be appreciative. Thank you. |
Hi Wierbonics and Barb,
What an interesting change of surname, from Wieslowicz to Wierbonics. I take it, from the title of your query, that you are searching first for clues as to the origin and meaning of the name. You need to gauge whether Wieslowicz is the correct spelling of the family name. A good start would be to find as many documents in Connecticut (or elsewhere in the U.S.) as possible. You can do this on websites like Ancestry that charge a fee, or on free websites like FamilySearch. There are several others to choose from. Some of the most helpful records are ship manifests, World War I Draft Registration records, marriage records (as Barb suggested), naturalization documents and census records. Keep in mind that spelling errors are to be expected in census records and ship manifests.
One other approach is to see what surnames are in use in Poland. I am inclined more towards a spelling like Wisłowicz which is very rare. Its root may be related to Wisła, the Polish word for the Vistula river. There is a reference text for learning the origin of Polish surnames written by William Hoffman and if you look at this earlier thread on the forum, scroll down to find a contributor named MikeP who had offered to do a lookup for someone:
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=18963&highlight=hoffman
You may want to send a message to MikeP (click on the "pm" option at the bottom of the message that he wrote) and ask if he will look up Wieslowicz or Wisłowicz for you.
As for places, I do not think you should lean towards any connection between Łowicz, Poland and the surname Wiesłowicz. The place name Toffna is certainly a spelling based on someone trying to read a handwritten place name, and we will have to brainstorm around that to figure out what it really is. Finding a ship manifest or naturalization document would help a great deal towards that end.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1627
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: Wieslowicz origin/meaning
Hello both,
Totally agree with Sofia. Ship manifest, naturalization document and marriage record. It can bring us further in the search.
-Barb
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2953
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:21 am
Post subject: Re: Wieslowicz origin/meaning
| BarbOslo wrote: | Hello both,
Totally agree with Sofia. Ship manifest, naturalization document and marriage record. It can bring us further in the search.
-Barb |
Hi All,
The first posted doc is a birth registration by the midwife. Based on her surname it is difficult to determine whether or not she spoke Polish. The spellings of the place names are phonetic. The mother was from Tarnów (or a village in that area). Since Henry is the 7th of the couples seven children (at that time) it is almost certain that the couple married in the United States. The Polish Parish in Waterbury was St. Stanislaus, which was founded in 1914 so it is unlikely that they married in that Parish however, it could prove helpful to obtain a baptismal certificate. Perhaps the Polish speaking Parish priest recorded information about the place of origin of the parents. Saint Stanislaus Parish is closed and merged with other Catholic churches in Waterbury. The church building was sold and now houses a Pentecostal Church. It may be necessary to contact the Archdiocese of Hartford to determine where the records from the former Saint Stanislaus Parish are housed. Given the age of the father it is unlikely that there is any World War I draft registration for him since he aged out for all 3 registrations. If the couple was having children on the 2-year plan and Henry was their seventh child it is likely that they were married in the early 1900s—likely somewhere on CN..
It is much more difficult to determine the place of origin of the father based on phonetics and location but an off the wall possibility would be the village of Trawno, which at the time was located in powiat konski of the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) aka Russian Poland, which was on the other bank of the Wisla from Galicia (Austrian Poland. The village today is in woj. Świętokrzyskie. The place fits the bill but whether the guess is correct or not is another story.
It appears that all the stars have to align in order to work out the father’s place of origin. But if this is the age of Aquarius then the Stars May align. It seems that it will take a stroke of luck to determine the places of origin with certitude and to locate the birth records of Felix and Sophie. At least as long dead Romans would say, “Sic mihi videtur” (So it seems to me.)
Since the first asparagus spears of the season are calling out to be harvested that’s all I have to say for today. Now is the time for a young man to head out to his garden.
Wishing you success,
Dave
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MikeP
Joined: 27 Apr 2020
Replies: 29
Location: Houston, Texas, USABack to top |
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:18 pm
Post subject: Wieslowicz origin/meaning
Hi,
I checked the William Hoffman book "Polish Surnames" for Wieslowicz and Wisłowicz. Unfortunately, there are no entries for these surnames. The Hoffman book only includes surnames borne by 100+ Polish citizens. Yes, these are very rare surnames. The book lists several surnames that can come from the root Wisł. They are Wisełka, Wisła, Wiślak, Wisłowski and Wizła. The book also states that the root is related to the Vistula River (Wisła). The Wisłowski surname is more common than Wisłowicz.
Mike
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1547
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Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:54 am
Post subject:
Hi Wierbonics and all who are contributing here,
I have a different thought in mind this morning. Perhaps Wiesłowicz is the mis-representation of the name. There are several surnames beginning with "Wierb..." (although none that would meet the 100+ individuals cut-off that Mike mentioned, as an inclusion criterion for the Hoffmann book).
I looked at
http://www.herby.com.pl/indexslo.html (usually referred to as Professor Rymut's index) which compiled the number of people using a surname, based on the 1990 census in Poland. Here are a few names beginning with "Wierb..."
Wierba, Wierbicki, Wierbiel, Wierbik, and Wierbiłowicz, among others.
Also, very interestingly, there is one person who used the surname WIERBANEK.
I realize that one person is not a very convincing statistic. Someone with the surname O'Connor could have moved to Poland in the 1980s and ended up in Rymut's index and that does not make O'Connor a Polish name. Still.... it does open the question of whether the Wierbonics name used by your family is actually the authentic name (maybe with some small spelling adjustment of its ending) and Wiesłowicz was someone's mis-reading of the name from a handwritten record.
Best regards,
Sophia
P.S. Having only one Wierbanek show up in Rymut's index may be a sign that the family is originally from another European country, and Wierbanek was a way of using Polish spelling to represent the sound of the name. Maybe something like Vrbanek?
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wierbonics
Joined: 13 Apr 2023
Replies: 8
Location: new hampshire, usaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:39 pm
Post subject: Wierbonics
Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback. Perhaps I’ll look into Ancestry.com
You all generated such great leads and ideas Thank you so much. If I find anything further, I’ll be sure to forward to the forum.????????????
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wierbonics
Joined: 13 Apr 2023
Replies: 8
Location: new hampshire, usaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:41 pm
Post subject: Wierbonics
Oops. That last li e was supposed to be :) :) :)
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1547
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:34 am
Post subject:
Hi Wierbonics,
For a ship manifest, consider this one:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6RB-S6X
Click on the image of the manifest, to enlarge it.
He is indexed as "Felix Werzbizky" and you will see him on line 62. He is arriving in the port of New York on the ship Dania, on the 23rd of January, 1892, from Suwalk, Russia (that would be in Russian Poland, today's place name is Suwałki) and he is 21 years old which would fit with the age you expect him to be.
It may not be your Felix, but it's worth holding on to this.
Best regards,
Sophia
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wierbonics
Joined: 13 Apr 2023
Replies: 8
Location: new hampshire, usaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:09 am
Post subject: Wislowicz/Wierbonics
Incredible, Sophia! Thank you so much. I don't know how you found that so quickly. I was on familysearch yesterday and did not find this. I saw that there was a Felix Wierbonies listed on the 1950 Census of Waterbury, CT, which I thought was a misspelling of Wierbonics.
This Werzbizky seems like a potential ancestor but who really knows. As you say, it seems to make sense with the Russian birthplace and age which lines up with my grandfather's birth certificate.
I searched all the names given to me on this forum and nothing panned out.
You're really good at this. Thanks again.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1547
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1547
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:33 pm
Post subject:
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