SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 5:05 am
Post subject:
| Dklepas wrote: |
I even met someone who speaks polish and she pronounced the C as TS in Klepacki...she made mentioned of a fly swatter? Or two fly swatters in regards to the pronunciation of Klepacki? I didn't probe any more about it
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Good morning!
Your comment provided a nice bit of humor to go with my morning coffee. I understand exactly what she was referring to. There is a type of fly called the tsetse fly, and it is one of the best examples of how to say that "TS" sound. This is why she mentioned two flies.
Happy to see you are making such good progress in your research. Out of curiosity, how did you hear about this forum?
Sophia
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 5:41 am
Post subject:
Good morning!
Your comment provided a nice bit of humor to go with my morning coffee. I understand exactly what she was referring to. There is a type of fly called the tsetse fly, and it is one of the best examples of how to say that "TS" sound. This is why she mentioned two flies.
Happy to see you are making such good progress in your research. Out of curiosity, how did you hear about this forum?
Sophia[/quote]
Hello,
Ha, ha, ha Sophia.
Now, I have to contribute something.
Piotr Klepacki died on January 2nd, 1897 in the village of Obrubniki parish Dobrzyniewo Kościelne at the age of 62. He left behind his wife Teresa and 4 children: sons, Klemens, Józef, Hieronim and daughter Teresa. His parents are not mentioned in this document. From the year of death, we can estimate that Piotr was born in abt. 1835.
Here is a direct link to his death record, scan 60, no.2
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/17496379?_Jednostka_delta=20&_Jednostka_resetCur=false&_Jednostka_cur=3&_Jednostka_id_jednostki=17496379
Regards,
-Barb
Last edited by BarbOslo on Fri Nov 22, 2024 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:47 am
Post subject:
Hi,
I found the baptism record of Piotr in 1835 in parish Dobrzyniewo Koscielne. He could be your ancestor, but there could also be several children born at about the same time with the same first and last name. The marriage record of Piotr Klepacki and Teresa nee Borkowska could remove doubts. I will try to find this one.
-Barb
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2950
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 11:35 am
Post subject:
| Dklepas wrote: | Hello Trish and Dave,
Thanks again. I can't even quote everything you posted that I want to thank you for. All the information you provided has been super helpful. Your information about our last name very helpful. The pronunciations how to read translations on Geneteka, I am extremely grateful for. I even met someone who speaks polish and she pronounced the C as TS in Klepacki...she made mentioned of a fly swatter? Or two fly swatters in regards to the pronunciation of Klepacki? I didn't probe any more about it
I knew my 2 great grandparents names on my dad's paternal side and 0 of anyone else.
I now know Kamila's siblings, her birthplace, Herman's siblings and I know all 4 of my great, great grandparents and 4/8 of my great, great, great grandparents all thanks to your help!
Just confirming this is the Rybaki? (highlighted in yellow. I zoomed out a bit just to get into relation of Bialystok where we were always told Herman was from which Rybaki would make perfect sense to list a near by bigger city)
Thanks again! |
Hi Dklepas,
You are correct in placing the village of Rybaki in relation to the town of Białystok. Just as in the USA and other countries, locations in Poland can be divided politically and geographically from larger to smaller. Obviously the largest division is the country itself, Poland/Polska. The next largest division is a Województwo which in a sense corresponds to an American State and sometimes is rendered in English as a province. It is followed by a powiat which sometimes an English is rendered as a county. A powiat is followed by a gmina, which for large towns is the town itself and in rural areas can be understood in terms of an American Township.
For Heronim/Herman: He lived in the contemporary województwo of Podlaskie and in the powiat of Białystok and the gmina of .Dobrzyniewo Duże. From the time of his birth until he left Europe the exact divisions were not quite the same as they are today. BiałystokAnd environs we’re not within the Kingdom of Poland but were in a portion of the old Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth formally known as The Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Królestwo Polskie i Wielkie Księstwo Litewskie) which had been seized by Russia and had been directly incorporated into the Russian Empire bypassing the quasi-independent Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie). Podlaskie is one of the least densely populated regions in Poland with a population density of 58 persons per square km. It is also one of the most pristine regions with several national parks and is referred to as “The Green Lungs of Poland”.
Final tidbits…There are two more siblings of Herman who do not appear under births. They are found under marriages and are Paulina and Dorota. Paulina married Wincventy Adamski, whose father was Piotr—possibly one of the several Barb mentioned.
A tidbit about the Polish language...During the 19th century there were several dialects of Polish that were spoken. Attached is a map of the regional dialects. 19th century Poland also was not a homogeneous monolith in regard to ethnic cultures. Attached is another map showing the ethnographic regions of Poland. I certainly was not born in Poland but I've spoken the language since infancy due to a simple twist of fate (like in one of the songs of Joan Baez). My mother went back to work after my birth and my father was running his hardware business and so my primary caregivers were my maternal grandparents with whom we lived. My grandfather always spoke to me in Polish and I responded to him in kind. And then in another twist of fate my paternal grandmother who lived in the same neighborhood understood English but could not speak the language and so she too always spoke to me in Polish and I would respond to her in Polish. All of my ancestors going back to the late 1600s lived in Wielkopolskie and the neighboring Kujawy region and spoke the Wielkopolskie dialect, which is the dialect I learned as a child. Regional dialects and accents really did not change in the USA and in Poland until early in the second quarter of the 20th century with the advent of mass communication, which at the time meant radio. One of my earliest memories of radio and the Polish language was a program to which my maternal grandparents listened every morning. One advantage to growing up in Chi–Town was the prevalence of Polish culture in the city which had the largest Polish population of any city in the world after Warsaw. The program was Jaworowski’s Polish Early Birds. Anyway, it is good to keep in mind that late 19th and early 20th Century Polish language was not the same as Polish spoken during the 21st Century.
I don’t want to deprive you of the joy and satisfaction you can find by doing your own research so I will not post anymore on this thread unless you ask a specific question.
Wishing you the joy of successful research,
Dave
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:49 pm
Post subject:
Hi,
A few hours of intensive searching and found the wedding record of Piotr Klepecki.
Piotr Klepacki and Teresa Borkowska.
They were married on November 24th, 1863 in the parish of Dobrzyniewo Kościelne.
Groom: 25 years old, abachelor, from Obrubniki, a son of Maciej and Marianna the Klepacki spouses.
Bride: 26 years old, a miss, from Gniła, adaughter of Stanisław and Franciszka the Borkowski spouses.
No.43
https://skanoteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=3175&se=&sy=1863&kt=2&plik=038-043.jpg&x=2501&y=2215&zoom=1
-Barb
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 3:04 pm
Post subject:
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 3:05 pm
Post subject:
Barb, you are incredibly talented at research, and extremely generous with your time!
Sophia
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 3:09 pm
Post subject:
| Sophia wrote: | Barb, you are incredibly talented at research, and extremely generous with your time!
Sophia |
Who says that? You do exactly the same, Sophia
-Barb
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 7:33 pm
Post subject:
| BarbOslo wrote: | Hi,
I found the baptism record of Piotr in 1835 in parish Dobrzyniewo Koscielne. He could be your ancestor, but there could also be several children born at about the same time with the same first and last name. The marriage record of Piotr Klepacki and Teresa nee Borkowska could remove doubts. I will try to find this one.
-Barb |
Barb. All the information today has been very much appreciated! This is unbelievable. So much information to digest, it really is fascinating to me to learn about my history but I think it’s wilder that you all would spend time to do this for a stranger. Thank you! I’m just going to start quoting from all the posts posting some questions for everyone [/list]
Last edited by Dklepas on Fri Nov 22, 2024 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 7:41 pm
Post subject:
| dnowicki wrote: | | Dklepas wrote: | Hello Trish and Dave,
Thanks again. I can't even quote everything you posted that I want to thank you for. All the information you provided has been super helpful. Your information about our last name very helpful. The pronunciations how to read translations on Geneteka, I am extremely grateful for. I even met someone who speaks polish and she pronounced the C as TS in Klepacki...she made mentioned of a fly swatter? Or two fly swatters in regards to the pronunciation of Klepacki? I didn't probe any more about it
I knew my 2 great grandparents names on my dad's paternal side and 0 of anyone else.
I now know Kamila's siblings, her birthplace, Herman's siblings and I know all 4 of my great, great grandparents and 4/8 of my great, great, great grandparents all thanks to your help!
Just confirming this is the Rybaki? (highlighted in yellow. I zoomed out a bit just to get into relation of Bialystok where we were always told Herman was from which Rybaki would make perfect sense to list a near by bigger city)
Thanks again! |
Hi Dklepas,
You are correct in placing the village of Rybaki in relation to the town of Białystok. Just as in the USA and other countries, locations in Poland can be divided politically and geographically from larger to smaller. Obviously the largest division is the country itself, Poland/Polska. The next largest division is a Województwo which in a sense corresponds to an American State and sometimes is rendered in English as a province. It is followed by a powiat which sometimes an English is rendered as a county. A powiat is followed by a gmina, which for large towns is the town itself and in rural areas can be understood in terms of an American Township.
For Heronim/Herman: He lived in the contemporary województwo of Podlaskie and in the powiat of Białystok and the gmina of .Dobrzyniewo Duże. From the time of his birth until he left Europe the exact divisions were not quite the same as they are today. BiałystokAnd environs we’re not within the Kingdom of Poland but were in a portion of the old Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth formally known as The Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Królestwo Polskie i Wielkie Księstwo Litewskie) which had been seized by Russia and had been directly incorporated into the Russian Empire bypassing the quasi-independent Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie). Podlaskie is one of the least densely populated regions in Poland with a population density of 58 persons per square km. It is also one of the most pristine regions with several national parks and is referred to as “The Green Lungs of Poland”.
Final tidbits…There are two more siblings of Herman who do not appear under births. They are found under marriages and are Paulina and Dorota. Paulina married Wincventy Adamski, whose father was Piotr—possibly one of the several Barb mentioned.
A tidbit about the Polish language...During the 19th century there were several dialects of Polish that were spoken. Attached is a map of the regional dialects. 19th century Poland also was not a homogeneous monolith in regard to ethnic cultures. Attached is another map showing the ethnographic regions of Poland. I certainly was not born in Poland but I've spoken the language since infancy due to a simple twist of fate (like in one of the songs of Joan Baez). My mother went back to work after my birth and my father was running his hardware business and so my primary caregivers were my maternal grandparents with whom we lived. My grandfather always spoke to me in Polish and I responded to him in kind. And then in another twist of fate my paternal grandmother who lived in the same neighborhood understood English but could not speak the language and so she too always spoke to me in Polish and I would respond to her in Polish. All of my ancestors going back to the late 1600s lived in Wielkopolskie and the neighboring Kujawy region and spoke the Wielkopolskie dialect, which is the dialect I learned as a child. Regional dialects and accents really did not change in the USA and in Poland until early in the second quarter of the 20th century with the advent of mass communication, which at the time meant radio. One of my earliest memories of radio and the Polish language was a program to which my maternal grandparents listened every morning. One advantage to growing up in Chi–Town was the prevalence of Polish culture in the city which had the largest Polish population of any city in the world after Warsaw. The program was Jaworowski’s Polish Early Birds. Anyway, it is good to keep in mind that late 19th and early 20th Century Polish language was not the same as Polish spoken during the 21st Century.
I don’t want to deprive you of the joy and satisfaction you can find by doing your own research so I will not post anymore on this thread unless you ask a specific question.
Wishing you the joy of successful research,
Dave |
You are only providing me joy, Dave. I haven’t hit my wall yet in reguards to research but searching untranslated websites would be very time consuming for me. So all this information from polish records using polish language websites I would not be finding without your and Barb and Sophia’s generosity. Not that I don’t want to learn how to navigate those but just from a time perspective and where I’m at… maybe in my later years! What great memories for you to have and share. I enjoyed very much reading them
The story about Herman was he was fleeing Russian army conscription for lack of better term. Like the fly swatter story i retold I try to listen and learn and I know not everything is not factual
Question about Paulina and Dorotha. Do you have their marriage records? Also is there a reason that in someone else’s link to Piotri’s death it listed his children but I don’t think it listed Paulina and Dorothy were listed? Not sure if that’s common? I’m putting together some printouts is the reason I ask. Do not feel obligated (you or anyone) to do more research but thought it was worth an ask about Paulina and Dorotha.
Thanks again!
*edit in reguards to Paulina and Dorotha I think we are throwing around so many adamski’s and adamska’s and urszula’s that I am confusing myself. But it appears Paulina and Dorotha are actually Kamila’s siblings as someone pointed out previously. I’m getting better at following (I think!)
Last edited by Dklepas on Fri Nov 22, 2024 11:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 7:46 pm
Post subject:
Hey Barb. Excuse my ignorance. When you say parish is that a location (like town or village or city) or the name of the church?
Thanks again for everything!
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:03 pm
Post subject:
| Sophia wrote: | | Dklepas wrote: |
I even met someone who speaks polish and she pronounced the C as TS in Klepacki...she made mentioned of a fly swatter? Or two fly swatters in regards to the pronunciation of Klepacki? I didn't probe any more about it
|
Good morning!
Your comment provided a nice bit of humor to go with my morning coffee. I understand exactly what she was referring to. There is a type of fly called the tsetse fly, and it is one of the best examples of how to say that "TS" sound. This is why she mentioned two flies.
Happy to see you are making such good progress in your research. Out of curiosity, how did you hear about this forum?
Sophia |
[list=]
Hello! I believe I found it when researching geneteka. I was looking for how to search polish records since I hit a dead end with family tree searching I noticed geneteka seemed popular and I believe I just googled “translate geneteka records”. Or maybe “how to use geneteka” and I stumbled upon this forum and saw how people responded with generosity so I thought it was worth a shot to pose my great grandparents question. I’ve been more than blown away thus far about the time and energy shown to my families research [/list]
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1616
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:23 pm
Post subject:
Hey Barb. Excuse my ignorance. When you say parish is that a location (like town or village or city) or the name of the church?
Thanks again for everything![/quote]
Hi,
It means that the place belongs to this parish, and that all the documents are found in this parish church.
Example:
Piotr Klepacki was born in the village of Obrubniki, but he was baptized in the parish church in Dobrzyniewo Kościelne.
-Barb
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