stewart
Joined: 07 Feb 2025
Replies: 51
Location: UKBack to top |
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2025 4:00 pm
Post subject: Trying to ID my father
I was born in September 1948 near York, England. My father was not named on my birth certificate. My mother's pregnancy was hidden from the rest of the family – and I presume my father - and I was adopted a few weeks after my birth. I didn't discover the ID of my birth mother until about 2000, and learnt she had died in 1990 and so she took my father's ID to her grave.
7 years ago out of curiousity I took DNA tests in the hope it may throw up something. I didn't find any close relatives but the main surprise was that my heritage was 50% Eastern European, probably Polish/ Germanic Polish and possibly focused on the region known as Pomerania. This can only have come from my father as I can trace my mother was 100% British.
My mother was only 18 when she had me and after leaving school in Northallerton, Yorkshire may have worked on farms or riding schools in that area or in Cumbria where her family had farms. She certainly worked in a Boarding House run by her eldest sister in Scarborough, Yorkshire for most of 1948.
Former Prisoners of War and workers from Poland who had fled from there (from fascism or later from communism) or who had fought in the Second World War for the Allies were employed as farm hands on farms near where my mother lived and worked for some years after the war ended. This has made me wonder if my father could have been one of these workers. She described him to the adoption agency (in 1948) as being 21 years old, 5 feet 11 inches tall, fair, a farmer/farmer's son and British.Whilst most of that may have been true she was a young woman in different times and may have been frightened of the stigma of having had a relationship with a foreigner though it is possible but I think unlikely - as farms tend to be passed down through families - that his family may have previously emigrated to England and got into farming.
My paternal DNA connections are very very distant but thanks to a distant cousin in USA I recently reached a milestone in my search, finding my most recent common ancestors. Their names are Pawel Matyakowski and Katarzyna Kozlowska born in Poland in the early 19th century. Multiple DNA matches of mine descend from this couple. They are likely one set of my paternal great-great grandparents. Once I find another set of great-great grandparents, I may be able to identify a great grandparent then try to build the trees down instead of up and try to find a descendant in the right place and time (1947/4 to have been my father.
But at 76 I'm not sure if this will happen in my lifetime.It' s very frustrating not to know who my father was or anything about his life and family history. So I am looking for a man with Polish/Germanic-Polish heritage who was in the North of England in 1947/48. If anyone has any suggestions they would be most welcome.
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 550
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Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to ID my father
| stewart wrote: | I was born in September 1948 near York, England. My father was not named on my birth certificate. My mother's pregnancy was hidden from the rest of the family – and I presume my father - and I was adopted a few weeks after my birth. I didn't discover the ID of my birth mother until about 2000, and learnt she had died in 1990 and so she took my father's ID to her grave.
7 years ago out of curiousity I took DNA tests in the hope it may throw up something. I didn't find any close relatives but the main surprise was that my heritage was 50% Eastern European, probably Polish/ Germanic Polish and possibly focused on the region known as Pomerania. This can only have come from my father as I can trace my mother was 100% British.
My mother was only 18 when she had me and after leaving school in Northallerton, Yorkshire may have worked on farms or riding schools in that area or in Cumbria where her family had farms. She certainly worked in a Boarding House run by her eldest sister in Scarborough, Yorkshire for most of 1948.
Former Prisoners of War and workers from Poland who had fled from there (from fascism or later from communism) or who had fought in the Second World War for the Allies were employed as farm hands on farms near where my mother lived and worked for some years after the war ended. This has made me wonder if my father could have been one of these workers. She described him to the adoption agency (in 1948) as being 21 years old, 5 feet 11 inches tall, fair, a farmer/farmer's son and British.Whilst most of that may have been true she was a young woman in different times and may have been frightened of the stigma of having had a relationship with a foreigner though it is possible but I think unlikely - as farms tend to be passed down through families - that his family may have previously emigrated to England and got into farming.
My paternal DNA connections are very very distant but thanks to a distant cousin in USA I recently reached a milestone in my search, finding my most recent common ancestors. Their names are Pawel Matyakowski and Katarzyna Kozlowska born in Poland in the early 19th century. Multiple DNA matches of mine descend from this couple. They are likely one set of my paternal great-great grandparents. Once I find another set of great-great grandparents, I may be able to identify a great grandparent then try to build the trees down instead of up and try to find a descendant in the right place and time (1947/4 to have been my father.
But at 76 I'm not sure if this will happen in my lifetime.It' s very frustrating not to know who my father was or anything about his life and family history. So I am looking for a man with Polish/Germanic-Polish heritage who was in the North of England in 1947/48. If anyone has any suggestions they would be most welcome. |
Hi Stewart,
Welcome to the forum! I too am an adoptee.
What DNA test did you do? Each one gives you something different. I did the DNA tests for ancestry.com, MyHeritage, and 23&me. Each one gives you different information. It seems most Europeans like MyHertiage.com ove ancestry.com. However, I did not get a lot of responses when I wrote to people about our connections. I like ancestry.com the best. It is the easiest to use. It really narrows down your DNA. People seem to respond back more if you write to them. (For the record, the emails go through the website. So your email address is private unless you give your email address directly to the person.)
I found these tools to be a big help when trying to figure out how people are related.
If you have an ancestry.com subscription, you can buy their "Pro Tool". The "Pro Tool" is a big help in figuring out how people are related to you. If you click on "shared matches" in your DNA while using the "Pro Tool", it will show how a match is related to you such as sibling, half-sibling, 1st cousin, 2nd cousin, etc. There are ways around to figure out how you connect to people if you don't have an ancestry.com subscription but did ancestry.com's DNA test, I can explain this better through a private message.
The other thing to try is the "Leeds Method". You color coordinate the surnames that are matching up to you. I've used this method several times. It does help.
Here is the link for the "Leeds Method". https://www.yourdnaguide.com/leeds-method
Also, you can download your DNA test as a zip file to your computer and then upload it for free to the following sebsites. You might get some hints.
https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomal-transfer
https://www.myheritage.com/dna/upload
https://www.gedmatch.com/login1.php
https://livingdna.com/free-dna-upload
DNApainter is a great tool also. There are several tools on this website you can use.
https://dnapainter.com/
Use this tool to see possible relationships at a specific percent or number of centimorgans.
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
If you have any questions, you can send me a private message, and I will be happy to help any way I can.
Regards,
Trish
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stewart
Joined: 07 Feb 2025
Replies: 51
Location: UKBack to top |
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 5:01 pm
Post subject:
Thanks Trish, I've tried to pm you but my message seems stuck in the outbox and doesn't appear in my sent box, so not sure how to send it
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stewart
Joined: 07 Feb 2025
Replies: 51
Location: UKBack to top |
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 5:08 pm
Post subject:
In lieu of my PM:
Thanks for the prompt response Trish and your interest in my case.
I've tested at Ancestry and 23andme and at FamilyTreeDNA where I did the Y-111 chromosome test, and I've uploaded my DNA to all the sites you mention - Myheritage, Gedmatch and LivingDNA. I've been searching via these DNA sites for my father for about 7 years and although I've not used the tools you mention myself I've had people use them on my behalf - I have a genealogist 'cousin' in USA whose been helping for the past 2 years pro bono and before her I had 2 'search angels' at different times.
The main problem is that my matches are so distant - my biggest ever match is 102cM at Ancestry, most of the rest are well under 50cM. The second problem is people not replying to my messages (including my 102cM match) for whatever reason (death, disinterest, dubious about revealing family secrets and/or my motives). The third issue is people - especially children/grandchildren of emigres to USA simply not knowing about their own ancestry in Poland/Germanic Poland so unable to provide any information. Another issue is the lack of Poles and Germans getting DNA tested!
The Polish Genealogy Society site https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=S&w=02kp&rid=S&search_lastname=Czajkowski&search_name=&search_lastname2=Wasielewska&search_name2=&from_date=1850&to_date=1889&rpp1=&ordertable= has been useful in confirming names, dates etc but it can be a bit quirky and there are gaps in the information because it hasn't all been digitalised yet - old scrawly handwritten records are being deciphered as best they can by volunteers much like at familysearch.org. Talking of them they list a lot of helpful links https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Poland_Societies but they are only helpful if I knew my father's name! Similarly there are records in the UK of Poles in resettlement camps after WWII and records of Polish airmen who fought in the war but without a surname it's hopeless. For all I know he may have been a single child and died in 1948 in which case it's doubtful i'll ever find out anything, there are all sorts of scenarios!
I really don't know that I can do any more than I have that's why I posted my desperate plea in the forum, I'm just feeling more frustrated as time marches on. Obviously I don't know what your situation is as an adoptee but I'm getting more unsettled about not having ever met my mother, being shunned by her family when I discovered who she was, and not knowing anything about my father. I feel restless and rootless, more so as I never really bonded with my adopted parents.
At the moment I'm thinking of joining the Gedmatch Tier 1 plan for a month to see if that reveals anything new but I suspect it's more clutching at straws like doing the Y-chromosome test. I'm also considering employing a German genealogist as it seems a lot harder to access German records online for some reason, maybe privacy concerns and/or a lot of records were lost in wartime.
I'm glad I discovered this forum anyway! It's nice to know someone empathises with your plight and is keen to help.
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Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 5:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to ID my father
Hi stewart.
From what you posted, I expect that you have seen the following on https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/? I am not familiar with this part of Poland, but maybe knowing the parish (Gójsk, woj. mazowieckie) might be helpful to someone else on the forum in order to potentially provide assistance in your search.
I hope that you find the break-through that you are looking for. jajan
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stewart
Joined: 07 Feb 2025
Replies: 51
Location: UKBack to top |
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 6:09 pm
Post subject:
Yes Jajan, I've had help from a Polish distant cousin in finding things through that website, it's a pity there are gaps in the data but it's digitalized by volunteers so it could be some time before it's complete.
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Jillian W
Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 43
Location: Great BritainBack to top |
Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:07 am
Post subject: Trying to ID my father
Hello Stewart,
It appears that you have two counties to concentrate on - both quite large - Yorkshire and Cumbria.
1. Take a look at the British Newspaper archive website to see if they hold local newspapers for these counties and then carry out some searches, e.g. Polish refugees, Polish camps, etc., as they may have reported on the set-up and arrival of residents. You can carry out searches on various topics for free before subscribing and I think that you can get access to about half a dozen newspapers for free as well.
2. I’ve attached a link to a document covering prisoner of war camps in the U.K.
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/prisoner-of-war-camps/prisoner-of-war-camps/
3. Also to a site for Polish Resettlement Camps. https://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/index.htm. This site has a forum and maybe you might be able to obtain some further assistance.
4. If your father arrived in this country before 1938 then he would have attended school until he was at least 14 years.
5. Perhaps local archives may hold some information on Polish settlers, local schools, camps, etc., which could prove useful.
6. Maybe consider trawling through the 1939 National Register to see if there were any residents with Polish sounding surnames living in the area. I seem to remember that one of the sites did allow you to search on place of birth.
7. Time consuming, but your father may well have married in the years following 1948 so a search of marriages for men in these two counties with Polish sounding surnames may also throw up some names - https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search Assuming his year of birth is correct, you could also carry out a search on deaths in a similar manner.
8. If one of your Dna cousins has an on-line tree which they've researched then you could try using that information as a starting point and moving forward.
9. Geneteka and FamilySearch are both useful in providing alternative spellings of surnames as well as identifying the areas of Poland where the name is most prevalent.
I will send you a pm later as I was in a very similar situation a few years ago, but two generations back!
Jillian
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 550
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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2025 12:12 pm
Post subject:
Hi Stewart, JaJan, and Jillian,
Stewart, everyone so far has given you great advice to try. I do have some question and comments for you.
I’m not sure if you know that Polish Origins conducts genealogy research. Here is the link about their genealogy research team. https://polishorigins.com/genealogy/
Do you have a tree on ancestry.com or familysearch.org? I saw a few trees with Pawel Matyakowski’s family in ancestry.com. I did not see a tree on familysearch.org. The trees on ancestry.com did not have a lot of information on them. Since the trees on ancestry.com did not have a lot of information on them, there was no way to figure out any connections to someone that may have went to the UK. I wondering if you post a tree on familysearch.org (Where it is free to post a tree.) that maybe other people on the forum can try to help find information for you.
You wrote: My mother was only 18 when she had me and after leaving school in Northallerton, Yorkshire may have worked on farms or riding schools in that area or in Cumbria where her family had farms. She certainly worked in a Boarding House run by her eldest sister in Scarborough, Yorkshire for most of 1948.
Did you contact people who are related to your mother’s side for any information about your mother? The reason why I ask this question was there were relatives who knew of my biological mother’s secret that she gave me up for adoption. I just saying, you don’t know what people know unless you ask. Maybe someone knew your mother and your father. I know you said some people do not respond, but I would not give up. Someone might shed some light for you.
Question: I am not sure how it is in the UK, but a lot of adoptees in the USA have two birth records. One is our “original” record with our biological parents’ name on it (Note: Sometimes the father’s name is not listed.) And then we have an “amended” birth record with our new name (If your name was changed like mine name was.) and adoptive parents’ names are listed. Does the UK have anything like that? Do you have two birth records? Here in the USA, some States like Pennsylvania allowed adoptees to get a “non-certified” copy of our original birth record. The last time Pennsylvania had this option was back in the early 1980’s. The State sealed the records again in 1985. It’s only recently that the State opened the birth records for adoptees again. I’m not sure if the UK has anything like this.
Regards,
Trish
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Jillian W
Joined: 10 Nov 2020
Replies: 43
Location: Great BritainBack to top |
Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2025 1:04 pm
Post subject: Trying to ID my father
Stewart, Trish's query has now triggered another line of thought!
Yes, we do have a similar system here in the U.K. - the original birth certificate would simply show the baby's date and place of birth and also the mother's name and possibly her own address. Where there hadn't been a marriage the column for the father's name and occupation would be left blank. Following an adoption there would be an adoption certificate which was laid out in similar fashion to a birth certificate but just showing details of the adoptive parents.
But, what might prove to be of interest is the name of the person who went to the Registrar's Office and registered the baby shortly after the birth had taken place. This may have been the mother - or maybe a friend/relative.
I have also heard of situations where the mother of a child who is to be adopted decides to do one last thing and have the baby christened. So it may be worthwhile just checking churches near to the place of birth as the godparents could prove to be interest. In addition, there's always the possibility that the adoptive parents also arranged a christening - again this could be investigated just to be certain.
Jillian
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stewart
Joined: 07 Feb 2025
Replies: 51
Location: UKBack to top |
Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:38 pm
Post subject:
Hi Jajan, Jillian and Trish!
Just to say thanks all for your posts which have given me some fresh inspiration and confirms how fortunate it was that I found this forum - though I'm still not sure how to send a pm or whether to use quote or quick reply. I'll try and respond to any points or Qs separately
Stewart
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TrishPO Top Contributor
Joined: 23 Sep 2020
Replies: 550
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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2025 10:17 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to ID my father
| Jillian W wrote: |
I have also heard of situations where the mother of a child who is to be adopted decides to do one last thing and have the baby christened. So it may be worthwhile just checking churches near to the place of birth as the godparents could prove to be interest. In addition, there's always the possibility that the adoptive parents also arranged a christening - again this could be investigated just to be certain.
Jillian |
Hi Everyone!
Jillian, you made me remember, I too have two baptismal certificates. One under my orignial given name and one under my adoptive name. My adoption was through Catholic Social Services. I have two baptismal records because the nuns at the orphange had the babies baptized right away.
Regards,
Trish
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:07 pm
Post subject:
| stewart wrote: | Hi Jajan, Jillian and Trish!
Just to say thanks all for your posts which have given me some fresh inspiration and confirms how fortunate it was that I found this forum - though I'm still not sure how to send a pm or whether to use quote or quick reply. I'll try and respond to any points or Qs separately
Stewart |
Hi Stewart,
It looks like you are making good progress here on the forum. Let me assist you a little bit. When you write a private message, it will sit in your Outbox until the recipient reads it. Once they read it, it will move to your Sent Box. If they reply privately, you'll see that in your Inbox. Did you need any additional help with the private messaging?
You can reply for all to see by using either the quote or the quick reply. If you use the quote, then everything in the message you are quoting will be present along with your added words. You can see that is what I did here. Had I used the quick reply instead, it would only be my words in this post. Does that clear it up?
Best regards,
Sophia
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stewart
Joined: 07 Feb 2025
Replies: 51
Location: UKBack to top |
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to ID my father
| Jillian W wrote: | Stewart, Trish's query has now triggered another line of thought!
Yes, we do have a similar system here in the U.K. - the original birth certificate would simply show the baby's date and place of birth and also the mother's name and possibly her own address. Where there hadn't been a marriage the column for the father's name and occupation would be left blank. Following an adoption there would be an adoption certificate which was laid out in similar fashion to a birth certificate but just showing details of the adoptive parents.
But, what might prove to be of interest is the name of the person who went to the Registrar's Office and registered the baby shortly after the birth had taken place. This may have been the mother - or maybe a friend/relative.
I have also heard of situations where the mother of a child who is to be adopted decides to do one last thing and have the baby christened. So it may be worthwhile just checking churches near to the place of birth as the godparents could prove to be interest. In addition, there's always the possibility that the adoptive parents also arranged a christening - again this could be investigated just to be certain.
Jillian |
My mother registered the birth according to my birth certificate. I'm not aware of any godparents and I think my mother wouldn't have wanted anyone else to know she was pregnant - only my mother's eldest sister knew of the pregnancy according to my adoption notes and it was clear my mother would not have found a welcome for herself and me at her parents home. I'd be surprised if a church back then would want to christen a child born out of wedlock but it's a possibility so i've emailed the nearest church to see.
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stewart
Joined: 07 Feb 2025
Replies: 51
Location: UKBack to top |
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:56 pm
Post subject:
| Sophia wrote: | | stewart wrote: | Hi Jajan, Jillian and Trish!
Just to say thanks all for your posts which have given me some fresh inspiration and confirms how fortunate it was that I found this forum - though I'm still not sure how to send a pm or whether to use quote or quick reply. I'll try and respond to any points or Qs separately
Stewart |
Hi Stewart,
It looks like you are making good progress here on the forum. Let me assist you a little bit. When you write a private message, it will sit in your Outbox until the recipient reads it. Once they read it, it will move to your Sent Box. If they reply privately, you'll see that in your Inbox. Did you need any additional help with the private messaging?
You can reply for all to see by using either the quote or the quick reply. If you use the quote, then everything in the message you are quoting will be present along with your added words. You can see that is what I did here. Had I used the quick reply instead, it would only be my words in this post. Does that clear it up?
Best regards,
Sophia |
Yes, I think I get the hang of it now Sophia, thanks!
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
Back to top |
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2025 6:20 pm
Post subject:
Hi Stewart,
I am sure you have explored the collections of the UK National Archives, but have you looked specifically at their lists of people who were naturalized? Here, for example, is the list of those naturalized in 1947. They are listed alphabetically, but of course since you do not know the surname you are looking for, ignore that and look rather at the other two columns. One shows the country they came from. The other shows where they were living when they applied. It may not be the best example, but I found a "Baumwollspinner, Alfred" from Poland with a place of residence given as Sheffield, Yorkshire.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11194777
Click on "preview an image of this record" and it will allow you to look at each page of the index.
It would seem a daunting task, yet finite. You will be able to create a list of names of men who were at least near where your biological mother lived, with the hope that they went on to have descendants who have created family trees or who have had their DNA tested. I understand that you are looking at a large area of England. Still, it would provide a starting point. The National Archives has indices for naturalization in other years as well.
Worth a look?
Sophia
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