Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - No trace of relatives... except a grave?!

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Sophia
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2025 5:56 am Post subject:

ALAEssex wrote:

Hi Sophia
It could be. At least that gives us another location to focus on.
The previous researcher has told me that birth records for Kolomyia for the years of Roman and Robert's births have not survived. I think if there is any record it is likely to be in Warsaw so my son and I will be coming to the State Archives in late July to see if we can find anything. In the meantime I will look at Przemysl and Chyron records.
Thank you for finding this!
KR
Amanda

Hi Amanda,

I wish you the best of luck in your trip to Warsaw! There is so much to see.

One further avenue you could explore is to ask the USC (Urzad Stanu Cywilnego) in Czestochowa for access to the death records for Irena and Roman since the cemetery will not respond to you. I have not done this myself, but there is a good explanation on a blog post here on the Polish Origins website:

https://polishorigins.com/blog/polish-registry-office/

For Irena, you are a direct descendant and that should qualify you to receive a document. Roman's death info would be more useful, as his place of birth is likely to match Robert Waclaw's place of birth, but I do not know if the great-uncle relationship will be viewed the same way by the USC.

BarbOslo, who contributes a great deal here on the forum, is experienced with this so you might try asking her advice as well.

All the best,
Sophia

Sophia
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2025 12:51 pm Post subject:

Hi Amanda,

I have something for you!

It appears that there was a child born between Roman and Robert Waclaw. If I am reading this correctly, she was born, baptized and died all on the same day, the 9th of October, 1906. Her name was Isabella. I believe I am seeing her father listed as Michal, a music teacher, and her mother listed as Irena. I have not yet deciphered the rest of it but it should tell us Irena's maiden name as well as where Michal was from. I think it says Irena was from Kolomyia.

Here are the two records:

This is the birth, record #572 : http://agadd2.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%201870/pages/1_301_0_0_1870_0059.htm

This is the death, record #522: http://agadd2.home.net.pl/metrykalia/301/sygn.%201870/pages/1_301_0_0_1870_0105.htm

Both records are from Lwów Szpital Powszechny. I realize that Lwów hasn't been on your list of towns to look at, but it is possible that in his capacity as a music teacher, Michal Schnitzer moved from place to place.

Best regards,
Sophia

P.S. I consulted with Barb, and she added the following info: Isabella was the daughter of Michal Schnitzer, 31 years old, (son of Joseph and Maria nee Saszkiewicz) and Irena, 27 years old (daughter of Antoni and Domicella).

More info from Barb: The place of birth for Michal Schnitzer was Wola Zółta, Żółkiew, Chyrów. She agrees that Irena was born in Kolomyia.

Sophia
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:13 pm Post subject:

Further note: I see on Geneteka that there is a couple in Kolomyia, father's name Antoni Stedniczenko/Stadniczenko, mother's name Domicela Busz/Busch. The parish is Żulin.

Geneteka has indexed a child named Ignacy twice with these parents, with the years 1916 and 1920, but to be clear, this is the year that his birth was added to the book for the purpose of civil registration; he was actually born in 1877. Given Irena's birth year of 1880, this makes perfect sense.

Amanda, I think this is your family.

ALAEssex

Joined: 22 May 2025
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Location: London, United Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:50 pm Post subject:

That’s amazing!
I have been looking at so many pages of writing without success I cannot believe you have tracked them down!
Thank you so much.

BarbOslo
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2025 4:04 pm Post subject:

Hi,
Excellent work, Sophia!
Later registration of this birth is due to the family converting to Roman Catholicism.
Scan from 1920 also refers to the next generation.

-Barb

Sophia
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2025 4:06 pm Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi,
Excellent work, Sophia!
Later registration of this birth is due to the family converting to Roman Catholicism.
Scan from 1920 also refers to the next generation.

-Barb

Oh, that is so interesting! Conversion from Greek Catholic, or from Judaism?

Thanks,
Sophia

looking for clues
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2025 4:49 pm Post subject:

Building on what Barb and Sophia found, here is the index of the 1873 marriage in Zabłotów (obw. iwanofrankiwski) parish in Ukraina for Antoni and Domicela. Indexed as Antoni Stadninenko and Domicella Busch. There is no link to the record, but under remarks there is more info that I don't understand. My guess is Barb or Sophia would know.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=S&w=21uk&rid=3398&search_lastname=Stad*zenko&search_name=antoni&search_lastname2=Bu*&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&exac=1&rpp1=&ordertable=

Sophia
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2025 5:23 am Post subject:

looking for clues wrote:

Hi Diane,

Great find! If we look only for Stedniczenko we would not see this Stadninenko entry, so thanks for posting this. Your link got broken somehow, so here it is again:

https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=S&w=21uk&rid=3398&search_lastname=Stadninenko&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=

The remarks are indicating the source of the data. It is saying that information about marriages between 1872 and 1899 are coming from an index in one book, while those from the years 1900 to 1927 are coming from another. The abbreviation "wg" by the way is for "według" so it is saying "according to". So this is why we see only the year for this marriage, 1873, and not a full date. If you go to Geneteka and look in this parish and limit your search to only 1873, and leave all name boxes blank, you get this:

https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=S&w=21uk&rid=3398&search_lastname=&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1873&to_date=1873

Here you see that of the list of marriages for that year, all of them have the same notation about the source, except for one which has a link to a scan. That scan, by the way, is not a marriage record, but information that was gathered prior to the marriage.

All very interesting.
Sophia

BarbOslo
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2025 3:27 pm Post subject:

Hi everyone,
I made a chart because I like to see relationships, dates and places all at once. Can you tell me if I forgot anything?
Yesterday I checked the R-K church in Kolomyja but couldn't find either Ignacy's or Irena's birth record. Today I checked Kolomyja G-K. I found Ignacy in 1877, but not Irena. Nor the wedding of their parents (Antoni and Domicella Adela).
I can read in this birth record that the child's father (Antoni) worked as a teacher at a school in Kluczów. Kluczów is located about 10 km from Kolomyja. So now I can answer you Sophia that Ignacy converted from Greek Catholic to Catholic religion. I also checked parish Kluczow without success. Now it is completely silent. The family moved quite a lot. The children were born in different places and that makes the matter difficult.
Amanda, you can order in USC Czestochowa (actually in any USC in Poland) the death records of Irena and Roman. Then we can know the places of birth of both. Since both Robert Waclaw and Danuta Aleksandra died in England, these documents do not exist in Poland. I am afraid that there was no "burial" in Poland and the grave is symbolic. Is there a grave in England too? They died in 1996 and 97. Do you know when the "funeral" in Poland took place? How could this be organized with two different years of death?
So if the ashes were laid to rest, then there must be an annotation in the parish sw. Roch in Czestochowa. Maybe the parish office can provide an answer?
Regards,
-Barb

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Sophia
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2025 5:00 pm Post subject:

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi Barb,

That is quite the chart you made! I am impressed by how many generations back you went. Many people take years of research to get this kind of information on their families.

A few thoughts. First, I will mention that Amanda did say that she was at the funerals for both Aleksandra and Robert in the UK, and she said that her aunt arranged to have the ashes brought to the grave where Irena and Roman were buried.

It looks like you found a birth record for Roman Schnitzer which is new information for me. Roman was from the same place as Robert's wife Aleksandra, both were born in Oszacowano?

Small question. I am not sure what is happening on the chart with Katarzyna Petrzynska-Czulowska. You have her information in two boxes. Can you look at that?

Thank you for figuring out that Ignacy Stadniczenko's conversion was from Greek Catholic to Roman Catholic. Very interesting.

The one thing I wish we could find is what happened to Michal Schnitzer. When and where did he die? We may never know.

Best,
Sophia

BarbOslo
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2025 5:13 pm Post subject:

Sophia,
Katarzyna Petrzynska-Czulowska was married first to Ignacy, and after his death to Feliks. She had children from both marriages. That is why we can see her twice. Amanda's main line is her first husband (Ignacy).

-Barb

ALAEssex

Joined: 22 May 2025
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 12:14 am Post subject:

Hello,
That’s amazing!
You are both clearly much better at using the online tools than I am.
But I have been busy. I went to the UK National Archives to see what I could find about Waclaw Robert. Unfortunately and very frustratingly some of the key documents were not available (and some for my Grandmother’s brother were actually sealed for a few more years).
However I did learn one key word - Waclaw Robert was born in Kolomyja.
My son and I will now be in Poznan next week as well as Warsaw in order to see the records you have uncovered for Gollubin and now the information for the Schnitzer side also.
And I am still slowly searching through the online records for Waclaw Robert before we go.

ALAEssex

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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 12:15 am Post subject:

BarbOslo
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 2:50 am Post subject:

Amanda, How did you get the information that Robert Waclaw (1912) was born in Kolomyja? Do you have his birth record?

-Barb

ALAEssex

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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 3:22 am Post subject:

Hi Barb,
Not his birth record, that is what he recorded on his naturalisation certificate for his place of birth.
Amanda

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