jangle1
Joined: 17 Jul 2023
Replies: 38
Location: MarylandBack to top |
Posted: Yesterday at 3:04 pm
Post subject: Possible ancestors? Looking for advice
Hello, I hope everyone is doing well!
I recently got back into more genealogical searching and came across something that might connect to me, or might not. I have been able to establish that my 5th-great grandfather is Jokubas/Jakob Krutulis and died in Ūdrija, Alytus County, Lithuania by at the very least 1910 when his son, Stanislavas Krutulis is noted to have died in a parish record. They both were from the village of Jackany. I know that when Stanislavas died in 1910, he was said to be 75 years old. 1910-75=1835. I know especially for older people, that they would guess approximate ages, so I know this isn't a certain fact. However, even if his birth year moved some, I still think it could be possible that I maybe found his father's birth record.
I was looking through the Ūdrijos Catholic births parish records for the years 1801-1820 (https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267905528) and found a few names, but I am not sure how much I should consider them or continue trying to trace these links. I know for sure that my Stanislavas' parents were Jokūbas Krutulis and Rozalija Žvirblytė. In 1813 I found a record for Jakob Krutul born in Jackany to a Jan and Justyna. I also found a Stefan Krutul 1814, Petronella Krutulowna 1817, and Stanislaw Krutulis 1819 all from Jackany and all born to Jan and Justyna. There were many similar names and variations of Krutul/Krutulis/Krutulowna in the parish book, but these 4 people I think are indeed siblings. If Jakob was born in 1813, that could make him 22/23 in 1835 when Stanislavas was born, which I presume is possible... even if 1835 fluctuates some.
I know this is not something that I should immediately consider to be fact, but I was wondering how some more experienced and wise researchers might handle this? Does it sound plausible enough to try and work with it for now? Or still too big a stretch? If it is helpful, I attached the small parish birth records for the four siblings (Jakob's is a little messy, but it is still in there  ) . Please let me know if I can clarify anything further and thanks for taking a look!
~jerry
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1589
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Posted: Yesterday at 8:26 am
Post subject: Re: Possible ancestors? Looking for advice
| jangle1 wrote: | Hello, I hope everyone is doing well!
I recently got back into more genealogical searching and came across something that might connect to me, or might not. I have been able to establish that my 5th-great grandfather is Jokubas/Jakob Krutulis and died in Ūdrija, Alytus County, Lithuania by at the very least 1910 when his son, Stanislavas Krutulis is noted to have died in a parish record. They both were from the village of Jackany. I know that when Stanislavas died in 1910, he was said to be 75 years old. 1910-75=1835. I know especially for older people, that they would guess approximate ages, so I know this isn't a certain fact. However, even if his birth year moved some, I still think it could be possible that I maybe found his father's birth record.
I was looking through the Ūdrijos Catholic births parish records for the years 1801-1820 (https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267905528) and found a few names, but I am not sure how much I should consider them or continue trying to trace these links. I know for sure that my Stanislavas' parents were Jokūbas Krutulis and Rozalija Žvirblytė. In 1813 I found a record for Jakob Krutul born in Jackany to a Jan and Justyna. I also found a Stefan Krutul 1814, Petronella Krutulowna 1817, and Stanislaw Krutulis 1819 all from Jackany and all born to Jan and Justyna. There were many similar names and variations of Krutul/Krutulis/Krutulowna in the parish book, but these 4 people I think are indeed siblings. If Jakob was born in 1813, that could make him 22/23 in 1835 when Stanislavas was born, which I presume is possible... even if 1835 fluctuates some.
I know this is not something that I should immediately consider to be fact, but I was wondering how some more experienced and wise researchers might handle this? Does it sound plausible enough to try and work with it for now? Or still too big a stretch? If it is helpful, I attached the small parish birth records for the four siblings (Jakob's is a little messy, but it is still in there ) . Please let me know if I can clarify anything further and thanks for taking a look!
~jerry |
Hi Jerry,
This is very interesting. I did spend some time paging through the church book that you provided a link to, for the birth records 1801-1820 (by the way, the cover is lovely) and it is nicely organized with the index on the first few pages. You can easily scan down those columns and see all the Krutulis births and the names of the parents, before going to the pages with the full records. I support your interpretation that the four records you mention are siblings. Since, in that 20 year span, there is only one Jakob Krutul, and because you have other evidence that he was from this place, it is plausible that he is your Jakob. But how to prove it?
While I had no trouble navigating this church book, I did have trouble with looking around on that website for other church books for Udrija. The marriage records would be useful to rule him in as your Jakob. The presence of a childhood death record for the Jakob who was born in 1813 would be useful to rule him out. The absence of a death record for him would keep the hope open. I assume you already worked through this logic and you would have provided marriage or death records if they were available on the website. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has suggestions for what to look at, to help you decide if this is your family.
As an aside, are you aware that the Krutulis name is on a list of displaced persons, for 1915-1918? The Projekt Kurpie website has indexed some people from Jackany, Udria from a "spis wysiedlonych." I am attaching a screenshot that shows names from the town of Jackany. It includes the spellings Krupulis, Krutal, and Krutulis. If you'd like to follow up on this, the website is: https://kurpie.genbaza.pl/
From there, go to this link to see the document from which this index was made (since the names are written in Russian I did not pursue finding which image they are on):
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/jednostka/-/jednostka/12366998
Best regards,
Sophia
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jangle1
Joined: 17 Jul 2023
Replies: 38
Location: MarylandBack to top |
Posted: 14 hours ago at 7:03 pm
Post subject:
Hi Sophia!
Yes, I love when they have the index, it makes it so helpful! And it is so pretty, I love seeing the different handwritings too!
I have had trouble navigating that website too! I tried putting in Ūdrijos in the parish map locator, but ended up scrolling over to Alytaus and looking, because when I search just for Ūdrija on the same website, I only get 4 results that aren’t all even from Ūdrija.
I did think of those possibilities, but what I could find didn't turn much up. In regard to possible records of Jakob’s death, These two links: https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267907304
https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267907256 are organized in the Same folder as the parish book I found Jakob’s birth in, (Jakob’s is titled Ūdrijos RKB, not titled Alytus II as many of the others are). Despite being labeled differently, when viewing the map, all are listed as being from the same Alytaus Šv. Angelų Sargų bažnyčia. Ūdrija is definitely close on the map, but that still gives me slight pause, especially because there are other birth record parish books for the same years as the one in which I found Jakob. I’m not sure if it was misplaced or if I’m not understanding totally. I did not find Jakob in either of those death records from 1814 and 1815, nor from this one, https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267907064, that goes till 1821. I also checked these two: https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267907208, https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267907352, They had records that extended farther, but without really being sure if I’m even in the right place, I stopped at 1816.
Also if Stanislavas was born around 1835, Jakob would have to be around 22 when he was born, assuming he would have had to had been married at least a couple months before that. The other Alytus book marriage I looked through, which is linked to the same church as the Ūdrija one, does not have him in there and it goes to 1834, the year before Stanislavas might have been born. This is the one: https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267906920
And then I looked through: https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267906968 in case the years were wrong and Stanislavas was born later making it possible for Jakob to have been married to someone else/or not at all by 1835. I did not find him in this one. And I didn’t find him in this one either: https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267907016 which goes to 1860. I saw some Krutulis in there, but no familiar names…When I used ePaveldas to search for more specific records, I only get records I’ve seen before, that aren’t helpful here. Looking on Metrikai.lt also didn’t turn up anything helpful.
Thank you so much for your input and suggestions for my situation, I always appreciate your ideas and wisdom! And thank you also for bringing my attention to Projekt Kurpie, I had not heard of it before. I’m excited to look into it!
~jerry
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1589
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Posted: 2 hours ago at 6:31 am
Post subject:
Hi Jerry,
This morning's cup of coffee went well with a little browsing through records from Udrija. Here's another child of Jan and Justyna Krutulis. Her name is Barbara and she was born in 1830. Go to image 166 in this link:
https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267909848
Isn't 1830 a bit late, compared to the birth years of the kids you found?
Sophia
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1589
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Posted: 2 hours ago at 6:47 am
Post subject:
And here is Kasper, another child of Jan and Justyna, born 1826.
You can find it on image 3 of the same link I gave you above.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1589
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Posted: 2 hours ago at 7:05 am
Post subject:
One more! This is Tomasz, born in 1828. Same link as above, go to image 66.
An important detail is that all of these are from Ūdrijos Švč. Jėzaus Širdies bažnyčia rather than Alytaus Šv. Angelų Sargų bažnyčia which you had cited.
I am now officially out of coffee.
Sophia
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