tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 8:15 am
Post subject:
[quote="Sophia"] | tiagogorski wrote: |
If we look at the "Status Parentum" column, it seems to be a "2º" which may indicate that Marianna was the second child, is that correct?
/quote]
Hi Tiago,
That is not correct. It looks like 2º but in fact it is "do" which is an abbreviation for the word "ditto" which means the same info applies in this row as in the row above it.
Best regards,
Sophia |
Oh, thanks Sophia. Good to know. Based on that seems that the word above is operarius, which is a word for worker in latim, indicating that her father was a worker at the time, right?
best
Tiago
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Tiago Gorski
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1532
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Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 8:29 am
Post subject:
[quote="tiagogorski"] | Sophia wrote: | | tiagogorski wrote: |
If we look at the "Status Parentum" column, it seems to be a "2º" which may indicate that Marianna was the second child, is that correct?
/quote]
Hi Tiago,
That is not correct. It looks like 2º but in fact it is "do" which is an abbreviation for the word "ditto" which means the same info applies in this row as in the row above it.
Best regards,
Sophia |
Oh, thanks Sophia. Good to know. Based on that seems that the word above is operarius, which is a word for worker in latim, indicating that her father was a worker at the time, right?
best
Tiago |
Hi Tiago,
I agree, it refers back to the word operarius. You may find it helpful that Dave, who contributes quite a bit to this forum in many ways but especially with his knowledge of Latin, has posted a downloadable list of occupations. See it here:
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=58400&highlight=occupations+list#58400
All the best,
Sophia
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1615
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 11:24 am
Post subject:
Yes, the information I have is that the names of the sister and brothers are: Hans, Marianna and Martha, but I don't know anything else. Where did you find the info about Marianna?
Hi, Now you will be surprised, Tiago.
I checked the church records in Wielki Komorsk and found that Franciszek (Franz) and Julianna had several children. Some of them died as children.
Listed by year of birth:
Jan born 30.11.1891
Franciszka born 1.04.1893
Weronika born 26.02.1894, died 27.04.1894
Franciszek born 21.01.1895
Apolonia born 20.12.1897
Marian born 9.04.1899
Marianna born 3.02.1902
Konrad born 6.07.1903, died 26.11.1906
Wiktoria born 23.03.1906, died 18.09.1906
Otylia born 23.03.1906 twin
Jozef Cyril born 5.07.1907
I couldn't find daughter Marta.
-Barb
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tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:13 pm
Post subject:
| BarbOslo wrote: | Yes, the information I have is that the names of the sister and brothers are: Hans, Marianna and Martha, but I don't know anything else. Where did you find the info about Marianna?
Hi, Now you will be surprised, Tiago.
I checked the church records in Wielki Komorsk and found that Franciszek (Franz) and Julianna had several children. Some of them died as children.
Listed by year of birth:
Jan born 30.11.1891
Franciszka born 1.04.1893
Weronika born 26.02.1894, died 27.04.1894
Franciszek born 21.01.1895
Apolonia born 20.12.1897
Marian born 9.04.1899
Marianna born 3.02.1902
Konrad born 6.07.1903, died 26.11.1906
Wiktoria born 23.03.1906, died 18.09.1906
Otylia born 23.03.1906 twin
Jozef Cyril born 5.07.1907
I couldn't find daughter Marta.
-Barb |
Wow. To be honest I always tought it was strange that they got married in 1891, and Mariano (my 2x great grandfather) was born only 8 year after, in 1899. The familyh tree just got bigger know.
Does Jan name relates in anyway with the name Hans? I ask that because one of Mariano's son was Hans, born in Prenzlau, in honor of one of the brothers he never saw again.
I found a death record which I believe mentions Martha Ketelhut, born Gorski, but it is really difficult for me to translate in ink writing. I'm attaching for your analysis. Not sure if is the same Jozef of the list you sent because the birth date seems different, but I discovered that Martha married a person with the surname Ketelhut, as it was her son who visited us here in Brazil, Gunther Ketelhut.
I've sent this list to my uncle, my grandfather Jozef Gorski is living with him, he is 96 years old but his mind is good and he maybe can remember something.
Probably Jan and Franciszek fought in the great war, as Mariano did, so I'll try to find something too.
Do you have birth records for all of them?
many thanks!!
Abraços!
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Tiago Gorski
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1615
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:16 am
Post subject:
Hello,
Yes, Hans is the German version for Jan. The same name.
As for Jozef, it is difficult to be 100% sure. The age matches. Jozef was born in 1907, and this Jozef was 20 years old when he died in 1928. The place of birth is also correct. But no parents are mentioned. The person who reported the death is named Martha nee Gorski. There is no mention of any familial relationship between them. Do you have Martha's death record? Maybe her parents or birth date are mentioned there. Then I can try again to search for her by birth year.
Yes, I have the birth and death certificates of all the children I mentioned.
-Barb
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tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:02 am
Post subject:
| BarbOslo wrote: | Hello,
Yes, Hans is the German version for Jan. The same name.
As for Jozef, it is difficult to be 100% sure. The age matches. Jozef was born in 1907, and this Jozef was 20 years old when he died in 1928. The place of birth is also correct. But no parents are mentioned. The person who reported the death is named Martha nee Gorski. There is no mention of any familial relationship between them. Do you have Martha's death record? Maybe her parents or birth date are mentioned there. Then I can try again to search for her by birth year.
Yes, I have the birth and death certificates of all the children I mentioned.
-Barb |
Hey Barb, couldn't find Martha's death record unfortunately. The source I'm using goes up to 1986, and when her son visited us in the 90s she was still alive, so that is probably the reason I can't find her.
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/2958/
I found also Apolonia's death record. She died young. The first child of Mariano and Eugenia was named Apolonia as well, maybe in honor of Mariano's sister that died young 22 years.
I'll keep searching.
best
Tiago
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| Apolonia (Franz's daughter) |
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Tiago Gorski
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tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:12 am
Post subject:
| tiagogorski wrote: | | BarbOslo wrote: | Hello,
Yes, Hans is the German version for Jan. The same name.
As for Jozef, it is difficult to be 100% sure. The age matches. Jozef was born in 1907, and this Jozef was 20 years old when he died in 1928. The place of birth is also correct. But no parents are mentioned. The person who reported the death is named Martha nee Gorski. There is no mention of any familial relationship between them. Do you have Martha's death record? Maybe her parents or birth date are mentioned there. Then I can try again to search for her by birth year.
Yes, I have the birth and death certificates of all the children I mentioned.
-Barb |
Hey Barb, couldn't find Martha's death record unfortunately. The source I'm using goes up to 1986, and when her son visited us in the 90s she was still alive, so that is probably the reason I can't find her.
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/2958/
I found also Apolonia's death record. She died young. The first child of Mariano and Eugenia was named Apolonia as well, maybe in honor of Mariano's sister that died young 22 years.
I'll keep searching.
best
Tiago |
Additionally, an aunt just sent me this: Tante Martha was born on 10/11/1900 in Malchow, and died on 11/17/1995.
Seems that there was another aunt named Tonny (probably Antonia), but we don't have more information on dates and place of birth.
best
Tiago
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Tiago Gorski
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tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1615
Location: NorwayBack to top |
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tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:59 am
Post subject:
Hi Barb, how are you?
I've doing some research in the family, and discovered that a distant relative was also trying to get Mariano and Eugenia (my great grandparents) marriage record. This person tried to find this document in the Archiwum Glowne Akt Dawnych w Warszawie, The Central Archives of historical records, where are the baptism records of Eugenia and Jozef (my grandfather) and didn't find it, despite the archive sent Eugenia's baptism register from 1927 (attached).
The new information is that he know that their first child, Apolonia (Born in 1924) was born in Kamin'-Kashyrs'kyi Volyns'ka, oblast, Ukraine (nowadays) which used to be Kamień Koszyrski, Polesie - Poland between 1918-1939.
By any chance do you know which archive the documents of this region may be, or any other insight that could help? He also mention that given she was born exactly 100 years ago, the documents are probably in transit, from national to regional archives, which which ends up being an additional obstacle in the research.
Assuming that Mariano and Eugenia married before their first child, it must happened anytime between 1923-1924.
Best!
Tiago
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Eugenie Reichmann Baptism Wlodzimierz.pdf |
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Tiago Gorski
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1615
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 3:53 pm
Post subject:
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tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
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BarbOsloPO Top Contributor
Joined: 19 Nov 2022
Replies: 1615
Location: NorwayBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 1:40 pm
Post subject:
Do you have a website to confirm which parish was in Kamien koszyrsk at the time? I'm struggling to confirm that.
Best!
Tiago[/quote]
Hi,
I found only this.
-Barb
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1532
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 2:48 pm
Post subject:
| BarbOslo wrote: | Do you have a website to confirm which parish was in Kamien koszyrsk at the time? I'm struggling to confirm that.
Best!
Tiago |
Hi,
I found only this.
-Barb[/quote]
Hi Tiago and Barb,
Maybe this? Image 661 (which is page 659 of the book).
https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/publication/7126/edition/12786/content
Sophia
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tiagogorski
Joined: 23 Nov 2024
Replies: 30
Location: BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 5:16 am
Post subject:
| Sophia wrote: | | BarbOslo wrote: | Do you have a website to confirm which parish was in Kamien koszyrsk at the time? I'm struggling to confirm that.
Best!
Tiago |
Hi,
I found only this.
-Barb |
Hi Tiago and Barb,
Maybe this? Image 661 (which is page 659 of the book).
https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/publication/7126/edition/12786/content
Sophia[/quote]
Hey Sophia, many thanks for this list. very helpful.
It caught my eyes that there is a lot of Kamień cities/villages in this list. As a matter of fact, a relative sent birth certificate (September - 1924) of Apolonia as well as her foreign register (My great grandpas first child) and it says that she was born in Kamienne-Poland. The documents are in portuguese but I've highlighted it in yellow in the attachments.
Considering we know that she was born in Poliese (indicated in the arrival imigrants list), there is a specific village that I found in an a website that Barb recommended (thanks Barb), which is also in the list you sent (page 659), wich is Kamienne in Sarny Powiat, which is also part of Polesie in a period of time.
"In Poland, it was the seat of a Sarny county (powiat), firstly in Polesie Voivodeship, then, since 1930 – in Wołyń Voivodeship."
Other remarks: Sarny had a lot of jewish families, as it was one of the permitted cities to jews live whan it was part of Russian borders. Also due to the city's proximity to the Russian border, it became a Polish military centre following the Polish-Soviet War. As I mentioned before, my great grandfather Mariano Gorski fought on the polish-soviet war, and met Eugenia, wich was jew and later batized in 1927 the ewangelicko-augsburga church. They met in some point close to the end of soviet-polish war.
Additionally, my grandparent Jozef Gorski was born in Dabrowa Cholopecz close to wlodozimierz, and I could only find the town/village Cholopecz in page 240 of the list, despite there is a lot of cities that starts with Dabrowa. Does dabrowa in front of a city name means anything in polish language?
Abraços!
Tiago Gorski
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| Apolonia foreigner register |
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| Birth Certificate Apolonia - Kamienne |
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Tiago Gorski
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