PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Author
Message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:40 am      Post subject: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner
Reply with quote

Towards the end of the 19th century, my great-grandfather William Brooks's half-sister, Emma Keartland, married Stanislaw Leon Graybner in Warsaw. One can discover much about the Graybner ancestral family on the internet.

From a translation of their marriage document: The religious rite of marriage was performed at the Catholic Church of St Joseph the Betrothed in Warsaw by Priest Stanislaw Gall, Professor of the Warsaw Metropolitan Seminary, vicar of the local parish, based on the verbal authorisation of the rector of the local parish. It took place in Warsaw in St Anthony Parish on 27 December 1895 / 8 January 1896 at 6pm [varying dates due to difference between Julian and Gregorian calendars]. Stanislaw is a bachelor and engineer aged 24 born in the village of Lotyn in Garwolin County, son of Stanislaw and Aniela née Trylski, Mr and Mrs Graybner living in Warsaw on Nowy Świat Street Emma is a spinster aged 20 born in London in England, daughter of Richard Alexander and Maria née Stone, Mr and Mrs Keartland, living in Warsaw on Chistaya.
Stanislaw and Emma had a son, Jerzy Czeslaw, born in December 1898 in Warsaw.

I know nothing more about their lives together and would welcome any information about life for them and their children. Also, I do not know how or why Emma travelled to Poland, leaving her family in England, all of whom had their ancestral families in England.

There is a public tree in ancestry.co.uk giving a date of death for Emma of 1st January 1968 Warszawa, Mazowieckie, Poland. Would there be any way of verifying this?

Edited:
I am in contact with the owner of the tree in ancestry.co.uk.
I have been told that Emma and Stanislaw had six sons, all of whom were killed in WW1 and WW2, and one daughter.


Last edited by Joy Dean on 6 Days ago at 1:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
View user's profile
Send private message
katarzyna_t
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 17 Sep 2018
Replies: 72

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:06 pm      Post subject: Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner
Reply with quote

Joy Dean wrote:
Towards the end of the 19th century, my great-grandfather William Brooks''s half-sister, Emma Keartland, married Stanislaw Leon Graybner in Warsaw. One can discover much about the Graybner ancestral family on the internet.

From a translation of their marriage document: The religious rite of marriage was performed at the Catholic Church of St Joseph the Betrothed in Warsaw by Priest Stanislaw Gall, Professor of the Warsaw Metropolitan Seminary, vicar of the local parish, based on the verbal authorisation of the rector of the local parish. It took place in Warsaw in St Anthony Parish on 27 December 1895 / 8 January 1896 at 6pm [varying dates due to difference between Julian and Gregorian calendars]. Stanislaw is a bachelor and engineer aged 24 born in the village of Lotyn in Garwolin County, son of Stanislaw and Aniela née Trylski, Mr and Mrs Graybner living in Warsaw on Nowy Świat Street Emma is a spinster aged 20 born in London in England, daughter of Richard Alexander and Maria née Stone, Mr and Mrs Keartland, living in Warsaw on Chistaya.
Stanislaw and Emma had a son, Jerzy Czeslaw, born in December 1898 in Warsaw.

I know nothing more about their lives together and would welcome any information about life for them and their children. Also, I do not know how or why Emma travelled to Poland, leaving her family in England, all of whom had their ancestral families in England.

There is a public tree in ancestry.co.uk giving a date of death for Emma of 1st January 1968 Warszawa, Mazowieckie, Poland. Unfortunately, the owner of the public tree has not responded to enquiries. Would there be any way of verifying this?



Hello Joy Dean,

I was able to find the birth record of another son of Stanisław and Emma, Tadeusz. He was born in 1906 in Czersk, a village located about 40 km from Warsaw.
Here is the record (act no 76): https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=2&zs=1348d&sy=1906&kt=1&plik=075-078.jpg#zoom=1.5&x=862&y=1543

If you would like to ask for the translation, we have a thread with Russian records translations: https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=3525

Good luck with your reseach!
Katarzyna



Tadeusz Graybner.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  64.65 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Tadeusz Graybner.JPG


View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:53 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Thank you very much. Another cousin for me - first cousin twice removed Smile
I do appreciate it, thank you.
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:51 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Sadly, he died in 1945: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://nieobecni.com.pl/index.php%3Fs%3Dgrob%26id%3D159554&prev=search&pto=aue

I can see other members of his family there.

And here he is in Bologna Cemetery: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=https://polskicmentarzbolonia.pl/en/cemetery-plan/sector/468/8-r.html&prev=search&pto=aue
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:23 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

For information, this is the marriage record for Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner:
https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/72/1218/0/-/29/str/1/19/10#tabSkany[/img]
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 659

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:04 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Joy Dean wrote:
For information, this is the marriage record for Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner:
https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/72/1218/0/-/29/str/1/19/10#tabSkany[/img]


Hi Joy,
I followed this link to see the marriage record (it's marriage #1 of 1896, on image #185, for reference).
It is interesting to see that Emma signed her name as Emma Zofja Keartland. With today's spelling, that middle name would be Zofia (Sophia). Perhaps her name at birth was Emma Sophia, and she found it easier in Poland to adapt the middle name to be a familiar one to Polish speakers, rather than trying to adapt her first name?
On a different note, I see there is a document in the Polish archives, which is a letter written by a Graybner to the writer and historian, Kazimierz Bartoszewicz (it is image #51):
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/skan/-/skan/5d5adf4c225bd0bfd3b8f2720093251188c7550cb78e7de5445a6af0f1bc610f
The letter does not have a date, but the group of letters that it is among seem to be 1890-ish.
Whether or not it is related to your family, or what it is about, I do not know.
Best regards,
Sophia

Note: I am incorrect about the letter not being dated. It is written in the lower left-hand corner, 24/3-89, so 24th of March, 1889. The letter is in Polish.


Last edited by Sophia on Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:27 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

It is very interesting thank you.
Emma Keartland was born in Kennington, Surrey in 1875, and had no other middle name, as far as I am aware. She was christened in Kennington 17 August 1881 at the same time as her sister Alberta Louise Keartland who was born in Camberwell, Surrey in 1878.

Edited: I forgot to say: nice name, Sophia.

Perhaps she converted to Catholicism in Poland before marriage and took the name of a saint?
View user's profile
Send private message
katarzyna_t
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 17 Sep 2018
Replies: 72

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:07 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Joy Dean wrote:
It is very interesting thank you.
Emma Keartland was born in Kennington, Surrey in 1875, and had no other middle name, as far as I am aware. She was christened in Kennington 17 August 1881 at the same time as her sister Alberta Louise Keartland who was born in Camberwell, Surrey in 1878.

Edited: I forgot to say: nice name, Sophia.

Perhaps she converted to Catholicism in Poland before marriage and took the name of a saint?


Hello Joy Dean,

I did more digging to try to verify Emma's date of death and indeed the date you mentioned (January 1st, 1968) occurs on the website with the list of obituaries from Warsaw (unfortunately there is no English version of the website), please take a look: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/?page_id=1149&nazwisko=Graybner&imie=&nazwisko_rodowe=&data_smierci=&search=Szukaj&_wpnonce=f3c1f001cb&_wp_http_referer=%2F%3Fpage_id%3D1149&paged=1

We can find there also information about date of death of Aniela Graybner nee Trylska - Stanisław's mother. Based on this, I found this record indexed: https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=D&w=71wa&rid=D&search_lastname=Graybner&search_name=aniela&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1938&to_date=
We can find there the names of Aniela's parents: Maciej and Eleonora.

Best regards,
Katarzyna
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:34 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Thank you very much for all your help.
Joy
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:50 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

I think that 30PLN would be worth it to see a photo of the grave and the grave's address: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/zmarly/79889

I wonder why there is no entry for Emma's husband, Stanislaw.
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:19 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Joy Dean wrote:
I think that 30PLN would be worth it to see a photo of the grave and the grave's address: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/zmarly/79889

I wonder why there is no entry for Emma's husband, Stanislaw.


Here is a photo of the gravestone of Emma Graybner. The grave is located in the Brodno Cemetery in Warsaw section 36F.
Her daughter and son-in-law have been laid to rest with her.

Does anyone know what the "S.P." signify, either side of the cross on the gravestone?



Keartland Graybner Emma Bródno Cemetery in Warsaw section 36F.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.61 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Keartland Graybner Emma Bródno Cemetery in Warsaw section 36F.JPG



Keartland Graybner Emma gravestone.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.93 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Keartland Graybner Emma gravestone.JPG


View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 659

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:50 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

[quote="Joy Dean"]
Joy Dean wrote:
I think that 30PLN would be worth it to see a photo of the grave and the grave's address: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/zmarly/79889

I wonder why there is no entry for Emma's husband, Stanislaw.


Here is a photo of the gravestone of Emma Graybner. The grave is located in the Brodno Cemetery in Warsaw section 36F.
Her daughter and son-in-law have been laid to rest with her.

Does anyone know what the "S.P." signify, either side of the cross on the gravestone?[/quote

Hi,
The "SP" stands for "świętej pamięci" which means "of holy memory".
Great photo.
Sophia
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:00 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Thank you, Sophia.
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 659

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:12 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Joy Dean wrote:
Thank you, Sophia.


Joy,
In one of your earlier posts you were wondering why Emma's husband is not listed in that cemetery. Do you know whether he may have died long before her? There is a Stanislaw Graybner death listed in 1918 (though no way for me to know if he is the right Stanislaw) here:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=D&w=07mz&rid=D&search_lastname=Graybner&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=
Best,
Sophia
View user's profile
Send private message
Joy Dean



Joined: 19 Mar 2021
Replies: 18
Location: England

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:47 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Thank you, Sophia.
I didn't know anything about Stanislaw since their marriage. I wonder if there is any way of ascertaining if he is Emma's husband.
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Research in Poland All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2021 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM