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ewanchapman
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:03 am Post subject: A quick question on sacramental records

Hello all,

I know their are no absolutes in life and that includes in genealogy, but what were the general traditions of location of baptism of children and location of marriage? Was it done in the husbands home parish or the brides??

I have been really frustrated on trying to track down the marriage record of my ancestors Jozef Fronckiewicz (Frackiewicz) and his wife either Marcjanna (or a some records Marianna) Rogowicz. Jozef was born about 1818 hopefully in the area around Troki (havent found his record yet). This is according to his death record (9 March 1872 in Dobrawola, Lithuania) from Stare Troki metric book which coincidentally lists his surving spouse and children: two of whom I have found their baptism/birth records.

Weronika- born 3 Feb 1862 in Gorale Lithuania, baptized in Nowe Troki, Jozefa (my direct ancestor) born: 19 March 1864 in Landwarow, Lithuania and bapitized also in Nowe Troki. He at the time of his death also had 2 sons Rafal and Romuald and a another daughter Scholastyka of which I have no age or as of yet to find their records. Given the age of his two known daughters maybe these other 3 where from another spouse who died or perhaps they were baptized at another nearby church? All is speculation at this point. I hope that the marriage and other children's baptisms were not held in a church in the City of Wilno proper (just east of all the mentioned villages).

I am purusing the Nowe Troki Baptism registers online to make sure to double check all the years to see if maybe I missed something before.

Any advice for similar brick walls??

Thanks,

dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:52 am Post subject: Re: A quick question on sacramental records

ewanchapman wrote:

Hi,

R. C. rules (presuming you are asking about Catholic marriages and baptisms) stipulated that marriages were to take place in the parish of the bride. The purpose was to give both popular and unpopular priests an even chance to bless marriages. When a marriage took place in another parish the pastor of the bride’s parish had to grant his permission and waive his right to officiate at the marriage. This did happen.

Baptisms were supposed to take place in the parish where the parents resided. The R. C. Church’s administration is divided geographically. Parish boundaries were set based on geographical territory. Obviously, a village within the territory of one parish could actually be closer to the church of a neighboring parish and there were various reasons why a couple’s pastor would permit a baptism to take place in another parish. If the ancestors you are researching moved around a bit you might consider searching for baptisms in neighboring parishes.

In the USA there were (and are) two types of parishes, territorial and ethnic. This is true especially in cities with large immigrant populations. The territorial parishes followed the same pattern as in Europe and the territory of a parish was based on geography. Ethnic parishes existed within the boundaries of a territorial parish and membership in an ethnic parish was based on ethnicity rather than on geography. In the neighborhood where I grew up in Chicago within the bounds of the territorial parish (c. 1 sq. mile) there were eight ethnic parishes.

I hope this answer helps.

Wishing you success in your search,

Dave

rsowa

Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Replies: 173
Location: Dundee, Michigan, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: A quick question on sacramental records

dnowicki wrote:

Baptisms were supposed to take place in the parish where the parents resided.

How common was it for baptisms to happen at the parent's home, and then later be recorded at the appropriate parish? The reason I ask is because so many of my ancestral baptisms happened with a day or two of birth. I find it hard to imagine the mother, and newborn baby, traveling very far to the church so soon after birth.

dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: A quick question on sacramental records

rsowa wrote:

dnowicki wrote:

Baptisms were supposed to take place in the parish where the parents resided.

Richard,

Generally the only time a child was baptized at home was when the child was in distress (in periculo mortis/in danger of death). Although sometimes the priest baptized the child, more often it was the midwife who administered the sacrament. In those instances the baptism consisted of the pouring of water with the formula “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” All the surrounding ceremonies were omitted. If the child lived, he/she was brought to church at a later date. The ceremonies (like anointing with oil, presentation of the baptismal candle, etc.) which had been omitted at home were “supplied” at the church.

The mother of the newborn DID NOT attend the baptism. The child was brought to church by the father and the sponsors/godparents. The overriding concern was to make sure that the child was baptized soon after birth lest the child die without having been baptized. This concern overrode any difficulties involved in bringing the child to the church. The mother would show up at church (generally without the baby) for the first time about 40 days after having given birth for the “churching”/purification blessing—a carryover from Jewish Old Testament purification rituals.

As a side note...my late mother-in-law was a nurse and part of her training in nursing school involved how to baptize a child “in periculo mortis/in danger of death.” I would imagine that parish priests in Poland instructed midwives in a similar manner.

I hope this shed some light on the issue.

Dave

ossnhughie
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Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Replies: 353
Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Posted: Yesterday at 11:44 pm Post subject:

This is bizzare I just noticed that last year the guest named ewanchapman copied a question I posted in 2015 and re asked it in August 2019??? I wonder why this person did this?? Very odd see my original post:

ossnhughie wrote:

[/quote]
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marcelproust
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Location: Poland
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Posted: Yesterday at 11:57 pm Post subject:

ossnhughie wrote:

[/quote]

I think it was spam. I noticed that sometimes users appear in this forum who ask a question and disappear. I think it's spam.
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